LS II's - Not sounding as good as I thought

[russ69]

There is no way a LS would sound like a PA speaker. Sum Ting Wong....

[joshnich]

It was mentioned in an earlier response but I didn't see an answer. Have you checked the connections to make sure all drivers are in phase ? 

 

j

[ricktate]

I think we need a pic of your wiring hook ups on the back of the Scala. Nice room by the way.

[Marvel]

2 hours ago, ricktate said:

I think we need a pic of your wiring hook ups on the back of the Scala. Nice room by the way.

 

I think the LSII connections between the bass cab and top are on the top of the bass cab. You have to lift up/move the top section to check. Schu has a pair and could help here... if he checks out this thread.

 

Bruce

[Schu]

LSii connections  come down to the basscab from the top section... I think reversing phase would be difficult because they are color coded from the factory, but anything is possible.

 

I had similar (not the same) issues when I first got my speakers... they were strident and had extreme beaming issues. I took several steps to help alleviate the perceived issues that included repositioning the on axis, buy new premium crossovers, extensive retuning the eq and processing, and replacing the premium amplification I had been using.

 

My ultimate solution, run the system with little to no eq, add some tube gear and sit back and enjoy. As soon as I added my tube pre amp and removed my pioneer elite avr from pre pro duty my system took off and became quite good... even with the old class D  amplification. As soon as I added a tube amp, the system became sublime.

 

In fist post I quoted I think the issue is the processing AND amplification... I personally have never been happy with any emotiva component I have tried... they are not bad, specially for the price, they are just not the  sound I am looking for.

[PeteVoxx]

16 hours ago, pbphoto said:

Hmmm.  I'm at a loss.  Did you purchase them new?

Yep, they were purchased new just over a month ago.

[PeteVoxx]

8 hours ago, russ69 said:

There is no way a LS would sound like a PA speaker. Sum Ting Wong....

I agree - sum ting VERY wong!  That sound is very apparent when the bass cabs are not used.  The new LS II's (Not sure when they implemented this) are easily bi-amped and come with an "LF IN" and an "HF IN" binding posts that are bridged together.  If I disconnect the bridge wires and run only the HF cabs, the sound is horrendous.

 

[PeteVoxx]

2 hours ago, Schu said:

LSii connections  come down to the basscab from the top section... I think reversing phase would be difficult because they are color coded from the factory, but anything is possible.

 

I had similar (not the same) issues when I first got my speakers... they were strident and had extreme beaming issues. I took several steps to help alleviate the perceived issues that included repositioning the on axis, buy new premium crossovers, extensive retuning the eq and processing, and replacing the premium amplification I had been using.

 

My ultimate solution, run the system with little to no eq, add some tube gear and sit back and enjoy. As soon as I added my tube pre amp and removed my pioneer elite avr from pre pro duty my system took off and became quite good... even with the old class D  amplification. As soon as I added a tube amp, the system became sublime.

 

In fist post I quoted I think the issue is the processing AND amplification... I personally have never been happy with any emotiva component I have tried... they are not bad, specially for the price, they are just not the  sound I am looking for.

I've had both units for a couple of years and have driven everything (e.g. KG2s, Heresy II's, '78 La Scalas, RF7-II's, CW III's and now the LS II's).  The ONLY set of speakers I have that sounds poor are the new LS II's.

[PeteVoxx]

6 hours ago, ricktate said:

I think we need a pic of your wiring hook ups on the back of the Scala. Nice room by the way.

Thanks for the room compliment.  Nothing is out of phase though - I have triple checked.  The new LS II's come with two sets of binding posts on the rear of the HF cabinet.  These two sets of binding posts are bridged from the factory.  Those bridges are easily removed for bi-amping.  I have tried just connecting the HF cab and THAT is when they sound like a honky PA speaker from an ice cream truck! 

[PeteVoxx]

14 hours ago, pbphoto said:

I have H3's in a different room, voiced similarly to your CW3's afaik, and the H3's midrange and highs are more forward than my stock LS2's.  I can tell this both from listening and also the REW data measuring at 1M from the speakers shows this as well.  So my initial thought is that the LS2's are a more laid back presentation than what you are used to, but your other comments about sounding like an ice cream truck make me think there is something more serious going on.  The nutcrackers sitting on top of the LS2's can't be helping matters either :-)

This is beyond "laid back" - vocals and many instruments get completely lost and all volumes (worse as it gets louder) yet the EQ for these frequencies is at +6DB.  Every other high end Klipsch speaker I have always give a "wow" factor even at low volumes.  These just sound "ok" - nowhere near their retail price of $8k.  Quite frankly and speaking of tonal quality only, my Sonos Play5 sounds exponentially better.  Not even exaggerating.

[Kevin S]

Well, this is truly a mystery. I am half joking when I ask this, because I don't imagine they are, but are the speakers shipped with any type of protective foam that is placed in the horns or on the grill cloth that could still be in place?

[PeteVoxx]

8 minutes ago, Kevin S said:

Well, this is truly a mystery. I am half joking when I ask this, because I don't imagine they are, but are the speakers shipped with any type if protective foam that is placed in the horns or on the grill cloth that could still be in place?

Unfortunately not, but don't think I didn't check.  That's the impression given; as though they didn't use acoustically transparent grill cloth.

[babadono]

28 minutes ago, PeteVoxx said:

Unfortunately not, but don't think I didn't check.  That's the impression given; as though they didn't use acoustically transparent grill cloth.

Hmmmm... Have you checked the internal wiring in the tophat? Polarity connections of the mid and tweeter? Or just that the connections are good and solid? BTW I know nothing about LS IIs but have had the old ones for 35+ years.

[PeteVoxx]

3 minutes ago, babadono said:

Hmmmm... Have you checked the internal wiring in the tophat? Polarity connections of the mid and tweeter? Or just that the connections are good and solid? BTW I know nothing about LS IIs but have had the old ones for 35+ years.

No, I haven't checked internally yet.  I'll venture down that road when I get the new networks from Klipsch.  I don't want to disassemble/reassemble more than is absolutely necessary.  I would hope it's not something as simple as that.  You would think the folks working there know the proper procedure for assembly.  But, it does seem quality control is lacking as I have seen a few examples on some Facebook groups where members have had issues with either heritage series or even their palladium series.  Once the new networks come in, I will definitely update this post.  I appreciate any and all time and suggestions you guys have put in here.

[babadono]

^Stuff happens in shipping. Mysterious stuff even sometimes. But don't let Klipsch off the hook until you are 100% satisfied(ok 99.99%) I know perfection is not possible in this hobby.

[PeteVoxx]

3 minutes ago, babadono said:

^Stuff happens in shipping. Mysterious stuff even sometimes. But don't let Klipsch off the hook until you are 100% satisfied(ok 99.99%) I know perfection is not possible in this hobby.

I hear ya!  I was however 100% happy with my '78 La Scalas  

[Deang]

1) Turn Audyssey off and put the receiver in Direct Mode.

2) Power off the receiver.

3) Turn the LaScalas around and start tracing out the connections.

4) Make sure that someone at the factory didn't inadvertently reverse the midrange and tweeter connections.

5) The network should be marked, showing which driver connects to which contacts.

6) If the wires are reversed, then your tweeters may be blown (but maybe not, because of the polyswitch/tweeter protection).

7) High frequencies for the tweeter will also be coming out of the midrange horn -- and the overall sound will be very much as you're describing.

8) If the wiring checks out, then in all likelihood, Klipsch sent out a pair with bad tweeters. This has happened quite a few times, which is why I was such an *** about it in the Klipsch Owners Group on Facebook.

[wvu80]

4 hours ago, PeteVoxx said:

 If I disconnect the bridge wires and run only the HF cabs, the sound is horrendous.

 

Something is dreadfully wrong.  (duh)

 

You have done all the troubleshooting I may have suggested, you were very thorough.  Even if the speaker wires were reversed you would still get a pretty good sound, not a horrible sound.  You have enough good stuff to know good sound from bad.

 

I'll tell you what, it really sounds like the HF and the LF crossovers have been mixed up, and have been REVERSED to the drivers.  The entire HF signal is going to the woofers, and the reverse.

 

I did that once on a DIY project I had, and that is exactly the kind of sound you are describing.

 

Have you posted a close up clear picture of your XO yet?  I'm not smart enough to trace the wiring to the correct components, but I bet somebody here is.

[zobsky]

5 minutes ago, wvu80 said:

Something is dreadfully wrong.  (duh)

 

You have done all the troubleshooting I may have suggested, you were very thorough.  Even if the speaker wires were reversed you would still get a pretty good sound, not a horrible sound.  You have enough good stuff to know good sound from bad.

 

I'll tell you what, it really sounds like the HF and the LF crossovers have been mixed up, and have been REVERSED to the drivers.

 

I did that once on a DIY project I had, and that is exactly the kind of sound you are describing.

 

Have you posted a close up clear picture of your XO yet?  I'm not smart enough to trace the wiring to the correct components, but I bet somebody here is.

 

Play some test tones , say 100 Hz, 600 Hz and 5KHz and figure out which driver emits those sounds (should be woofer, midrange and tweeter respectively).

 

Do this with each speaker individually

 

FWIW, I use spotify for casual listening and there are actually playlists made up of test tone tracks - useful for this kind of exercise.

 

[Marvel]

4 hours ago, PeteVoxx said:

I agree - sum ting VERY wong!  That sound is very apparent when the bass cabs are not used.  The new LS II's (Not sure when they implemented this) are easily bi-amped and come with an "LF IN" and an "HF IN" binding posts that are bridged together.  If I disconnect the bridge wires and run only the HF cabs, the sound is horrendous.

 

 

Of course they would sound bad if you didn't connect the bass cabs. Why would you even do that if you weren't biamping or going active?