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Foxman

Any Knife guys?

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On 2/11/2021 at 4:50 PM, Foxman said:

I have gotten into smoking meat this year and am considering upgrading my cutlery which is currently old, dull, and crappy. Curious if anyone makes knives or knows about knives? I am in the learning process. I have learned about D2 steel and 1095 steel. Anyone?

 

Remember that all of the big Names have low end garbage lines of products that are near worthless, better to have one good knife than 20 worthless ones. Also see where they are made, the Germans actually opened or purchased companies in Japan for making Santuko knives etc.

 

Victronix has a good budget line a lot of people like, the Swiss army knife guys

MAC are good, Japan but not cheap 50-100

several others

 

 

The "German Design" Meat Knives aka Chef's Knives are excellent for meat and lots of other stuff

The Grey Metal is superior where it counts, cutting, sharp edge and holding the edge, but it rusts if you leave it wet

Never leave in the sink or put in the dishwasher, never use an electric sharpener, it will ruin the knives.

The French make some excellent Grey Metal German Knives, Sabatier from France not Chinese Knocks offs sold on Amazon

S Carolina company is the reseller for both K and 5 Star, you can find them easily

 

I have a lot of knives, this 8 inch one is my go to knife for every meal

I also have it in 2 larger sizes when needed.

I also use other ones as needed, like fav bread, santuko vegetable, or other special purpose

K 3in paring knife is also a go to knife, worth every penny

https://sabatieroutlet.com/products/cooks-knife-8in-authentic-carbon

 

rs=w:600,h:600

 

You will see the steel grades listed for many knives and or the alloy used, different recipes with different results

You will want to familiarize yourself with the various types of steel, you will need it

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_steel_grades

  • Quote

    AUTHENTIC CARBON - Fully Forged Carbon Steel.  Blade is made with a soft steel that will hold a very fine edge and is easy to resharpen. The full tang, molded A.B.S. handle knives are the 'Top of the Line", made by the original Sabatier factory in Theirs, France. NOTE: This type of steel will stain easily & even rust under damp conditions.

    Quote

    MAILING ADDRESS:  K Sabatier Factory Outlet, Post Office Box 574, Yemassee, SC 29945
    STORE LOCATION:  17 North & I-95 (Exit 33) Point South
    STORE LOCATION HOURS:  8 a.m. - 5 p.m.
    EMAILinfo@sabatieroutlet.com 
    PHONE:  843-726-6444
    FAX:  843-726-6713

    https://sabatieroutlet.com/

- K Sabatier

- 5 Star Elephant Sabatier are the top two in that order

 

H. & F. LAUTERJUNG GmbH & Co. - Lauterjung Solingen

German Soligen

H&F Lauterjung, trademark is a Pine Tree

My knife is no longer available, they went stainless, what the market wants

https://www.lauterjung.de/

 

Why Steel Grade Matters

The grade of steel, as well as how it's made, determines everything from the blade's hardness and durability to its ability to take and hold a sharp edge and its corrosion resistance. If you spend any time in the kitchen or outdoors, you'll understand the value of having a strong knife blade that retains a sharp edge. 

 

The following summary explains some of the most commonly used steel grades grouped as non-stainless and stainless steels.

https://www.thoughtco.com/knife-steel-grades-2340185

 

Midway summery of knife steel, outdoor gear perspective

Also covers types of handle materials

https://www.midwayusa.com/how-to-guides/knife-steel-and-handle-material-selection

 

Excellent write up demonstrating trade offs with steel types

https://www.marineapproved.com/best-knife-steels-guide-with-charts/

 

Good write up on steel types, for outdoor and mil worth a read

also sells all the sharpening and maintenance etc

https://www.bladehq.com/cat--Steel-Types--332

 

4116 Krupp – one of the finest stainless steels produced in Europe. It is made by Thysen Krupp in Germany, and is created to very precise standards. The exact make-up of the steel is a trade-secret, but knives made with Krupp steel have created legends. 4116 Krupp is mostly used in very high-end knives, medical equipment (scalpels, etc…), and top-of-the-line European kitchen knives. It has a perfect balance between toughness, rust-resistance, and edge retention. It has a Rockwell Hardness of around 57 HRC. Great companies like J. A. Henckels, Sabatier, and Wustoff, have all made some very famous chefs knives from 4116 Krupp. A kitchen knife made from 4116 Krupp is an heirloom-quality tool, and a prized pos-session. But be prepared to spend $100.00 (US) or more on one. You get what you pay for.

http://4116 Krupp – one of the finest stainless steels produced in Europe. It is made by Thysen Krupp in Germany, and is created to very precise standards. The exact make-up of the steel is a trade-secret, but knives made with Krupp steel have created legends. 4116 Krupp is mostly used in very high-end knives, medical equipment (scalpels, etc…), and top-of-the-line European kitchen knives. It has a perfect balance between toughness, rust-resistance, and edge retention. It has a Rockwell Hardness of around 57 HRC. Great companies like J. A. Henckels, Sabatier, and Wustoff, have all made some very famous chefs knives from 4116 Krupp. A kitchen knife made from 4116 Krupp is an heirloom-quality tool, and a prized pos-session. But be prepared to spend $100.00 (US) or more on one. You get what you pay for.

 

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On 2/11/2021 at 3:40 PM, dirtmudd said:

 

I bought the plastic handle Victorinox piece by piece.  Great knives.  I sharpen once or twice a year.

 

It cost more than buying a set, but we have 12 pairing knives which we use constantly instead of steak knives.  Worked out well. 

 

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My father was a career Army food service warrant officer, retiring in Jan 1964, with over 27 years of service.  I use what he used, and, if I use something different, he was the one who told me it was great stuff, otherwise I would never have bought it.  So...what do I use?  I am a hunter, and I have always "processed" my meat myself, so I have a standard kit for initial butchering and quartering and such for large game.  The skinning knife is an old school Schrade sharp finger, made back when all of them were USA-made.  I got mine in the early 1970's.  For initial butchering and quartering and such, I use TWO knives...both of which are high-carbon and both of which are "Old Hickory" brand forged steel.  One is a standard butcher knife, while the other is a medium length boning knife.  These were also purchased new in the early 1970's.

 

So, my kitchen knives are all of one brand and same series....with stainless high carbon steel blades, forged in the USA, and purchased over about a decade (late 1980's thru mid 1990's), initially in a large set, but I also added every single one of them in that series over the next few years. And, that is LOTS of cutting instruments, because the Walnut Traditions line of Chicago Cutlery was the largest collection out there!...from ANYBODY!  I will never have a need for more knives than I already have for game and food preparation< TRUST ME on THAT!

 

I use only Arkansas stones for sharpening stones, and have both a ceramic and steel chef's sharpening steel for them. 

 

What do I carry in the woods when hunting?  Buck Folding hunter...from back in the day when I was a young paratrooper.

What is my pocket knife?  "Mauser" labelled Victorinox-made "Swiss Army Knife" with everything I NEED on it.  If I had known how valuable this particular knife would become  on the collector's market, when I bought it for 12 bucks in 1986, I would have bought every one there at Ranger Joe's!  It was a promotional knife for a Mauser changeable barrel bolt action rifle, that didn't exactly sell as well as Mauser hoped it would when it first came out!  Not very many of these knives were made to begin with!  Ranger Joe's bought up the remaining inventory after the Mauser promotional time limit expired, and a couple of cases were on clearance when I bought mine!

 

Do I have other knives??...yes, many of them, mostly just for investments for the future, though.  My collectible passion is sailor knives...most only have sheep's foot blade with marlin spike!  I have some really nice and rare ones in NIB condition!

 

What do I think of Gerber knives?  They hold an edge for a decent time, BUT the steel edge is too hard, and chips easily!  I prefer an older Buck to them!  Never had a USA-made Buck blade edge chip, yet!

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^^^^^
If memory serves you live in Arkansas? Try a custom knife from Bob Dozier out of Springdale. Tremendous craftsmanship, both folders and fixed blades. He likes D2 steel and are literally sharp as a razor and while D2 takes a great edge and heat treats very well they need to be maintained using rust inhibitors.

Chris Reeves are HQ carry folders a cut above the likes of Benchmade, Spydreco, ZT.

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Honesuki style, for poultry, pheasant and ducks

 

 

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On 2/11/2021 at 5:40 PM, dirtmudd said:

 

Cool web site

If I could only buy one knife on this site it would be the

Wusthof 4582-7/18 Classic 7" Forged Cook's Knife with POM Handle, $150

You would have to research which steel, likely the highest grade

There is probably a small premium for the Wusthof name, but it is a very competitive market

so it shouldn't be too much.

I prefer the 7 in over the 8in and don't see it on the Sabatier Site which is a mistake on their part

Maybe Sabatier can special order it, if you don't mind waiting a few weeks or drop ship it from France to your home.

7 in is easy to articulate for an average height 5'9" person and easy to maneuver around the work

The Ideal tool size IMHO

https://www.webstaurantstore.com/wusthof-4582-7-18-classic-7-forged-cooks-knife-with-pom-handle/9264582718.html

 

Swiss Name not sure of the difference between these two, not more than 2in wide easy to maneuver.

Victorinox 47520 8" Chef Knife with Fibrox Handle $48

https://www.webstaurantstore.com/victorinox-47520-8-chef-knife-with-fibrox-handle/35347520.html

 

Victorinox 5.2063.20 8" Chef Knife with Fibrox Handle

https://www.webstaurantstore.com/victorinox-5-2063-20-8-chef-knife-with-fibrox-handle/35340520.html

 

 

MERCER

Unless the Wife has giant hands, she would love this one, excellent knife. Genesis 6" Mercer

My daughter is approx 5'6" and in her 20s, I gave her approx 20 knives to choose from,

she tried a few out to make dinner while visiting

she went for the 5.5-6in chef blade approx 2' wide max, 3 rivet wood handle and took 8 others I gave her to her appt

4 months later, she told me it is the only one she uses, and every meal.

If someone is over 6'2" they might find the angles more natural with a 10" inch knife

 

Hers'

Mercer Culinary M20606 Genesis® 6" Forged Chef Knife with Full Tang Blade $27

https://www.webstaurantstore.com/mercer-culinary-m20606-genesis-6-forged-chef-knife-with-full-tang-blade/470M20606.html

 

His

I would be very happy to own this knife, and may buy one to play with at a later date

Mercer Culinary M20608 Genesis® 8" Forged Chef Knife with Full Tang Blade $29

https://www.webstaurantstore.com/mercer-culinary-m20608-genesis-8-forged-chef-knife-with-full-tang-blade/470M20608.html

 

If you want to go all in with a Mercer set, get the paring knife and Santoku vegetable knife, maybe a bread knife too.

https://www.webstaurantstore.com/mercer-culinary-m20003-genesis-3-1-2-forged-paring-knife-with-full-tang-blade/470M20003.html

https://www.webstaurantstore.com/mercer-culinary-m20707-genesis-7-forged-santoku-knife-with-granton-edge-and-full-tang-blade/470M20707.html

https://www.webstaurantstore.com/mercer-culinary-m20508-genesis-8-forged-bread-knife-with-full-tang-blade/470M20508.html

 

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10 hours ago, HDBRbuilder said:

 For initial butchering and quartering and such, I use TWO knives...both of which are high-carbon and both of which are "Old Hickory" brand forged steel.  One is a standard butcher knife, while the other is a medium length boning knife.  These were also purchased new in the early 1970's.

 

Thanks for reminding me,

Ontario Knife Co. Made in the US

This one is the best deal available on grey metal Chef's Knife $18

Maybe the best deal on a high quality Chef Knife, no qualifications

Old Hickory.

I have to remember to buy one to play with

Product Description

A good, basic chef's knife in 1095 high carbon steel. A revival of a classic from the Old Hickory line, by popular demand!
If selecting the Special Grade option we will thin and refine the factory edge.
Overall Length: 13"
Blade Length: 8 & 1/8"
Thickness: 2mm
Steel: 1095 High Carbon
Weight: 4oz

https://www.baryonyxknife.com/oldhichkn.html

 

old-hickory-chef-knife-3.gif

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In reading the supplier comments

It reminded me that my grandfather made his own knives from

spring steel and industrial saw blades that were being replaced

All with wood riveted handles, great knives I often what happened to them.

My friend who's father was a machinist, had done the same thing.

 

DIY KNIFE MAKING SUPPLIES INC STEEL

https://www.alphaknifesupply.com/shop/1095-carbon-steel

 

1095 Steel product info

One of the best ways to make excellent knives is to use repeatable and reliable processes and materials. 1095 does not meet this criteria. The problem is the specifications are too loose. The composition shown above is for this specific batch of steel.

Here is the standard specification for 1095:

We do not disclose the mill where this alloy is made.

The mill is located in Europe and has very tight tolerances for alloys they produce.

 

Carbon: 0.950 - 1.050
Chromium: 0.000 - 0.400
Manganese: 0.300 - 0.600
Molybdenum: 0.000 - 0.100
Nickel: 0.000 - 0.400
Phosphorus: 0.000 - 0.025
Silicon: 0.150 - 0.350
Sulfur: 0.000 - 0.025

 

There are five elements where the acceptable percentage ranges from 0.000% to a maximum of .400%. This is a ridiculous amount of variation. Loose tolerances is the primary reason why we previously chose not to stock 1095 for years.

To get around the problem of loose tolerances we purchased several thousand pounds of 1095 from the same melt. This means you can buy 1095 from us and it will be repeatable and reliable when heat treating.

 

New Knifemakers
I’ve heard many beginning knifemakers say 1095 and O1 are the best steel for beginning knifemakers. When I ask where they learned this information, they almost always say YouTube. Do not believe anyone on YouTube who says 1095 and/or O1 are the best beginner steels. They are wrong. If they are wrong about steel, what other erroneous information are they sharing? In my opinion, the best steel alloys for beginners are 1084, 15N20, 5160, 80CrV2 or 8670. All these steels are much easier to heat treat than 1095 and O1.

I do not recommend 1095 for beginning knifemakers. If you are a new knifemaker and you make a knife with our 1095 that does not get hard, do not complain. You have been warned to use a different steel.

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On 2/13/2021 at 10:19 PM, richieb said:

^^^^^
If memory serves you live in Arkansas? Try a custom knife from Bob Dozier out of Springdale. Tremendous craftsmanship, both folders and fixed blades. He likes D2 steel and are literally sharp as a razor and while D2 takes a great edge and heat treats very well they need to be maintained using rust inhibitors.

Chris Reeves are HQ carry folders a cut above the likes of Benchmade, Spydreco, ZT.

There is a guy just down the road from me who also served in the same Airborne unit I served in, but he was there about a decade before I was.  He makes custom hunter/skinners, but only for auction to Airborne association reunions....so as to get more money into their association coffers.  His work is more than respectable, and I have one of his blades...I think he actually starts out with leaf springs from very old trucks...which tend to make great-edge-holding blades, that will not get damaged from prying with them...high carbon spring steel!  He re-forges them some, but they are still basically the same steel the springs started out as. They too, WILL RUST, if not taken care of, but they make GREAT practical user knives...which is what I personally prefer in a knife!  I have another old Airborne buddy who specializes in holsters and sheathes...and his work is simply outstanding!  When we had a retiring LTC from the ROTC program I worked at...I talked to the rest of the gang about getting him one of the holsters for his retirement/departure gift.  Her is a pic of what he received...simply amazing work!  I designed the lay-out of things, based upon the LTC's military experience...and when I presented it to him, his eyes teared up!  Anybody interested in the holsters or knife sheaths...just google "Clever Action Holsters"  You won't be disappointed in what you get for a very reasonable cost!

LTC Clark's holster in shadow box 1.jpg

holsterpic2.jpg

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I started putting together a knife set for my daughter

I was hitting the resale shops and estate sales etc

I went for the wood handles so I could practice refinishing on a micro scale

some of the knives have very attractive wood on the handles

 

The one on the left is approx 8" Hamilton Beach, I think they call the thinned blade a "hollow round grind"

anyway the metal tapers off to very thin for a razor blade once you sharpen it. Spent a couple of hours fixing this knife but it turned out nice. The blade metal is relatively soft, which was good as I had to straighten the blade in several areas.. Found that it's a lettuce and salad killer.

 

Next looks identical, but no taper on the blade other than the rolled steel, very strong for hard cheeses, meats, squash etc. Blade is heavy and hard steel.

 

The two rivet models, it turns out were decorative wedding sets from the 50s  to 70s, they don't look strong to me but the woods are beautiful after you sand them down and oil them.

 

The third from the right is a US Made small chef's knife with Vanadium Steel, I think that is the hard one for blades, took extra passes to get a sharp edge on it. 6 months of daily use, my daughter tells me it's still a razor. It's her go to knife, 5"6" tall. Knife blade is approx 5.5-6 in long. Light, rigid, agile in the hand and a razor.

 

DSCN1534.JPG

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On 2/14/2021 at 4:22 PM, Foxman said:

Ordered, received and used my first westone on my old Henkles. I have a lot to learn about sharpening, but these are sharper than they have been on well over 20 years. $22.99 on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07ZZG7V31/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

IMG_4572.jpg

IMG_4573.jpg

 

watch the vid

 

 

Dexter-Russell 07946 12" Manual Tri-Stone Knife Sharpener System (webstaurantstore.com)

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