Chiily Posted November 6, 2022 Share Posted November 6, 2022 (edited) I'm a new owner of a pair of Forte IVs, just bought last week and I'm in the process of getting to know them; quite a leap from a pair of Quad 57s I'm experimenting with placement atm, I've noticed that there is a a bit of a lack of forwardness to the sound, the image is very flat - speakers are about 6" from the wall, at the closest corner and toed into point at the listener. I auditioned the Fortes with a pair of Radford MA15s, the sound was very good, plenty of volume and very sweet, no presence of any "sharp" edges to the sound. I was wondering whether any other Klipsch heritage owners had tried vintage British valve amps and what they thought of the combination? I've a Leak ST20 and a pair of Quad IIs to try yet... Edited November 6, 2022 by Chiily Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjptkd Posted November 6, 2022 Share Posted November 6, 2022 56 minutes ago, Chiily said: I'm a new owner of a pair of Forte IVs, just bought last week and I'm in the process of getting to know them I'm experimenting with placement atm, I've noticed that there is a a bit of a lack of forwardness to the sound, the image is very flat - speakers are about 6" from the wall, at the closest corner and toed into point at the listener. If you bought them new they may require a bit of a break in period to open up and sound their best but equipment matching and positioning can have dramatic effects. I noticed some time ago getting speakers out of corners can really help with imagining and sound stage my current set up speakers are 6ft from the side walls, about 8 inches off the front wall slightly toed in. Also where you sit in the room can have a big impact. I'd keep them playing as much as possible to break them in the first week or two and keep adjusting their placement at some point you'll hit a sweet spot. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted November 6, 2022 Share Posted November 6, 2022 'Forward' isn't an issue for any klipsch heritage... usually it is TO FORWARD for most. just continue to break them in and throw different valves at it and you are going to be very happy., 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiily Posted November 6, 2022 Author Share Posted November 6, 2022 (edited) I did buy them new, so I have them playing atm with a SS amp, saving the valves for later. Excuse the the sparse side of the room and the mess I had just moved the 57s out of the way and they were a long way forward, and quite wide. I have a pair of acoustic panel at the speaker's sides to counter any first reflections. I think what I will do is move the speakers little closer together and a little further away from the back wall to see if that brings a little more depth to the soundstage. The room is L shaped, this begin the widest end. You know, I think Cornwalls would have fitted...lol Thank you for the advice so far. I would like to get the speakers to image as the rest of their sound is fabulous.... Edited November 6, 2022 by Chiily 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the real Duke Spinner Posted November 6, 2022 Share Posted November 6, 2022 27 minutes ago, Chiily said: I did buy them new, so I have them playing atm with a SS amp, saving the valves for later. Excuse the the sparse side of the room and the mess I had just moved the 57s out of the way and they were a long way forward, and quite wide. I have a pair of acoustic panel at the speaker's sides to counter any first reflections. I think what I will do is move the speakers little closer together and a little further away from the back wall to see if that brings a little more depth to the soundstage. The room is L shaped, this begin the widest end. You know, I think Cornwalls would have fitted...lol Thank you for the advice so far. I would like to get the speakers to image as the rest of their sound is fabulous.... Nicely arranged setup. 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted November 6, 2022 Share Posted November 6, 2022 2 hours ago, Schu said: 'Forward' isn't an issue for any klipsch heritage... usually it is TO FORWARD for most. just continue to break them in and throw different valves at it and you are going to be very happy., I think he is referring to the depth of the sound stage, not treble response. To the OP, try bringing the speakers a three feet into the room. Maybe the wall reflections are affecting the depth. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OO1 Posted November 6, 2022 Share Posted November 6, 2022 you said it right .........Cornwalls have presence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiily Posted November 6, 2022 Author Share Posted November 6, 2022 Yep, it is the sound stage I'm trying to create. I was listening to a couple of tracks I know reasonably well last night and the image was quite flat, vocal not pushed forward as I would have expected from hearing the same track on a couple of different setups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiily Posted November 6, 2022 Author Share Posted November 6, 2022 1 hour ago, Chiily said: I did buy them new, so I have them playing atm with a SS amp, saving the valves for later. Excuse the the sparse side of the room and the mess I had just moved the 57s out of the way and they were a long way forward, and quite wide. I have a pair of acoustic panel at the speaker's sides to counter any first reflections. I think what I will do is move the speakers little closer together and a little further away from the back wall to see if that brings a little more depth to the soundstage. The room is L shaped, this begin the widest end. You know, I think Cornwalls would have fitted...lol Thank you for the advice so far. I would like to get the speakers to image as the rest of their sound is fabulous.... Just noticed that the right speaker in not "straight on" to the listening position, I can spy a like speaker side... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnJ Posted November 6, 2022 Share Posted November 6, 2022 Yep Fortes have to be played with with the walls behind and beside. You will notice the differences the different distances can have on the sound reproduction. I've got the IIIs and the manual did have suggestions, sure the IVs will give you a starting point mentioned there too. You also have the diffusers to play with, it could take weeks of fun to figure it out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry4841 Posted November 6, 2022 Share Posted November 6, 2022 3 hours ago, Chiily said: Yep, it is the sound stage I'm trying to create. I was listening to a couple of tracks I know reasonably well last night and the image was quite flat, vocal not pushed forward as I would have expected from hearing the same track on a couple of different setups. Probably has to do with SS amp and not speakers. You may want to swap the leads at the speakers and see how that sounds. Put positive on neg and neg on positive on both speakers. It's technical but give it a try and see how it projects the sound that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted November 7, 2022 Share Posted November 7, 2022 For sure Cornwalls would have been a step up in that listening space... better yet, La Scala AL5's. listen to the fortes for a while then step up. One other thing is certain, it is possible to over dampen a listening space. many prefer a slightly active room to one that is completely dead. I would pull them away from boundary layers, and play with clocking. I personally rarely listen on axis. if you have valves, don't wait... get them in there. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcn3 Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 On 11/6/2022 at 12:49 PM, Chiily said: Just noticed that the right speaker in not "straight on" to the listening position, I can spy a like speaker side... don't assume that straight at the listening position is the best angle for imaging (it should provide the most forwardness, though). for my kef reference 1s, firing straight down the room is the best. for my heresys, having them toed in to cross a few feet in front of the listening position is best. for the chorus 1s that i just got, having them toed in to cross 4-5' in front of the listening position is best. for a deeper soundstage, moving the speakers out into the room will help. for a wider soundstage, i would try moving the speakers closer together. bottom line, enjoy playing around with them! you'll find the spot! edit: last random thought. for the chorus 1s i have and when i tried cornwall, any sort of absorption behind klipsch speakers seems to not work well. my kef reference 1s love the bass traps placed in the corners behind them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiily Posted November 11, 2022 Author Share Posted November 11, 2022 Hmmm, I've tried them against the rear wall, and out from the rear wall, up to about 75cm away. They have sounded better against the wall in terms of clarity and evenness of Freq response. Away from the walls they do start to become quite confused with a muddled sound. I've not experimented with toe in as yet, leaving them directed to the listening position...plenty more to try, though it does get a little disheartening going from good to bad sq... Onwards... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjptkd Posted November 11, 2022 Share Posted November 11, 2022 2 hours ago, Chiily said: I've not experimented with toe in as yet, leaving them directed to the listening position...plenty more to try, though it does get a little disheartening going from good to bad sq... Onwards... If you haven't hooked up your tube amp yet now might be the time, equipment matching is everything with these speakers. Also have you tried listening to the m with the grill covers off? That can change the sound as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Morbius Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 Yes, time to add the tube amp and give it some volume. I see someone also mentioned popping off the grills too. Can’t hurt! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiily Posted November 16, 2022 Author Share Posted November 16, 2022 Progress.... Inch by inch the speakers are moving to their final positions, and slowly I'm finding their ability to image. First was to get they at the right position from the back wall, about 14cm at their mid point. This for me provides outstanding bass that doesn't overbear or muddy the music at all, and no overhang. Very pleased. I'm now playing with toe in. Started from being directly at the listening position and inch by inch turning them outwards. I've swapped to my restored Leak ST20, on its 8 ohm tap and twiddled the EQ on the miniDSP to let the full audio bandwidth to the Leak, with a slice of 40Hz and below to the sub, just fill in, but at a low level. Previously with ESL57s my listening was all near field, the Quads needing plenty of space behind them, and it is taking a little getting used to being so far from a pair of speakers... Anyway, I swapped out the Radfords because they were picking up too much RFI from the HomePower Ethernet plugs extending my home network out to the garage....gonna have to get a wire in there. All power to the Leak, 10 watts of EL84 per channel is surprisingly loud. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Chi-town Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 I own forte IV as well. Prior to purchasing a couple months ago, I was a forte II owner for 30 years. First try no toe in. I have never felt the forte line sounded well with toe in. Secondly, no more than 1 foot away from wall. I have found that 10-12 inches is ideal for bass response without muddying up the mid-range squawker. This has held true for me in 3 different residences over 30 years. Put some hours on them and I am certain your perception will change after 100 plus hours of burn time. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 On 11/16/2022 at 6:20 PM, John Chi-town said: I have found that 10-12 inches is ideal for bass response without muddying up the mid-range squawker. He's got them about 5 1/2 inches out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiily Posted November 26, 2022 Author Share Posted November 26, 2022 I'll try them, as suggested, a little further from the wall. They are just about at the position of no toe in and strangely I can get one speaker to "disappear" but not the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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