What alters sound more?

[babadono]

On 8/5/2023 at 8:00 AM, Shakeydeal said:

They are the most important…… until they’re not.

 

I would take a system with average speakers and a world class front end over better speakers driven by a home theater receiver.

Your ears are different than mine...yup we're all different... going from KHorns to Jubes the difference was remarkable and un mistakeable. Both driven by the same electronics. There's no going back for me... its all good.

[robert_kc]

I live in a modest size house that is 98 years old.   No large “man cave” or dedicated home theater.

 
I choose to have original artwork on my walls, not foam panels.   My point is that my listening rooms “are what they are”. (With that said, I have oriental rugs covering most of the hardwoods, and there’s plenty of furniture in the rooms.   IOW, the acoustics aren’t overly “live”.)  

 
With that in mind, following are my thoughts in response to this thread’s topic:  “What alters sound more?”

 

#1  The Recording (Which Requires a Compatible Player)

 

For classical music, IME/O the most satisfying audio-only recordings are modern performances/recordings (i.e., performances recorded in the last dozen years or so) that were captured and mastered in multi-channel hi-res digital (e.g., 24bit/192kHz PCM, or DSD), and delivered on a Pure Audio Blu-ray disc featuring DTS-HD MA 5.1, or an SACD disc that features multi-channel DSD.   I find the audio quality of such recordings the most satisfying because these modern recording technologies (played via a top-quality tube-based surround-sound system) do the best job of creating the illusion that I’m in the symphony hall or opera house.

 

The recording medium that I find most satisfying overall for classical music is a Blu-ray (or Ultra HD Blu-ray) audio/video disc, however that’s a separate topic.

 

Which recording formats are relevant to you depends on the genre(s) of music you enjoy.  If you solely listen to vintage recordings, then you’re limited by vintage recording technology (i.e., no high-def video, and no hi-res multi-channel audio).

 

I’m fortunate because for the classical music I love there are many modern hi-res multi-channel performances/recordings, including audio-only and audio/video.

 

(This, of course, requires a universal player that supports multi-channel Blu-ray and SACD.  I use Oppo universal players with built-in audiophile-grade multi-channel DACs, such as the Oppo UDP-205.)

 

#2  Loudspeakers   

 

You can’t defy physics.   If your goal is to create the illusion that you’re in the symphony hall or opera house hearing a performance of a large-scale orchestral work or opera, and you’re listening to modern hi-res uncompressed recordings, then you need “big boy” speakers.  How big depends on the size of your listening room.

 

(OTOH, if you listen to music with little dynamic range (whether its heavy-metal or little-girl-with-a-guitar), then the demands on the speakers will be less, assuming that you listen at a sane volume level in an average size room.)

 

#3  Amplifiers That Have Synergy with the Speakers

 

For my various Klipsch speakers, I prefer tube amps, because this pairing is good at reproducing the natural timbre of orchestral instruments – AND an orchestra’s dynamic range.  Generally, my favorite tube amps for Klipsch employ 6L6GC.  (However, this can vary.)

 

#4  Subwoofers

 

Subwoofers can be useful for creating the illusion of being in the symphony hall, by augmenting the frequency range, and also potentially augmenting the overall dynamic range - assuming that the subwoofer’s crossover is before the main amp and speakers (which is the case with my Oppo UDP-205).     Have you ever heard the mighty “WHACK” of a bass drum, and Mahler hammer, in a symphony hall?   Pipe organ?

[dtel]

On 8/2/2023 at 7:16 PM, Marvel said:

Although I no longer have them, I had some MWM bass cabinets for a while.

That's just silly to have something like that in your living room. Wouldn't a nicely decorated room be much better/ prettier ?  

You youngsters these days, some little bookshelf speakers at most would be much more decorative, and fit in with the overall aesthetics which everyone knows is more important than sound.  

[Marvel]

At least yours are pretty...

[dtel]

But not as pretty as a nice lamp or table or other "decoration" 

 

But I put up with it since my wife wanted them, the things I put up with.

[Dave1291]

@dtel

 

[garyrc -- the original]

On 8/1/2023 at 7:48 PM, Zen Traveler said:

Otoh, we converted our den to a library, and then into a Home Theater, which has bookcases and shelves pretty much all over it and found they work great as "room treatment--Win/Win and the wife likes it as well to get that bonus Win. 😁 

We did that, too.  Library/Music Listening Room/Home Theater.  My wife collaborated on the room design, the hanging of the bookshelves and she built the diffusors.

 

By the way, I'm baaack!  I lost the the ability to post on the Klipsch forum for about 1 year because I had aol.com and felt there must be a way around its incompatiblity with the forum.  There isn't, at least from here.

[Travis In Austin]

5 hours ago, garyrc -- the original said:

We did that, too.  Library/Music Listening Room/Home Theater.  My wife collaborated on the room design, the hanging of the bookshelves and she built the diffusors.

 

By the way, I'm baaack!  I lost the the ability to post on the Klipsch forum for about 1 year because I had aol.com and felt there must be a way around its incompatiblity with the forum.  There isn't, at least from here.

You have troble getting into, resoring your account?

[the real Duke Spinner]

On 8/10/2023 at 6:46 PM, robert_kc said:

 

For my various Klipsch speakers, I prefer tube amps,

 

You realize that You are opting for a " filter"....depending on the Tube. ??

6L6 may be considered to accentuate Bass Freqs ...EL84, mids

[garyrc -- the original]

19 hours ago, Travis In Austin said:

You have troble getting into, resoring your account?

 

Yes, I couldn't get into my old account, with aol.com, my longstanding portal.  Here is my old data:  

garyrc

Regulars

1886

• Joined

  January 22, 2003

• Posts

  4186

• So, I finally was able to use my wife's old, old gmail.com to create my new account, with the pseudonym garyrc--the original.  I'd prefer to go back to using my old account if there is an easy  a way, because, otherwise, I'm restricted to one message per day for a while.  Can you advise me? 

[robert_kc]

7 hours ago, the real Duke Spinner said:

You realize that You are opting for a " filter"....depending on the Tube. ??

6L6 may be considered to accentuate Bass Freqs ...EL84, mids

My goal for the sound quality of recorded classical music played via my home hi-fi systems is to have the illusion that I’m in the symphony hall or opera house where classical music is performed live, with no electronics involved (i.e., no sound reinforcement system).  

 
If 6L6GC tubes help me achieve that goal, then c'est la vie.
 

[Zen Traveler]

2 hours ago, garyrc -- the original said:

Yes, I couldn't get into my old account, with aol.com...

I had that happen to me. We'll see how fast Chad's replacements can bring you up to speed...

[Shakeydeal]

7 hours ago, robert_kc said:

My goal for the sound quality of recorded classical music played via my home hi-fi systems is to have the illusion that I’m in the symphony hall or opera house where classical music is performed live, with no electronics involved (i.e., no sound reinforcement system).  

 
If 6L6GC tubes help me achieve that goal, then c'est la vie.
 

Yes, tubes with horns will always bring you closer to the music than SS can.

[OO1]

12 hours ago, garyrc -- the original said:

 

Yes, I couldn't get into my old account, with aol.com, my longstanding portal.  Here is my old data:  

garyrc

Regulars

1886

• Joined

  January 22, 2003

• Posts

  4186

• So, I finally was able to use my wife's old, old gmail.com to create my new account, with the pseudonym garyrc--the original.  I'd prefer to go back to using my old account if there is an easy  a way, because, otherwise, I'm restricted to one message per day for a while.  Can you advise me? 

 

 

with 3 more posts  , you can PM   @jbabad    @gansd  @gaugenstein

  ask them to merge   @garyrc -- the original   with @garyrc    

 

 

 

[Iteachstem]

On 8/11/2023 at 11:33 AM, dtel said:

You youngsters these days, some little bookshelf speakers

Not even bookshelf speakers.... a lot of my students are using airpods or sending it to some cheap bluetooth speaker.

 

In one of the units I teach we talk about wavelength, frequency, peaks, etc.  and of course, with my love of audio, I extend this part as much as I can!  I always end up bringing into the conversation home stereos/speakers as an example.  ( I show them the picture of my set-up with my old RF-83's!) Students used to relate pretty well when I would talk about stereo systems in their homes or ones they might see walking through the big box stores.  You would see a lot of them make those connections and tell the class about the many times their parents told them to "turn that garbage down!" when they were playing their music too loud.  Well, in the last 10 er so years, fewer students each year understood what I was talking about when I was referring to a "Home stereo system" as most of them just said they listened on their phones or they connected to a tiny bluetooth speaker (if) when they had their friends over.

 

It's pretty sad that only a few students each year now will take the time to tell me about their parents cool stereo system.  It usually starts off something like this, "In the basement my dad has..." Of course I thank them for sharing and try to encourage them, if they are interested, to ask their parents to show them their system in more detail.

 

Also, on more than one occasion, I had parents email asking me what speakers I use in the classroom, as their child wanted a pair for Christmas or their birthday.  Unfortunately, I have to tell them that it is a Dell 2.1 computer speaker system that came with the classroom computers when the school was opened in 2003! 

 

So I was thinking, wouldn't it be an awesome way for kids to see and hear their first "real" audio system and it be from Klipsch?!?!?!  (and can anyone say years of free advertising to thousands of future audio enthusiasts??) Perhaps everyone that is interested in helping me with this on the forum can get together and figure out a way to raise enough $$ so I can have a small set of Klipsch powered speakers in the front of the classroom instead of some 20 year old Dells!  Just a thought.  Perhaps a B quality set of the Fives, R-50pm's, etc?  Or, perhaps, if Klipsch wants to donate a set of powered speakers, I will provide my schools tax form so they can use it as a tax deduction!

 

Maybe it's just a pipe dream, but I thought it would be a cool opportunity for thousands of kids to hear awesome audio in my classroom!

[Dave1291]

I haven't had any problems for about 20 years with any form of altered sound.  Happened soon after I divorced the wife.  Strange...  

[dtel]

2 hours ago, Dave1291 said:

I haven't had any problems for about 20 years with any form of altered sound.  Happened soon after I divorced the wife.  Strange...  

Alot less of a squawker around the house, PWK always said "we live in the midrange" but I doubt he would want that much of it. 

[garyrc -- the original]

12 hours ago, OO1 said:

 

 

with 3 more posts  , you can PM   @jbabad    @gansd  @gaugenstein

  ask them to merge   @garyrc -- the original   with @garyrc    

 

 

 

Good!  I'll look forward to it!

[Marvel]

10 hours ago, Iteachstem said:

 

So I was thinking, wouldn't it be an awesome way for kids to see and hear their first "real" audio system and it be from Klipsch?!?!?!

While working a a small college, a forum member contacted me and donated a pair of MWMs to the school. I knew exactly where they could be placed. They had a large rehearsal room under the chapel, where the  chorale and others would rehearse. They would try to sing along with music played through some small Polk speakers with 8 inch woofers. The speakers couldn't  ompete very well with 30+ voices, of a group of instruments.

 

I had some horns that we could get set up with the MWMs, but the music dept. said it would sound like a PA system.  They wouldn't even try it.

 

They went into a closet for four years until they told me they would give them to me, just to get rid of them. I was no longer employed there, but did get them home and enjoy the incredible clarity and fidelity.  I've since sold them (for a reasonable price), but am still amazed that the music dept. wouldn't give them a chance.

[dtel]

14 hours ago, Marvel said:

but am still amazed that the music dept. wouldn't give them a chance.

Well they lost out, unless it was a really small space sounds like they knew about music production but not music reproduction, just silly.