Heresy IV

[billybob]

More direct then regarding the base, or riser angle, I take it that

this can be placed on a speaker stand, with or without removing same. Another way of putting it is,

can riser be readily removed? 

 

[pzannucci]

12 minutes ago, billybob said:

I would venture to say that the 2 functions, that of releiving cabinet pressure and tuning frequency are inseparable and dependent upon the other. Subtle point taken and clear ...thanks

Correct though my worry is too much relief.  Basically at what frequency does the woofer unload so a filter may be necessary with some music at certain volumes to avoid over excursion.

[billybob]

15 minutes ago, pzannucci said:

Correct though my worry is too much relief.  Basically at what frequency does the woofer unload so a filter may be necessary with some music at certain volumes to avoid over excursion.

Would like to think that this has been taken into consideration and

accounted for. Point taken and noteworthy. Thanks

[Don Richard]

High pass filters are difficult ($$$) to implement in a passive crossover. An active HP filter, or "rumble filter" for vinyl, is necessary for ported cabinets.

[OO1]

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[billybob]

Simply judging after a healthy workout with the Heresy, any bass/drum extra extension added to the equation, this IV should be a welcome addition to 2 channel purists, or those who may seek to augment such with a sub.

Looking forward to review...

[pzannucci]

On 12/22/2019 at 12:09 AM, Randyh said:

klipsch has 3 of these on the CW IV  , and 1  only at the rear for the Heresy IV -both parts are identical  -

 

Here is what they call them :

 

TRACTRIX® PORTS Utilizing Tractrix geometry, the all new Cornwall IV ports allow for the most efficient, fastest air transfer in their class, which reduces port noise for punchier low frequencies. Klipsch Tractrix ports have custom designed inner flares that help reduce air turbulence entering the port. Less turbulent air helps reduce port noise for cleaner, more powerful bass.

Flared port with a tractrix curve.  Not sure it sounds any better than any other of the curved entry ports but matches their technology presence. 

[pzannucci]

On 12/22/2019 at 12:11 AM, billybob said:

Simply judging after a healthy workout with the Heresy, any bass/drum extra extension added to the equation, this IV should be a welcome addition to 2 channel purists, or those who may seek to augment such with a sub.

Looking forward to review...

Yes would love to hear them though I would probably mate them with subs.  Have an XSP-1 so would likely cross around 50hz to avoid worry on the woofers when listening loud (which I never do 😏)

[DizRotus]

On 11/27/2019 at 6:31 PM, ClaudeJ1 said:

Yep, once you have subwoofers, especially horn loaded ones, you never go back.

 

I agree about subs.

 

First, I’m sure Heresy IVs sound superior to my DIY Super Heresys, but not enough to justify the expense difference, IMO.  My whole system, including 4 DIY Exodus Anarchy Tapped Horn subs powered by a pair of iNuke 1000dsp amps, a DIY TPA3255EVM Class-D based amp, and a Pono player cost me about as much as one new H4.  That said, I feel the with/without sub comparison is valid, if not perfect.

 

Without the subs, my “Supers” sound very good to me, and even more so to others.  You don’t miss subs.  But, add in the four TH subs flat to 25Hz and you feel bass you thought you heard without the subs.  The difference is even more startling when the subs are removed mid-song.  Even those with little or no interest in audio recognize the difference and prefer the sound with subs.

 

After extracting acknowledgements from friends and family that subs fill in something missing with “Supers” alone, I turn off the 3255 leaving only the four TH subs.  The audible output from the subs alone is minimal.  It seems impossible that they can make such a difference.  IMO, if you are aware of subs as a sound source, they’re too much.

 

I Hope Klipsch sells H4s as quickly as they can make them.  The majority of the owners will be satisfied without subs.  IMO, the relatively few who add a quality sub(s) — horn or TH — will enjoy a small, but genuine, improvement.

 

 

[ClaudeJ1]

2 hours ago, DizRotus said:

 

I agree about subs.

 

First, I’m sure Heresy IVs sound superior to my DIY Super Heresys, but not enough to justify the expense difference, IMO.  My whole system, including 4 DIY Exodus Anarchy Tapped Horn subs powered by a pair of iNuke 1000dsp amps, a DIY TPA3255EVM Class-D based amp, and a Pono player cost me about as much as one new H4.  That said, I feel the with/without sub comparison is valid, if not perfect.

 

Without the subs, my “Supers” sound very good to me, and even more so to others.  You don’t miss subs.  But, add in the four TH subs flat to 25Hz and you feel bass you thought you heard without the subs.  The difference is even more startling when the subs are removed mid-song.  Even those with little or no interest in audio recognize the difference and prefer the sound with subs.

 

After extracting acknowledgements from friends and family that subs fill in something missing with “Supers” alone, I turn off the 3255 leaving only the four TH subs.  The audible output from the subs alone is minimal.  It seems impossible that they can make such a difference.  IMO, if you are aware of subs as a sound source, they’re too much.

 

I Hope Klipsch sells H4s as quickly as they can make them.  The majority of the owners will be satisfied without subs.  IMO, the relatively few who add a quality sub(s) — horn or TH — will enjoy a small, but genuine, improvement.

 

 

As to the IV's sounding superior to modded Heresy 1's, or built from scratch in your case, both being ported, with better tweeters, and similar midrange horns/drivers, I'm sure they would be closer to each other than an un-modded 40 year old Heresy 1's with K22's that were designed for sealed cabinets! Of course, brand new Heresy IV's would be "prettier," which when there is WAF or GAF involved, that would be the clincher unless they are penny pinchers (I could not resist the rhyme).

 

I heard your setup, Diz, and I agree that once you turn off the subs, you see what's missing, but if you walk into a room, and the Supers Heresys are playing without subs, you don't know what you are missing yet, until you turn them on and off, since the SH's are pretty flat to 50 Hz. I think the main performance advantage of the Heresys over the Khorns is their Phase Coherence. This type of demo was also true when I heard $500,000 Wilson xVx's with and without subs about a month ago. The subs are an expensive "nuance" relative to the rest of the system in amplifier power and cubic feet of space, but still better than no subs. I do practice what I preach, since I gave up my Jubilees so I would have room for subs in my small living room. Let there be LOW BASS, when the program calls for it, and let there be none when none is called for. But if you don't have it, you never know what your are missing.

 

I recommended Heresy's to a friend, which he purchased in 1977, the same year I got my first pair of Khorns. He went on vacation, so let me borrow them for a few weeks. When they were on top of the Khorns, playing at a robust level with a slight "2 o'clock" bass boost on my McIntosh pre amp, people that walked into the room thought the Khorns were on. It really blew their minds when I told them if was the "little ones" making all the great music!! That alone should explain the FACT that the Heresy save Klipsch and Associates from going out of business. If the only products they had were corner horns, they would have been a mere footnote in audio history rather than a successful speaker company for over 7 decades!! All I can say is Paul was RIGHT!

 

I think JimJimbo had similar reactions with my ORIGINAL pair of Supber Heresys (the porting requires no bass boost) sitting on top of Khorns in his demo room. If you don't know which is which, you can be fooled for a minute, and that, in itself, is pretty impressive.

[OO1]

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[ClaudeJ1]

5 minutes ago, Randyh said:

what  did you use as components  to make your " DIY Super Heresys, "    ?  , I am just wondering -

 

for the H IV   klipsch opted to make the cab higher by an inch  not to alter their jigs too much   /higher grilles -motor board -vertical panels and that extra inch gives them room to add  a rear port  improving low frequency extension by almost 10Hz, for room filling bass  - ok  , so my guess is that any H1-H2-H3 could benefit by adding that rear port and  the K28 4 ohms woofer - a couple of years ago , I bought a brand new pair of k28  , they dont have a huge magnet , they are not cast frames , the cone is different -

I did some computer modeling of the box, with the chosen port, and the chosen woofer(s) were optimum for that Heresy 1 box, strictly. It was applied science, measurements, and listening, which sounded better than I ever thought it would. Simple, effective, and successful among many "Klipscheads." It has been an improvement to an old, used box, and NOT a brand new product, like the Heresy IV.

[OO1]

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[ClaudeJ1]

Just now, Randyh said:

Claude your super heresy idea did not fall on deaf ears , the new HIV is a mild super heresy ,  the idea is the same , more bass - The question is -----will there be a super -HIV PRO VERSION -

I'm note sure to whose ears you are referring, but I'm not a manager at Klipsch to know what's next. Just an amateur, like most here.

[Dave A]

4 minutes ago, Randyh said:

what  did you use as components  to make your " DIY Super Heresys, "    ?  , I am just wondering -

 

for the H IV   klipsch opted to make the cab higher by an inch  not to alter their jigs too much   /higher grilles -motor board -vertical panels and that extra inch gives them room to add  a rear port  improving low frequency extension by almost 10Hz, for room filling bass  - ok  , so my guess is that any H1-H2-H3 could benefit by adding that rear port and  the K28 4 ohms woofer - a couple of years ago , I bought a brand new pair of k28  , they dont have a huge magnet , they are not cast frames , the cone is different -

There is a big thread here on Super Heresy's and you go there and read it you will see what was done and components used. Regarding the extra inch in the cabinet I would imagine it was done for acoustic reasons and not to fit a port in. Roy carefully makes a system that is an aggregate of choices to arrive at a specific result and jigs and fixtures are, I am certain, not any part of the equation..

[DizRotus]

4 minutes ago, Randyh said:

what  did you use as components  to make your " DIY Super Heresys, "    ?  , I am just wondering.

 

The details are chronicled here:

I am still deciding whether to use the tweeters from the KP-201s, now with  Crites titanium diaphragms, or Crites CT-120s.  They sound comparable to me, each superior to K-77s.  

 

The plan is to refurbish  a pair of HIPs and convert them to “Supers.”  The CT-120s will go into those.  I don’t expect there to be much difference between the two versions.  One pair will stay and the other pair will go.  In any case, a pair of fully functional Alnico K-77s from the HIPs is available for $100 shipped to 48 states.

[OO1]

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[ClaudeJ1]

5 minutes ago, Randyh said:

the rear port is a port ,  klipsch calls these TRACTRIX  ports   :

 

TRACTRIX® PORTSFor the first time in its long legacy, the Heresy now features a rear port – improving low frequency extension by almost 10Hz, for room filling bass. Utilizing Tractrix geometry, the all new Heresy IV ports allow for the most efficient, fastest air transfer in their class, which reduces port noise for punchier low frequencies. Klipsch Tractrix ports have custom designed inner flares that help reduce air turbulence entering the port. Less turbulent air helps reduce port noise for cleaner, more powerful bass

 

https://f072605def1c9a5ef179-a0bc3fbf1884fc0965506ae2b946e1cd.ssl.cf2.rackcdn.com/product-specsheets/Heresy-IV-Spec-Sheet-v03.pdf

 

and  lets not forget that the CW IV has 3 of these identical ports  in the frontal area -

 

https://www.klipsch.ca/products/cornwall-iv-floorstanding-speaker

IMHO, the flared ports (I use them too) are 95% Marketing, and 5% performance differential over pure cylindrical tubes or shelves. As PWK might have said "not a dime's worth of difference," similar to when I asked him why they were using Monster Cable in 1985 Khorn Networks, his reply: "It's from our marketing people, it's a waste of good copper just to drive a 30 AWG voice coil."

 

But I do admit that they look very COOL cosmetically speaking!

[Dave A]

1 minute ago, Randyh said:

the rear port is a port ,  klipsch calls these TRACTRIX  ports   :

 

TRACTRIX® PORTSFor the first time in its long legacy, the Heresy now features a rear port – improving low frequency extension by almost 10Hz, for room filling bass. Utilizing Tractrix geometry, the all new Heresy IV ports allow for the most efficient, fastest air transfer in their class, which reduces port noise for punchier low frequencies. Klipsch Tractrix ports have custom designed inner flares that help reduce air turbulence entering the port. Less turbulent air helps reduce port noise for cleaner, more powerful bass

 

https://f072605def1c9a5ef179-a0bc3fbf1884fc0965506ae2b946e1cd.ssl.cf2.rackcdn.com/product-specsheets/Heresy-IV-Spec-Sheet-v03.pdf

 

and  lets not forget that the CW IV has 3 of these identical ports  in the frontal area -

 

https://www.klipsch.ca/products/cornwall-iv-floorstanding-speaker

According to what I remember Roy saying about that port. It does have a tractix flare around the perimeter and so is not very large and it is on both ends of the port tube. I think besides the fact it was a port that does what ports do there was a slight increase in efficiency due to the tractix flare and yes no one else has done that I know of. Rounded corners yes but not tractix corners. Every bit does add up though. Marketing dudes have to sound special when they describe things and the big deal here is the port size and length and the far lesser deal is the shape of the curved entry and exit edges.

[OO1]

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