Zen Traveler Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 13 minutes ago, CECAA850 said: You enjoying yourself on facebook has nothing to do with what some children have to endure there. Whoa! I only commented on my experience with FB because it was surprisingly good given I only got on it a month ago and have always thought negatively about it! What you describe has been going on for years and agree it is a destructive byproduct of having so much freedom. Otoh, what has come out about how much targeted propaganda folks got in the guise of "News" is equally troubling since our own government is looking into that aspect as well. I am on your side in regard to what troubles you and hope you understand my perspective on what is at the very least just as important if not more so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 59 minutes ago, USNRET said: I disagree to a point. There is discipline in my home....none at school. Ah! Now, we might be getting somewhere. School policy today shuns fighting at all costs. Can you imagine having to raise a kid to never even bother to try and fight back when adequately provoked? That's just not right. IMO, sand box fights were just part of growing up and figuring out that showing disrespect will get your a$$ kicked. I don't have kids, but if I did, I would tell him/her, "Use good judgment and stick up for yourself when you have to. I'll deal with the schools." 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arrow#422 Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 4 minutes ago, Jeff Matthews said: Ah! Now, we might be getting somewhere. School policy today shuns fighting at all costs. Can you imagine having to raise a kid to never even bother to try and fight back when adequately provoked? That's just not right. IMO, sand box fights were just part of growing up and figuring out that showing disrespect will get your a$$ kicked. I don't have kids, but if I did, I would tell him/her, "Use good judgment and stick up for yourself when you have to. I'll deal with the schools." Which is exactly what I eluded to 6 and 11 posts prior. HOLD the socitetal institutions accountable or be over-run by their policies. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 3 minutes ago, Arrow#422 said: Which is exactly what I eluded to 6 and 11 posts prior. HOLD the socitetal institutions accountable or be over-run by their policies. Yes. I replied before I read yours and others like it. Seems we have a lot of agreement here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 20 minutes ago, Jeff Matthews said: Whatever it is, they'll have to change it themselves because there isn't a whole lot we can do about it. This generations children grew up differently than ours and have been manipulated by different forces. Remember playboy? Tame as shit to what pretty much everyone has free access to today...That said, it also appears that the #metoo movement is countering to that aspect of society that is changing. 21 minutes ago, Jeff Matthews said: Is it just a fad, kind of like Elvis Presley and acid (not at the same time, lol)? Whatever it is, they'll have to change it themselves because there isn't a whole lot we can do about it. No. They didn't happen at the same time an having grown up at the end of one of those generations and graduated in the middle of the other will say what has changes is that all throughout that period guns were used mainly for hunting. Nowadays more purchase it for self-defense and in most cases the best benefit is piece of mind--On the flipside those purchasing for those reasons are also the ones taking their own lives with the weapon when you look at the stats. Guns are the most efficient way to kill a person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 22 minutes ago, Arrow#422 said: Which is exactly what I eluded to 6 and 11 posts prior. HOLD the socitetal institutions accountable or be over-run by their policies. I am in agreement with you and Jeff. The Government should make laws and keep to the letter and intent of them once they are enacted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 1 minute ago, Zen Traveler said: I am in agreement with you and Jeff in this if you mean Government. Make laws and keep to the letter and intent of them once they are enacted. Nope. We are saying kids should be able to "solve" these bullying problems by using reasonable force, despite a school's "zero-tolerance" policy. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arrow#422 Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 13 minutes ago, Zen Traveler said: This generations children grew up differently than ours and have been manipulated by different forces. Remember playboy? Tame as shit to what pretty much everyone has free access to today...That said, it also appears that the #metoo movement is countering to that aspect of society that is changing. No. They didn't happen at the same time an having grown up at the end of one of those generations and graduated in the middle of the other will say what has changes is that all throughout that period guns were used mainly for hunting. Nowadays more purchase it for self-defense and in most cases the best benefit is piece of mind--On the flipside those purchasing for those reasons are also the ones taking their own lives with the weapon when you look at the stats. Guns are the most efficient way to kill a person. How to eliminate the physical issue short term: 1 way bus tickets to unknown regions, or free, small caliber firearms? Antactica is not a viable option, and Australia was already the recipient of many not seen as socially acceptable. Might this be the <real> reason behind space travel? Either escape our current predicament, or send the offenders to the moon, mars, etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 2 hours ago, USNRET said: and before you accuse me of racism call and get to know me. Good advice. It seems that often times many people here just read the words without trying to rationalize the thought behind those words. It's hard to express a thought or opinion here without typing 3 pages in order for other readers to understand one's thoughts on a given subject. Usually posts are just read and responded to without thought or request for clarification. It' easier to just to pass judgment and call the person "AN IDIOT". Keith 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max2 Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 IMO, we are now living in a "synthetic" society in the US. Accountability may be understood in your home, but not so much in most schools and elsewhere. The Net allows kids to get away with just about anything, its kinds of like yelling bad things to someone else down the street in your safety shell, yet everyone in the school can here it. Most here got bullied growing up. Heck, I just wanted to be 5 feet tall in the 6th or 7th grade (can't remember), but I got carried to the dumpster a time or three by some hoodlums and looking back it was like a scene that was cut out of Back to the future involving McFly. I didn't like it, but it sure built character and Im somewhat thankful for it. I see no problem with people marching for stiffer gun laws or even raising the age to 21 or even higher. Do I think it will stop any of this? No. A few decades ago, everyone I knew had a gun cabinet full of shotguns, 270's, 30-06's, 30-30's etc. etc. No one even considered an Assault rifle back then, it would have raised eyebrows unless it was some sort of war relic passed down. Todays AR or AK is nothing like is was yesteryear. So many accessories, custom toolers, clubs, societies, you name it. Its a way of life for some. Sadly with kids raising themselves and no active parent to step up and say "hell no," We have made this image as cool as a Chesterfield King on a Saturday night in the mid 50's. Now we have streamlined the acceptance of the of true war weapons. Some have idolized our men in service (for the wrong reasons) that use these tools to go after the bad guys a long way from our borders by creating movies, sinister video games, so on and so on. There just is no value in the games, just endless lives, attempts and hitting reset. I have a safe with quite a few long guns and pistols and intend on raising my young son with the respect and guidance like my father did introducing them. I was scared of my Dad 40 years ago, when he said something you did it right then, my son, not so much. I must be a lot more laid back, but this does concern me about the how my precious bottle of "wine" is going to age.... It is America, thank goodness. You need a suit that looks like a woman privates or hat for some cause and feel like you need to march in it and get your pic on FB? Go for it. You want to march for getting rid of guns, but a transparent back pack crosses the line for your rights? , Go for it. You think the world is full of whiners and beechers that constantly need to take a very irrational approach for change, while overlooking HUGE problems involving deaths literally every second of the day? Well get in line Mr. Realist 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woofers and Tweeters Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 It is mind-blowing to me how the NRA and law abiding citizens are blamed. Several are saying that the NRA wants dead children. What I don't understand is why the protesters don't see the law abiding gun owners, the NRA, gun manufacturers and suppliers have even more reason for mass shootings to stop: They don’t want people murdered just as much as anyone else and they don’t want laws to change that would keep people from buying, owning, selling and enjoying the hobby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillyBob Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 I think the problem began when we started seeing both parents needing to work to support the family and/or single parent families. Who's home with the kids? TV, computer ..... "Social" media? A person can find support for any idea, no matter how stupid Cactus jumping, the cinnamon challenge, the flame challenge ... need I list more kids still get dumb ideas. They NEED an adult to temper some of that. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjptkd Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 I agree there should be plenty of outrage to go around over these senseless shootings and if getting out there and waving a sign around makes people feel better I'm all for it. What I don't agree with is school administrators marching kindergarteners out there like they have an opinion either way, that is pure government indoctrination and adults should be equally outraged that our government is teaching these kids that giving up essentials liberties is good idea. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 We've been letting this discussion go on but let's keep politics out of it. Yes, I hid the previous post for those keeping track. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richieb Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 It's the "no consequence" generation - no ones at fault, everyone's at fault, no one wins, no one loses. Feelings are hurt? Give those hurt a "safe space" and those who dealt those hurt feelings a social media finger wagging. As long as everyone remains on the same level playing field and both winners and losers receive their "participation trophy" all is right with the PC world. Stray off the drawn line in the sand and the do gooders pop their heads out like snails on a wave receding beach. Fearing the world my pre-school Grandkids are growing into is now an actual concern, not just generational cliche. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 12 hours ago, Jeff Matthews said: 12 hours ago, Zen Traveler said: I am in agreement with you and Jeff in this if you mean Government. Make laws and keep to the letter and intent of them once they are enacted. Nope. We are saying kids should be able to "solve" these bullying problems by using reasonable force, despite a school's "zero-tolerance" policy. I guess we are talking about two different things. I totally agree what you guys are saying and feel once parents get involved these policies will change. You said if you had kids you would get involved and you can't be the only conscientious wannabe or actual parent that gets involved. Honestly, this is the first I've heard of it and I teach martial arts for a living. What I was getting at was that our government should make sensible gun laws and what these students and adults who agree with them are saying is what I typed in the above quote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 12 hours ago, Arrow#422 said: Either escape our current predicament, or send the offenders to the moon, mars, etc? I vote on start trying to change the dynamics and who has been historically responsible for not accepting the changing situation since the 2nd Amendment was written...I think this could be the actual starting point to "escape our current predicament." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 9 hours ago, Max2 said: It is America, thank goodness. You need a suit that looks like a woman privates or hat for some cause and feel like you need to march in it and get your pic on FB? Go for it. You want to march for getting rid of guns, but a transparent back pack crosses the line for your rights? , Go for it. You think the world is full of whiners and beechers that constantly need to take a very irrational approach for change, while overlooking HUGE problems involving deaths literally every second of the day? Well get in line Mr. Realist Fwiw, what one considers "irrational" is another persons free speech and something my father taught me was to put yourself in the other person's shoes if you want to learn something....Just sayin'. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 7 hours ago, Woofers and Tweeters said: It is mind-blowing to me how the NRA and law abiding citizens are blamed. Honestly, I think the NRA puts themselves in the crosshairs and have more influence than they deserve. That said, I realize that there are groups like that on all sides of any political discussion. Again, it's all opinion until someone pulls the trigger in your presence... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 4 hours ago, jjptkd said: adults should be equally outraged that our government is teaching these kids that giving up essentials liberties is good idea. I don't think that is happening. What I do think is going on is a rational discussion started by the next generation on where they want to see their country go on this issue. My guess is a lot of the students have a better (or at least as good of) grasp of history and the Constitution than the adults they are trying to convince. There are some VERY smart kids out there and some are barely getting out of Jr High with the insight of those of us that graduated many decades ago....I agree that social media can have some major negative side effects but these kids/students are growing up in The Information Age! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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