Heresy I vs IV (restore or buy new)?

[klipschhornfan]

Has anyone compared Heresy I (especially with alnico drivers) to IV?  Does the latest IV run circles around the I?  I'm asking because I have a pair of H1 with alnicos.  They sound fabulous with tubes (lifelike jazz vocal) but the cabinets look beat up.  A very clean pair of H1s as cabinet donors are getting expensive these days.  I'm debating if it's really worth the trouble chasing clean H1s for restoration as brand new B-stock IVs can be had for ~$2400.  Any thoughts?  Thanks. 

Edited August 27, 2023 by klipschhornfan

[Ceptorman]

I think those H1s deserve to look their best. They are spectacular speakers. 

[OO1]

1 hour ago, klipschhornfan said:

 H1 

  you  cant go wrong ....

[MeloManiac]

3 hours ago, klipschhornfan said:

Has anyone compared Heresy I (especially with alnico drivers) to IV?  Does the latest IV run circles around the I?  I'm asking because I have a pair of H1 with alnicos.  They sound fabulous with tubes (lifelike jazz vocal) but the cabinets look beat up.  A very clean pair of H1s as cabinet donors are getting expensive these days.  I'm debating if it's really worth the trouble chasing clean H1s for restoration as brand new B-stock IVs can be had for ~$2400.  Any thoughts?  Thanks. 

 

It really depends on how 'beat up' they are. A picture would help to assess that...

 

I own 1972 Heresies, and when I bought them, they looked beat up too (flowerpot rings and beer glass rings on their top sides, some minor scratches etc.) I invested in some oxalic acid (to remove the rings), walnut oil and beewax, and replaced the caps myself, I guess I invested maybe $25 in that, and I've enjoyed them ever since. Sure, the IVs will sound slightly better, but you say you're happy with them as they are, so why not stick with them (and perhaps fall in love with them, like I did?). 

 

[Peter P.]

Are you capable of refurbishing the cabinets yourself? If it's a project within your skill range then yes, they are worth keeping.

 

If you don't have the skills you can always have a local woodworking shop re-veneer the cabinets for you.

 

The Heresy IV does have greater low end extension and efficiency so on paper it is a worthwhile upgrade. But if you don't need the

extra output and you use a subwoofer, it's all a moot point.

 

Let's see pics of your cabinets.

[klipschhornfan]

How good are IV's in reproducing the double bass?  I don't use sub and find H1's double bass reproduction on the weak side (one note) and lacking extension.

 

Here are some pics of my cabinets.  Looks like the previous owner used paint stripper on one of them and abandoned the project.  Also some corners are not sharp or dented.

Edited August 27, 2023 by klipschhornfan

[jcn3]

On 8/27/2023 at 1:57 PM, klipschhornfan said:

How good are IV's in reproducing the double bass?  I don't use sub and find H1's double bass reproduction on the weak side (one note) and lacking extension.

 

Here are some pics of my cabinets.  Looks like the previous owner used paint stripper on one of them and abandoned the project.  Also some corners are not sharp or dented.

 

those cabinets are not in bad shape at all!  have some fun with them.  won't be difficult at all and the results will be fantastic.

 

the h1s with the alnico drivers are magic -- i found that on the floor (with risers) and close to the wall (as designed) provided plenty of bass (although maybe not enough for double bass . . . )

[Idontknow]

I'd just refurbish the cabinets and save your money. The only think the IV offers more of is the bottom end and even then in order to make it more audible, they would have to be turned up more. New Heritage series are overpriced. The midrange and top end is nicer in the earlier models in my opinion. In my friends room which isn't acrostically treated, so I prefer the IV because the top end is slightly softer sounding. 

[OO1]

On 8/27/2023 at 1:57 PM, klipschhornfan said:

How good are IV's in reproducing the double bass?  I don't use sub and find H1's double bass reproduction on the weak side (one note) and lacking extension.

 

Here are some pics of my cabinets 

Heresy IV will deliver    more bass  than the H1 because of the larger cabinet and a 4 Ohms woofer  ,   you can always buy a K-28  4 Ohms woofer from klipsch Parts  to have more  bass , no modifications needed ,

 

the cabs are in great shape ,   but they do need refinishing ,  the previous owner used mineral spirits 50-50 with steel wool to  remove the dark stain   

[JohnA]

On 8/27/2023 at 9:19 AM, klipschhornfan said:

Has anyone compared Heresy I (especially with alnico drivers) to IV?  Does the latest IV run circles around the I?  I'm asking because I have a pair of H1 with alnicos.  ........ Any thoughts?  Thanks. 

 

Yes, H IVs run circles around H 1s (I had 7 at one time and still have 3 in my HT system).  H IVs are much more natural sounding and better on vocals, especially.  H IVs do not need a subwoofer, though open E on a double/electric bass is down a little compared to G, but not so much you might not think the song is recorded that way. 

[gigantic]

Heresy IV will run circles around Heresy I: the tweeters are far superior, the mid horn is better, as is the woofer and the crossover network is better tuned. Further, the H-4 offers better bass extension- the ported cabinets dip into the 40Hz range, compared to the mass roll-off of the H1, which is above 50Hz. That said, your Heresy 1 have a lot going for them: the cabinets are  made of real wood and many prefer the K55 squawker driver to anything Klipsch has used since. There are things you can do to make them better: first and foremost, the gaskets between the mid horn and driver are dried out and are probably adding sibilance to the sound- it's super easy to replace them. Your capacitors are likely due for a refresh- even if they measure well, their ESR has probably drifted into undesirable territory. It's not difficult to replace them yourself and there are options if you don't want to break out the soldering iron. you may or may not find improvements in replacing the tweeter diaphragms, they are a known weak link in vintage heritage speakers. Lastly, your cabinets would respond well to being refinished- I've seen far worse. without delving into mods, refreshing your Heresy 1 will improve the sound, but the Heresy Four is better in nearly every conceivable way.

 

[Bacek]

1 hour ago, gigantic said:

and many prefer the K55 squawker driver to anything Klipsch has used since.

Count me for that. I can't say much about IV's as this is slightly different beast but I prefer I over II and III.

[OO1]

 the H III and H IV maximum spl is 116dB Continuous  , the Heresy 1 is only 96dB continuous on a good day with new crossovers, and drivers , fast forward 40+ years  of wear , it' s  way off .

 

what do  these specs  mean , simple , a 3rd  generation Heresy III is  a more advanced Heresy   vs the 1st or second generation ,  and the Heresy IV is even better 

 

 

 

 

 

[PrestonTom]

1 hour ago, OO1 said:

 the H III and H IV sensitivity  are both at  116dB Continuous  , the Heresy 1 is only 96dB continuous on a good day with new crossovers, and drivers , fast forward 40+ years  of wear , it' s  way off .

 

what do  these specs  mean , simple , a 3rd  generation Heresy III is  a more advanced Heresy   vs the 1st or second generation ,  and the Heresy IV is even better 

 

 

 

 

 

If the manufacturer is actually stating that the cabinets have 116 dB sensitivity, then do the following three things:  1) read the fine print, 2) take that number with a huge grain of salt, 3) put your wallet back in your pocket (if the "sensitivity" is important to you). 

[jjptkd]

2 hours ago, OO1 said:

 the H III and H IV sensitivity  are both at  116dB Continuous  , the Heresy 1 is only 96dB continuous on a good day with new crossovers, and drivers , fast forward 40+ years  of wear , it' s  way off .

 

 You're obviously confusing max output with sensitivity here on the III & IV which should be 99db @ 1 watt compared to the 96db of the H-1. 

[Bacek]

Yep, +3dB over H1 is also niece if efficiency is what you are looking for. 

[haydukej]

On 8/27/2023 at 7:19 AM, klipschhornfan said:

new B-stock IVs can be had for ~$2400.  Any thoughts?  Thanks. 

For $2,400, I have a nice set of 78' La Scalas  (Denver area) with granite tops for you and you can just call it a day.

[OO1]

6 hours ago, jjptkd said:

 

 You're obviously confusing max output 

  my mistake