How do I tame the harshness of the RF-7's

[Speedball]

Cool!

I am considering the Rf7's and the only other option at the dealer is the Paradigm 100's.

My P-digm 40's sound mighty harsh and boxy.

[KathyMason]

Wow Jerry, and I thought you would be one of the last to upgrade your crossovers!

Coming from you, I'll have to take this serious. I guess when things get more

into place for myself, I'll have to see about getting on DeanG's list possibly, sometime in

the near future.

I just can't imagine getting any better than what I'm getting, but it sounds very

possible by your nice description of noticed changes. I dont understand the graininess

though, Im not experiencing that with the Rotel RB-1090, RC-1090, and RCD-1072 combo??

Keep me posted on the changes, Im interested! Thanks for the info!!!

[--udson]

"I have always used Denon stereo recievers for the last 12 years or so with my Klipsch 4.2's. Have always been very happy with the sound until recently the crossovers were changed and there was a very noticable difference. It is a hobby, not a necessity. The klipsches are so revealing the changes in amplification are noticable whether it be Yamaha Denon or whatever.

If you are happy with the Yamaha Klipsch combo then fantastic, I was happy with Denon for 12 years. Thats all that matters."

sorry speedball I missed this post. Thanks for the encouragement. They certainly sounded awesome to me on the yammy. Hopefully I'll get to see what it's like at home soon. Still waiting on some speakers and the receiver which was misrouted via rail.

[Speedball]

You're welcome Hudson,

I'm contemplating the RF7's now and my only amplification is a Denon reciever by itself or used as a pre with a 120 watt Sonographe (conrad johnson) stereo amp.

If I get these 7's, later on down the road I suppose I could try one of those Carver's with a tube pre or possibly the Rotel or even some older rebuilt stuff. Seems a lot of people are happy with what they own and have some convincing stories to go along with it.

lol..seems there are many different ways to power those 7's depending on ones own needs and preferences.

I'm keeping an eye on this thread...sure are some happy customers with this particular speaker....also anxious to hear how you like your system once it's in place.

............See Ya.

[JewishAMerPrince]

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On 5/15/2005 7:45:55 PM KathyMason wrote:

I dont understand the graininess

though, Im not experiencing that with the Rotel RB-1090, RC-1090, and RCD-1072 combo??

Keep me posted on the changes, Im interested! Thanks for the info!!!

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Kathy,

The graininess wasn't obvious till I was able to hear the speakers without it!

Jerry

[imperfectcircle25]

I dont understand all the people who spend big bucks paying someone to upgrade thier xovers. If you can solder you can do it urelf for way less money. Nothing against Dean, but its true. All ya gotta do is basically take the Xover our unsolder the old caps and replace them with something better like Auricaps or Hovlands. If you want you can also replace the resitors with some high quality Mills or similar. Its very easy, i did the Xovers on myRF-3's and it definitly made them sound better, more detail and smoother sound. Again nothing against DEAN as his sevice is very reaonable for the people who dont feel omfortable doing it themselves.

[Speedball]

You answered you first sentence question with your last sentence answer.

I did it to see if they would be worth keeping.......they are.

It certainly didnt seem like big bucks to me, considering it would have cost a heck of a lot more to buy something else.

[Olorin]

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On 5/18/2005 11:50:54 AM imperfectcircle25 wrote:

I dont understand all the people who spend big bucks paying someone to upgrade thier xovers. If you can solder you can do it urelf for way less money. Nothing against Dean, but its true. All ya gotta do is basically take the Xover our unsolder the old caps and replace them with something better like Auricaps or Hovlands. If you want you can also replace the resitors with some high quality Mills or similar. Its very easy, i did the Xovers on myRF-3's and it definitly made them sound better, more detail and smoother sound. Again nothing against DEAN as his sevice is very reaonable for the people who dont feel omfortable doing it themselves.

----------------

I don't understand all the people who spend big bucks paying someone to build their computers. If you can assemble them you can do it yourself for way less money. Nothing against Dell, but it's true. All you really have to do is know what to buy and where to buy it, and then just put it together. You can use a basic video card or something batter like an ATI Radeon. If you want you can also replace the onboard NIC with a high speed Intel or 3Com. It's very easy, I've built a lot of them, and they run way better than the Dell, faster and more reliable. Again nothing against Dell as their machines are very reasonable for the people who don't feel comfortable doing it themselves.

I don't understand all the people who spend big bucks paying someone to do their taxes.

I don't understand all the people who spend big bucks paying someone to fix their cars.

I don't understand all the people who spend big bucks paying someone to represent them in legal matters.

I don't understand all the people who spend big bucks paying someone to handle their medical care.

I don't understand all the people who think specialized knowledge and skills don't have value to those who lack them.

[Frzninvt]

"I dont understand all the people who spend big bucks paying someone to upgrade thier xovers. If you can solder you can do it urelf for way less money. Nothing against Dean, but its true. All ya gotta do is basically take the Xover our unsolder the old caps and replace them with something better like Auricaps or Hovlands. If you want you can also replace the resitors with some high quality Mills or similar. Its very easy, i did the Xovers on myRF-3's and it definitly made them sound better, more detail and smoother sound. Again nothing against DEAN as his sevice is very reaonable for the people who dont feel omfortable doing it themselves."

Maybe because some people do not have the time or a decent table or work bench to perform the upgrades! I had Dean do mine and I am a certified Electro-Mechanical technician. It is not as easy as you make it sound, you need the pre-cut wood boards/planks, wire ties, a hot glue gun, crimps, power drill & drill bits, a good heat regulated soldering iron, a stable work surface, good lighting, and some experience at this kind of stuff. Could I have done it myself, yes more than likely but if you have ever seen DeanG's total price breakdown you will see he certainly does not make a bundle for the work he does. In addition, he has done so many now, he knows what works and what does not, what fits and what does not, etc.

My system has reached new levels thanks to the work of DeanG and Chris Munson, did the networks make a difference - hah! I won't even dignify that with a response.

[Luxman]

I have tried everything to tame my RF-7s. I just spent $3,000 modifying my $, 1000 player and it sounds wonderful except the horns still hurt my ears. I did the crossover mod last year, but last week I took them apart just too double check my work. Everything looks correct. The only thing odd is my horns are not wired out of polarity. I thought I had seen a diagram where the horns are wired out of polarity but its been a while and that could have been a different speaker. Through all of my upgrades and room treatments over the years the horns sound much better. They are not as bright with my Jolida but my Modwright Oppo sounds wonderful except I must keep the volume down or my ears hurt from the horns. Any advice will be very well appreciated.

[SWL]

I have tried everything to tame my RF-7’s

I sold mine and bought KLF-30's. They're everything you want from your 7's for two-channel listening....and more since they are a three-way speaker. The RF-7's were phenomenal for movies, though. [Y]

[CECAA850]

I have tried everything to tame my RF-7’s. I just spent $3,000 modifying my $, 1000 player and it sounds wonderful except the horns still hurt my ears. I did the crossover mod last year, but last week I took them apart just too double check my work. Everything looks correct. The only thing odd is my horns are not wired out of polarity. I thought I had seen a diagram where the horns are wired out of polarity but it’s been a while and that could have been a different speaker. Through all of my upgrades and room treatments over the years the horns sound much better. They are not as bright with my Jolida but my Modwright Oppo sounds wonderful except I must keep the volume down or my ears hurt from the horns. Any advice will be very well appreciated.

Something's not right. I can play mine at concert levels where you can't talk to the person next to you and they're not fatiguing. Describe the room your speakers are in and your electronics.

[Luxman]

I am in a finished basement. Behind my drywall is mostly the concrete foundation. However I have treated the room with a lot of traps. I find side wall first reflections different with my RF-7s (I assume because of horn directivity) than convictional speakers. But mostly find they don't exist. My room is horrible for bass. After months and hundreds of hours eq-ing. moving subs and bass traps around, I gave up and ended up using my DTS-10s near field right behind the couch. The sound is directional and I dont like it but it is better than the deep room nulls I have. I recently changed some gear and have two new racks full of my equipment. I will play with the trap placement some more and see what happens. The locations of the racks may be part of the problem but I have had my RF-7s for about ten years through two houses and have always experienced this problem unless I use tone controls or eq. I have made many changes and a long period of not listening. I regret that I did not make one change at a time. Anyway, my equipment is listed below. The RF-7s are not quite 7 feet apart and my listing distant is about 7 and ½ feet away. Although I have played around with it, at this time they are toed in directly toward the center of the couch. I have all channels from my modified Oppo BDP-95 going into the 7.1 direct inputs on my Marantz. My Luxman and Jolida connect analog into one of the Marantz aux inputs and I only play using pure direct mode. I can run in stereo and use tone controls, but I lose my audiophile quality sound. Home theater sounds stunning; its only two channel audio that I find the top end bright. I have tried so many different things to improve the RF-7s I dont think I can afford to do any more nor do I have the energy. I may have to save and purchase different speakers for two channel if I have the room for both speakers.

[Fish]

At 7ft apart and 7ft from you those 7's should sound really bad, if they don't that's pretty amazing.I've always thought they need a large space and minimum

8 ft apart, mine are 15ft and it's great.

[Luxman]

I always under stood that you should place the speakers apart approximately the same distance as from the center listing location to one speaker, making an equilateral triangle. But I can understand since these are not conventional speakers. That is something I have not experimented since making several various changes to my gear and room. I dont have a wide range of choices because of room constraints, but I will experiment with them this week. Thanks for the info.

[CECAA850]

Sounds mostly like a room issue, changing speakers probably won't help. Does your receiver have any type of room correction software? Is the room carpeted?

[CECAA850]

I just re-read your response. If HT sounds stunning but 2 channel doesn't, it may not be the speakers or the room. It may be your source.

[Zen Traveler]

.... I can run in stereo and use tone controls, but I lose my “audiophile” quality sound. Home theater sounds stunning; it’s only two channel audio that I find the top end “bright”. I have tried so many different things to improve the RF-7’s I don’t think I can afford to do any more nor do I have the energy. I may have to save and purchase different speakers for two channel if I have the room for both speakers.

Luxman, I am not familiar with your gear except the RF-7s, but I sit 9 ft away and they are 9 ft apart. I also like the directionality of the horns because mine are close to the walls and I don't want that reflection...I also had to place my RSW-15 subwoofer behind me and when I did my lower end was directional so I corrected that by putting a smaller RSW-12 in front, on a side wall in a less than ideal location, but it smoothed out my bass considerably...Fwiw, I can't imagine having a second set of speakers in the same room for music...For 2 channel I use my subs to take up the bottom end and the only things that sound bright is material that isn't well recorded.

Btw, did you purchase the RF-7s already modded by Dean or did you decide to do it after purchasing them...If so, why?

EDIT:

I just re-read your respomse. If HT sounds stunning but 2 channel doesn't, it may not be the speakers or the room. It may be your source.

+1

[Deang]

See his sig. He found the parts list and did the work himself. It's hard to screw up unless you're a complete hack.

"I can run in stereo and use tone controls, but I lose my “audiophile” quality sound. Home theater sounds stunning; it’s only two channel audio that I find the top end “bright”. I have tried so many different things to improve the RF-7’s I don’t think I can afford to do any more nor do I have the energy."

Garbage in garbage out. The great majority of readily available 2-channel material is barely fit for a Bose system. Unless you have a nice library of well recorded material, horns will overwhelm you with their unforgiving nature. Horns force you to seek out good recordings, and it can be a frustrating process. If DVDs and Blu-rays are knocking you out of your seat (and I highly suggest getting some good DVD and Blu-ray concert discs) -- that's the only indicator you need -- it's not the source components, room, or speakers. So +1 on what CECAA850 said.

[Luxman]

Thank you for everyones responses. DeanG just confirmed a suspension I have had for quite some time. lynyrd skynyrd endangered species is an all-acoustic disk with Johnny Van Zant as lead. I can play this CD for hours with no fatigue. The same with Diana Krall - The look of Love in DVD-A. Rives Audio test CD 2 is one of the best 2-ch CDs I have played on my system. It is my understanding that each song on the Rives CD was recorded at Mapleshade Records. It looks like they sell a lot of audio voodoo fixes but I plan to do some more research on their music recordings. The reason I upgraded my crossovers was for the same reason I posted on this thread. The problem I had with the mod, is that I did the mod while upgrading my entire system at the same time, then had a long period where I was working very long hours. This made it almost impossible for me to compare the mod. One thing is for sure, it did not make it worse and I am pretty confident the mod helped my situation. I will not keep my system the way it is. Its too difficult and expensive to find good recordings. I will either find another pair of speakers to compliment my RF-7s or sell them. I will spend lots of time doing lots of research before I do anything else, but I will probably end up keeping the RF-7s for home theater and something else for 2-ch music. I just spent $1,200 or so, on my RC-64 II and sold my RC-7. By the way I really enjoy my new center speaker. I always felt like something was missing or too little sound from too small of an area with the dialog. I dont have that with the RC-64 II. There is a timber difference but the advantages outweigh the sound differences. I want to pull the trigger on RF-7 IIs but from everything I have read and phone calls to Klipsch, I suspect it will be a mistake and I will be in the same boat.