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bandit88

Did I get the holy grail of Heresy 1s? And possible issues

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Yesterday I drove 9 hours and picked up my first set of Heresies, and actually my first set of heritage series.  They are 1979 Persian Nut and are stunning!  Practically mint all the way around and inside out.  The crossovers were rebuilt with the Crites kit about a month ago.  I have never seen a nice looking speaker.  I cannot find any reference out there to a set with this finish.  Has anyone seen a set of these before?  Is there anyway to find out how many were ordered with that finish?

 

As for the sound,  I am coming from a set of KG 4.2s that have Mundorf caps, mills resistors, and the Crites diaphragms.  The Heresies are clearer sounding and they really shine with some songs but seem to get overwhelmed and muddy with most.  I am thinking something is not right here as my KGs play everything flawless, and the Hereies seem to have a better reputation.  Is this a sign that the mid K-55-v diaphragm needs replacement or something else.  So far in testing I have listened mostly classic rock,  Pink Floyd, Grateful Deal, Fleetwood Mac, Dire Straits, Steely Dan, Chicago, and lots of other stuff.  My music is mostly flacs ripped from CDs playing through Roon, and my turntable.  I find it hard to believe that these would have the reputation that they have with what I am hearing and want to get them to 100%.  

 

Thanks

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h12.jpg

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Quite stunning!

 

@HDBRbuilder might be able to tell you more about how many were made in Persian Nut while he was there building them.

 

@JRH The Historian may also have some information about that finish, or you can ask in the "Ask the Historian Section."

 

As to sound, I will let the others who have had Kg4.2 and H1s chime in on what they experienced the difference to be.  

 

Travis

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Beautiful!  As to the sound, I'd recheck the crossover.  There have been a few reports of the autoformer having loose windings or something and testing poorly.  I think fad of replacing diaphragms is an unnecessary expense, particularly with the k-55s. 

 

You CAN improve your tweeter with a K-77-M.  The improved magnet gets better vhf response and the revised diaphragm tolerates more power.  A Fastrac tweeter horn on a B&C DE120 is a smooth, silky upgrade.  It's mouth is flush with the cabinet, a further improvement. 

 

If you can find K-55-Vs with solder terminals, you can improve the squawker's  response, esp. above 5k.  post-2142-13819498806984_thumb.gif

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Congratulations, those are quite a find!  I would definitely first check the crossovers and make sure that they were constructed correctly, especially since you say they were rebuilt with the Crites kit.  Check for cold solder joints, etc.  Secondly, be sure the inputs/outputs of the crossovers are correct.  Check to ensure that all of the drivers are actually working, plug the mids/tweeters with a sock or something and listen to be sure of each functionality.  And check the connectors on each driver.  Then if possible, set your amp to mono and listen for differences between left and right channels.  Overwhelmed and muddied is not an attribute I would normally associate with Heresys in good shape for sure.  Keep us posted please!  Thanks.

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Yea check all connections and screw terminals.....Make sure the mid driver has good washer and is tight to horn. On my 1s i reinforced the back panel with a smaller piece of ply on the inside and put seal tape around the edge . Got a pic of crossover we might tell if its wired correctly. Here is a schematic of H1.  Also pic of the tag on the back.TypeE.jpg

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Thanks everyone. I will take a closer look at the crossovers later today.  Here is a pic of the back tag as well as one of the crossovers that I took yesterday.  I will let you guys know what I find!

 

 

h14.jpg

h15.jpg

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Persian Nutwood, was offered for a very short time.  It is actually some kind of African wood which is extremely blonde, but the logs are treated with a dye under pressure to bring out the grain....that dye determines the coloration of that grain-darkening.  Klipsch had panels veneered in two basic colors of that grain-darkening dye, one was a deep reddish tint, and the other was blue/purple tint.  IN-HOUSE we called the blue-purple tinted veneer Persian Nutwood, and the dark red tinted veneer was called "Rambling Rose".

 

This stuff came in and the honchos thought it would sell like hotcakes, but it seems that we only got special orders for speakers in that veneer.  And the number of orders had the honchos realizing that it would simply NOT be a big seller.  So, it was only offered for around one year or so.  Many people liked them, but they apparently decided that the grain patterns were just "too loud" to go with other wooden furniture available for the room the speakers would be in...so sales lagged most likely due to low WAF. 

 

Yours are what we called "Rambling Rose". 

 

The rear speaker panel in the pic you posted is mounted upside-down from how it left the factory.  It may have been removed and re-mounted so that the terminals ended up being closer to the floor.

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6 minutes ago, HDBRbuilder said:

Persian Nutwood, was offered for a very short time.  It is actually some kind of African wood which is extremely blonde, but the logs are treated with a dye under pressure to bring out the grain....that dye determines the coloration of that grain-darkening.  Klipsch had panels veneered in two basic colors of that grain-darkening dye, one was a deep reddish tint, and the other was blue/purple tint.  IN-HOUSE we called the blue-purple tinted veneer Persian Nutwood, and the dark red tinted veneer was called "Rambling Rose".

 

This stuff came in and the honchos thought it would sell like hotcakes, but it seems that we only got special orders for speakers in that veneer.  And the number of orders had the honchos realizing that it would simply NOT be a big seller.  So, it was only offered for around one year or so.  Many people liked them, but they apparently decided that the grain patterns were just "too loud" to go with other wooden furniture available for the room the speakers would be in...so sales lagged most likely due to low WAF. 

 

Yours are what we called "Rambling Rose". 

 

The rear speaker panel in the pic you posted is mounted upside-down from how it left the factory.  It may have been removed and re-mounted so that the terminals ended up being closer to the floor.

 

Andy, this is the second set of labels i've seen recently that has the letter G in it. PNGL   what does the G stand for.

thanks, Russ

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bandit,  you did get the holy grail of speakers. CONGRATS and hold on to those

first set of persian nut i've seen on a heresy. another forum member has it on his cornwalls and another forum member has it on his k-horns

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The solder jobs from the caps to wire does not inspire a lot of confidence from me.....Looks like you've got lots of room to play with, I would redo all of those connections.

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42 minutes ago, Budman said:

 

Andy, this is the second set of labels i've seen recently that has the letter G in it. PNGL   what does the G stand for.

thanks, Russ

No real idea but guessing G=Gloss and L=Lacquer. 1st picture the tops looks shiny/glossy.

 

@bandit88 Those are really nice looking. Nice score! 

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50 minutes ago, HDBRbuilder said:

Persian Nutwood, was offered for a very short time.  It is actually some kind of African wood which is extremely blonde, but the logs are treated with a dye under pressure to bring out the grain....that dye determines the coloration of that grain-darkening.  Klipsch had panels veneered in two basic colors of that grain-darkening dye, one was a deep reddish tint, and the other was blue/purple tint.  IN-HOUSE we called the blue-purple tinted veneer Persian Nutwood, and the dark red tinted veneer was called "Rambling Rose".

 

This stuff came in and the honchos thought it would sell like hotcakes, but it seems that we only got special orders for speakers in that veneer.  And the number of orders had the honchos realizing that it would simply NOT be a big seller.  So, it was only offered for around one year or so.  Many people liked them, but they apparently decided that the grain patterns were just "too loud" to go with other wooden furniture available for the room the speakers would be in...so sales lagged most likely due to low WAF. 

 

Yours are what we called "Rambling Rose". 

 

The rear speaker panel in the pic you posted is mounted upside-down from how it left the factory.  It may have been removed and re-mounted so that the terminals ended up being closer to the floor.

 

 

Thanks for the info.  I turned the back panel back to the correct orientation.  Is there anyway to find out how many were made with this finish?  Also, any idea what the grill fabric is called?

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28 minutes ago, jimjimbo said:

The solder jobs from the caps to wire does not inspire a lot of confidence from me.....Looks like you've got lots of room to play with, I would redo all of those connections.

I just took a closer look and the solder joints and they are mega cruddy.  Some of them only have a couple strands soldered to the cap wire.  Im surprised anyone would find this work acceptable enough to decide that its ready to listen to.  I have a good feeling this is the issue.

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8 minutes ago, bandit88 said:

I just took a closer look and the solder joints and they are mega cruddy.  Some of them only have a couple strands soldered to the cap wire.  Im surprised anyone would find this work acceptable enough to decide that its ready to listen to.  I have a good feeling this is the issue.

Excellent, glad you took a closer look.

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5 hours ago, Budman said:

 

Andy, this is the second set of labels i've seen recently that has the letter G in it. PNGL   what does the G stand for.

thanks, Russ

PNGL=Persian Nutwood Gloss Laquer

Klipsch started using "GL" for gloss laquer on some items while I was still there, but they had previously just used "L" for that.  It seems it may have had something to do with them differentiating between gloss laquer and semi-gloss laquer, since they eventually started offering that as a special order option.  I prefer semi-gloss to gloss, myself.  But the folks in the paint department DID NOT, simply because they had to shoot it either first thing in the morning, or last thing in the evening....because they had to clean out the paint gun THOROUGHLY both before and after using the semi-gloss...due to its having fine silica in it.  Not only that, but they had to ensure that they had thoroughly stirred the semigloss to get all of that silica in it into solution completely, AND keep shaking the spray gun between shootings, so that there was no difference in the "semi-glossiness" for the entire speaker pair.  Semi-gloss is just much more of a hassle when trying to get things RIGHT, ya'know?

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4 hours ago, bandit88 said:

 

 

Thanks for the info.  I turned the back panel back to the correct orientation.  Is there anyway to find out how many were made with this finish?  Also, any idea what the grill fabric is called?

Maybe you can ask that question to Jim Hunter, he may have some data on it.

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I asked a similar question on a pair of MEL Heresys and never heard back.

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Definitely keepers!  Fix the crossovers and enjoy.  These and the MEL CECAA850 have are two of the nicest I've seen anywhere.

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Thanks everyone.  I just redid the solder joints and they sound much better!  The mid bass is what I expected where as before it was pretty weak.  I didnt notice any muddiness except for a little bit when playing a Foo Fighters LP.  I tried a different Foo Fighters LP that is a 45 and it was better so it may just be the recording.  Everything else I listened to was gold and the trumpets in Chicago songs are breathtaking.  I am going to continue to go though these to make sure they are 100%.  Is there a way to test the autoformer?  

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56 minutes ago, CECAA850 said:

I asked a similar question on a pair of MEL Heresys and never heard back.

Hunter got to Klipsch a year or two after I got there in 1976, but he was there the entire time the Persian Nutwood stuff was being made, so maybe he remembers stuff I don't.

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