Older vs newer Klipsch, new member.

[dtel]

On 6/16/2023 at 2:11 PM, Mark Swearengin said:

I can't imagine a change in crossover capacitors enhancing anything. 

I felt the same way right up until I had them changed, not a small difference but a big difference anyone could hear and mine were very old. I guess it all comes down to how far out of spec they are. My ears are not great and I heard a huge difference with mine, it was AA crossovers on a different speaker but still really old capacitors which is the point here. Caps are not hard to change if one can solder and they do not have to be silly prices, just replace with the same values as to not change the design. Probably one of the cheapest changes that can be made to improve the sound if the old caps are out of spec.

 

I am not a trained listener, much more a casual listener enjoying the music not the setup but it is easy to hear what just sounds better to me after 50 years of hearing different speakers and systems. I don't want to be a critical listener I chose to just enjoy the music.

 

New versus old speaker designs I tend to go with the new models in most cases. New designs are compared to older models to make then sound better with newly designed parts that were not designed at the time of the original speaker design. I have three different Forte's designs the original, the 2 version and the 3 version but not the 4 version. Side by side each progression sounds better including the 4th version.

 

But like with everything, we all hear and like what we like which is fine, that is how it should be. Just is just my ideas using an old set of ears and what I think sounds better.

[Dave1291]

I jumped right into a pair of LS then picked up an older pair of Heresy.  Zero regrets.  Began w/a pair of ESS AMT-1's years ago then a pair of Infinity Reference Standard 2.5's, which sounded great w/the EMIM ribbons.  Today I'm very happy w/my old LS.  They beat an air fryer every time when it comes to cookin.  I'd be lookin for a pair of LS or K horns if I were you.  Welcome Home! 

[Audible Nectar]

I think that the Heritage being sold from 1965ish to 1980ish are some of the greatest audio achievements in history. The simplicity, engineering, build quality, and re-buildability still to this day make them as viable an option as there is in the audio marketplace. This does not diminish the sound approaches of the newest product but the OG Heritage comes from a different place and different approach that allows for its own benefits and advantages. Four top flagship line speakers using identical drivers, the fifth only varying one (woofer), that stuff brings a bunch of lifetime ownership advantages....

 

The only issue with OG Heritage is that most of the good ones are held by people who will own them to the death and therefore are out of circulation, whereas the newest versions are readily available for order. Twenty years ago though we were yapping on here about how you could buy Heritage for pennies on the dollar value, while the B---ification (miniaturization) of the audio world was in full flight.

 

Of course the newest Heritage have a TON of issues worked out too, not the least is the bracing on these new cabs that really do matter in their big picture. The "modding/addressing flaws" is done for you in a Klipsch stock product with painstaking engineering on its own. You can go to a dealer and listen to new product too, many here "guessed" their way to the proper OG Heritage for them. New stuff is still American made and you're really getting something for the money. Sometimes the old OG Heritage stuff needs a little work.....but once done they last for decades again. New is easier 🙂

 

Since the path with my current OG Heritage has been akin to raising a group of kids, I am really hesitant to move from them. I still greatly enjoy the performance, they are in really good shape, and they have found new love with the newer gears installed on them recently (Mac theater and teflonized tube gears). 

 

All of which is to say that there's nothing wrong with liking the old original products. It's quite a statement in a world of ever improving technology that they still hold up as well as they do, and when old parts are at issue, they accept replacements well (including new Klipsch approved/sonically proper crossovers built by Dean himself). 

 

So there's no reason NOT to buy good condition OG Heritage, there's a bunch to love, especially if you can source good looking examples (or have the skills to do cab restorations). It can be a much longer road as it's used market stuff, but I had a Heritage fetish for years and as such knew I would be happy here and pretty well what was to work out better in my spaces.

[Mark Swearengin]

19 hours ago, Dave1291 said:

I jumped right into a pair of LS then picked up an older pair of Heresy.  Zero regrets.  Began w/a pair of ESS AMT-1's years ago then a pair of Infinity Reference Standard 2.5's, which sounded great w/the EMIM ribbons.  Today I'm very happy w/my old LS.  They beat an air fryer every time when it comes to cookin.  I'd be lookin for a pair of LS or K horns if I were you.  Welcome Home! 

Just hauled the K-horns up a flight of stairs yesterday.  Whew!!!

 

[Mark Swearengin]

16 hours ago, Audible Nectar said:

I think that the Heritage being sold from 1965ish to 1980ish are some of the greatest audio achievements in history. The simplicity, engineering, build quality, and re-buildability still to this day make them as viable an option as there is in the audio marketplace. This does not diminish the sound approaches of the newest product but the OG Heritage comes from a different place and different approach that allows for its own benefits and advantages. Four top flagship line speakers using identical drivers, the fifth only varying one (woofer), that stuff brings a bunch of lifetime ownership advantages....

 

The only issue with OG Heritage is that most of the good ones are held by people who will own them to the death and therefore are out of circulation, whereas the newest versions are readily available for order. Twenty years ago though we were yapping on here about how you could buy Heritage for pennies on the dollar value, while the B---ification (miniaturization) of the audio world was in full flight.

 

Of course the newest Heritage have a TON of issues worked out too, not the least is the bracing on these new cabs that really do matter in their big picture. The "modding/addressing flaws" is done for you in a Klipsch stock product with painstaking engineering on its own. You can go to a dealer and listen to new product too, many here "guessed" their way to the proper OG Heritage for them. New stuff is still American made and you're really getting something for the money. Sometimes the old OG Heritage stuff needs a little work.....but once done they last for decades again. New is easier 🙂

 

Since the path with my current OG Heritage has been akin to raising a group of kids, I am really hesitant to move from them. I still greatly enjoy the performance, they are in really good shape, and they have found new love with the newer gears installed on them recently (Mac theater and teflonized tube gears). 

 

All of which is to say that there's nothing wrong with liking the old original products. It's quite a statement in a world of ever improving technology that they still hold up as well as they do, and when old parts are at issue, they accept replacements well (including new Klipsch approved/sonically proper crossovers built by Dean himself). 

 

So there's no reason NOT to buy good condition OG Heritage, there's a bunch to love, especially if you can source good looking examples (or have the skills to do cab restorations). It can be a much longer road as it's used market stuff, but I had a Heritage fetish for years and as such knew I would be happy here and pretty well what was to work out better in my spaces.

That's a great write up and I agree with everything you said!  The older speakers definitely have a sound all their own that's very appealing, not only with Klipsch but other brands as well.  I also have a set of Dahlquist DQ-20's, Infinity Kappa 8's, and original Advents that I enjoy along with my Klipsch speakers.  All bring something unique to the listener!

[Dave1291]

1 hour ago, Mark Swearengin said:

I also have a set of Dahlquist DQ-20's, Infinity Kappa 8's, and original Advents that I enjoy along with my Klipsch speakers.  All bring something unique to the listener!

Oh we ALL get that.  Just keep dustin all those other things off.  I'd dump  'em all right now while the markets hot.  😂  Khorns huh?  Get back to us with your thoughts and an update on your back.  You'll understand what we all said a bit better when you fire those Khorns up.  Welcome to the Klipsch family.   

[grasshopper]

 my search for audio perfection... It is pretty short.Series one Bose 301's- purchased in '77... and then a Yamaha system in the early 90's. Had to leave it in HI when I moved back to the mainland...

Later in life I bought a pair of baby Klipsch bookshelf R15M's. Liked them and wanted more/bigger. 6 months later found a pair of '76 LS.  No regrets

Needed some speakers for my doghouse... bought a pair of RP600M's. They are very nice.. but, I much prefer listening to the LS.

[earcheer]

Okay, a prevailing observation about the upper frequencies through the tweeter horn being somewhat harsh or ear piercing on some material or through certain amps seems to be a common trait on the Heritage speakers. I have a pair of Forte 2s from 1989 that I have loved since the first day that they replaced my Forte 1s. Anyway after a few amp choices I used an NAD preamp to NAD amp combination that sounded better balanced for these speakers in about 1992. Until now. I bought a pair of Elac Uni-Fi 2.0 for another room, they sound great in a small room with sweet details and broad imaging. So I thought to pair them with the Fortes but I disconnected the tweeter horns in the Fortes and placed the Elacs on top of the Klipschs and to my amazement, running all 4 expanded the sound in every way with crisper but pleasant highs and a much more balanced profile. Maybe due to a lower sensitivity in the Elacs that slightly suppresses the top end but sends great details through with wider imaging. So now I have a mongrel 4 speaker setup that sounds much better especially after I put a new integrated Cambridge CXA81 amp to drive it. Nearly Nirvana!

[Dave1291]

@Mark Swearengin you still alive?  Just wondering about your back AND your thoughts.  Inquiring minds wanna know! 

[Invidiosulus]

On 7/19/2023 at 11:38 AM, Mark Swearengin said:

Did you replace the back panel with something thicker like 3/4" plywood?  Seems like that would be an easy fix!  I going to replace the spring loaded clips with better banana plugs soon and might just do that.

Yep, it’s the largest unbraced panel in the box and it’s the thinnest piece.

 

I actually added a piece of 3/4” MDF to the back of the original back piece and just ran some longer screws through to hold it in place.

 

Nowadays I would probably just make a new back piece out of 3/4” plywood and add some real binding posts.

*edit*
I would still probably add an additional brace or two across the outside of the rear panel to make sure it wasn’t flexing, even with 3/4” plywood.

[Fido]

I inherited a pair of Forte 1s from my father who passed in 2000. Replaced the crossovers with new Crites crossovers, added titanium tweeter diaphragms and then installed Dave As tweeters. They sounded very good and I loved them as my mains for many years. This last year I bought a new pair of Forte IVs and made my Forte1s my rear surrounds. I have placed the Forte IVs where my Forte 1s used to be and in my room with the rest of my system the IVs sound better in every way than my Forte 1s ever sounded. Sound stage, bass, midrange, mid bass — all better to my ears than the 1s. I don’t understand how people could prefer the Forte 1s over the 4s. Yes the 4s cost more. My dads 1s were $1000 back in 1986. I paid $3200 for the Forte IVs but  I think they are worth every penny.

[Islander]

9 hours ago, Fido said:

I inherited a pair of Forte 1s from my father who passed in 2000. Replaced the crossovers with new Crites crossovers, added titanium tweeter diaphragms and then installed Dave As tweeters. They sounded very good and I loved them as my mains for many years. This last year I bought a new pair of Forte IVs and made my Forte1s my rear surrounds. I have placed the Forte IVs where my Forte 1s used to be and in my room with the rest of my system the IVs sound better in every way than my Forte 1s ever sounded. Sound stage, bass, midrange, mid bass — all better to my ears than the 1s. I don’t understand how people could prefer the Forte 1s over the 4s. Yes the 4s cost more. My dads 1s were $1000 back in 1986. I paid $3200 for the Forte IVs but  I think they are worth every penny.

 

The engineers at Klipsch keep working on the speakers, so that each new generation sounds better.  Sometimes there are small steps, sometimes big jumps.  The 2007 La Scala IIs of mine are clearly better than the 1974 models (which are now my Surround speakers), and they should be.  I don't doubt that the AL5s are better yet.

 

Of course, the JubScala conversion probably closes the gap a bit...

[the real Duke Spinner]

On 7/28/2023 at 10:38 AM, Invidiosulus said:

Yep, it’s the largest unbraced panel in the box and it’s the thinnest piece.

 

I actually added a piece of 3/4” MDF to the back of the original back piece and just ran some longer screws through to hold it in place.

 

Nowadays I would probably just make a new back piece out of 3/4” plywood and add some real binding posts.

*edit*
I would still probably add an additional brace or two across the outside of the rear panel to make sure it wasn’t flexing, even with 3/4” plywood.

I simply X Braced mine.  🙂

[Tom05]

I think the older Heritage models represent some of the best values in home audio, particularly Lascala and Klipschorn . And if you’re lucky enough to find a used pair in excellent original condition, jackpot . These models will immediately impress you with their unparalleled scale and authority , they let you know that the big boys are playing the room ,  with a good recording, you become aware that something special is going on , and it is . The big powerful old heritage sound is still tough to beat . Sure the new models may benefit from various refinements, they most certainly will provide a flatter frequency response, but the old stuff still stand’s strong with all the attributes that horn fanatics love . Many will find that the old classic Klipsch is a very attractive alternative to the new and improved stuff , just as many preferred the lovely Maryann over the  supposedly more sophisticated and refined Ginger 🤓

[henry4841]

Well said. Any old Heritage was outstanding sounding when built. I do not see how that could have changed if everything still working as should. Newer Heritage, different sound many might call better then perhaps others not. PWK liked what he heard. 

[henry4841]

Just now, henry4841 said:

When we make a boo boo I wish there was a way to cancel quote click admin. 

[henry4841]

Just did boo boo, anyways as we all know the price of K-horn and LaScala has risen quite a bit the last few years cutting out many that cannot afford the current price. Only alternative for great horn sound is on the used market for them. 

[ClaudeJ1]

On 8/5/2023 at 10:23 PM, Fido said:

I inherited a pair of Forte 1s from my father who passed in 2000. Replaced the crossovers with new Crites crossovers, added titanium tweeter diaphragms and then installed Dave As tweeters. They sounded very good and I loved them as my mains for many years. This last year I bought a new pair of Forte IVs and made my Forte1s my rear surrounds. I have placed the Forte IVs where my Forte 1s used to be and in my room with the rest of my system the IVs sound better in every way than my Forte 1s ever sounded. Sound stage, bass, midrange, mid bass — all better to my ears than the 1s. I don’t understand how people could prefer the Forte 1s over the 4s. Yes the 4s cost more. My dads 1s were $1000 back in 1986. I paid $3200 for the Forte IVs but  I think they are worth every penny.

What, no mentions of the beautiful Super Heresy 1's you built and sold off for the Forte IV's? Bow your head now and mumble. LOL.

[Fido]

39 minutes ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

What, no mentions of the beautiful Super Heresy 1's you built and sold off for the Forte IV's? Bow your head now and mumble. LOL.

Trying to live my life more humble with far less ego. 🤪but those Super Heresey1s following your instructions turned out pretty damned nice. I bought the Forte IVs with my credit card and when the bill came my wife paid for them from some work bonus she got so I saved my heresey sales $$$ for the new horn subs chief bonehead is introducing soon.  
 

how life treating you

[Dave1291]

He's sneaky like that @Fido.  Out of the box and sneaky too.  lol