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OK, time for me to sound off. I valued my relationship with Mark Deneen. I learned much about debate and other things from him and our discussions were extremely stimulating. I miss them. However, there came a time when I perceived he was a danger to this Forum. I value a LOT of relationships on this Forum and had to take a stand. I chose the Forum. I am not sorry. The moderators here are all voluntary. We are not Navy Seals. We make mistakes and try to learn from them. But I respect all who serve now and those who've stepped down for various reasons. Chad isn't Amy. He has to man the engine room as well as maintain order. He has my respect for putting up with all this and for listening to us as well as the Forum members. He provides guidance but doesn't order us around. We take more grief than you can imagine. But it's worth it for those who love and respect the heritage of Paul Wilbur Klipsch. As to "intellectual property," that whole line is crap. Once posted, it's public domain. Mark should be grateful that Klipsch and Chad went to considerable trouble to delete it as he had no right to ask nor did they have any obligation to do so. Frankly, I cannot conceive of writing that much stuff then asking for it to be destroyed. Having been a part of it I know much of it was really quite valuable. Worse, thousands of responses to his work went with it he had no right to have any say over. I don't do grudges. I wish Mark, and all who leave this place for perceived grievances long life and prosperity. I miss them all. But the Forum will go on. We'll meet in Hope in May and I'll hug everyone who will allow it as there is nothing "virtual" about my love for the people here. It's my hope this all just goes away very soon. Dave

This is my favorite sled....

The "new normal" is that there is no longer a predictable normal. In Southeast Michigan we've had less snow than Wash.. D.C. this winter. That is crazy. I cancelled two of my snowmobile trips to the UP for lack of snow, I'll bet they're hurting up north. My best buddy and a group of friends started going to Colorado every year to ride snowmobiles instead about 5 years ago. Roger My brother has been to Colorado, Montana, and a few other places to ride. He would fly out and rent a sled. It's more of a husband/wife vacation than a serious snowmobile ride. It's just too far when there's 6-10 of us going and you're towing a 20' enclosed trailer with four sleds. It's more of a powdery type of snow out west. Breaking trails open through the mountains is fun but I prefer the hard packed cross country trails of Michigan. I know the speedometers are off but I've seen 120mph before on a Michigan trail. Even the sleds are different out west. A Polaris RMK (Rocky Mountain King) is a much long machine than standard. It's track is about 16" longer, for stability. There's something special about riding in northern Wisconsin and the UP of Michigan, they take their sledding serious, probably because it's about the only thing going on in the winter up there. Michigan has over 6k miles of trails. Even the lower part of Michigan isn't nearly as much fun. I have ridden 350 miles in a day before in the UP. Plus we blend in with the local auto traffic. It's also about ease of traveling, and cost. If there isn't a blizzard, I can get to the UP in 10 hours pulling a trailer. You get me talking about sleds, I'll be here all night I will say this…..I grew up on dirt bikes, quads, jet skis, street bikes, gokarts, and I even raced bikes on asphalt road courses, but NOTHING is as much fun to ride than a snowmobile! My brother Dave just picked up a new Skidoo, 800cc 2stroke twin. It weighs 410 pounds and has 170 hp, and it's stock. 2.5 lbs per hp is very impressive

I think the best thing Mark can do is start his own forum and stop trying to save this "Dying Audio Forum" I've noticed a pattern by some members that they seem to want to start something then claim to be the victim later as an excuse for their behavior....I call This forum is made up of everyone's efforts and time they put into it and if you don't like what you see then step up and participate in a positive manner or at a minimum I suggest you quit your whining..!!!! Anyone who thinks they or what they have to contribute is so important that if they leave it will fall apart needs a heavy dose of REALITY...!!!! IMHO the best exchanges of Ideas, Experiences, and Knowledge is achieved when everyone shows respect to each other and if by chance you find during one of these exchanges that you were wrong you might not feel so stupid later.... Hang in there Doomsday isn't here yet contrary to what some would have us believe. miketn

Afternoon gang... Man all this crazy talk about high powered snowmobiles, watercraft and motorbikes...."you guys is crazy"......lol lol.... Never got into the two wheel thing...but my dad on the other hand was a racing nut...he road raced until his late 60's....I talked him outta it...it would scare my mom...and I must admit I saw him race a few times and he was quite good for an "old" guy...he raced in a vintage class. I did more of the off road trail riding in my old Toyota LandCruiser...some of that shitt would scare the hell outta The BOSS....she hated steep hills and off camber....she would yell "were gonna roll over" ....lol lol... Working on a make of care today that's only been in the shop three times in the last 17 years....a VW... I don't do European cars!! Used car guys asked me to put a "low washer fluid sensor" in it for them...so I'm like ok I'll do that for ya...but that's it...The used car guys really don't sell European cars a lot... A good day to all....check in later... MKP :-)

KC area - 20 miles W in KS. About 10 miles from the Legends shopping area, NASCAR track, Cabelas and about every chain restaurant I can name.

My late uncle used to water race an old Rupp when I was just a kid My cousin owned a V-Max sled and it was an eye opener. He had an aftermarket Clutch, pipe, plastic ski bottoms, and a lot of cleats in the tread. That is the fastest sled I have manned personally. I think he rides some wankal engine Ski doo these days. I also have a buddy that is sponsored by a local dealer. He rides kitty kats and used to have one of the built 1,000 cc Artic Cats on nitrous. I think his present sled is a 700cc turbo on Methanol injection? He put 14 coats of paint on my bike tins for me My best friend farms 4,500 acres and is worth well into 8 figures. There are about 7 of them, all millionaires, and they just fly out and rent big sleds with really long tracks. I have been invited several times but just haven't justified the coin yet. I don't like renting a damn thing, I would rather buy and have something to show for my money, and my pockets are no way as deep as theirs. Roger I remember a Rupp Nitro. Clutch work is probably the best route of performance gains on a sled, there's an art to getting those things dialed in. I remember hearing a piped and jetted Vmax sled once, it sounded like an late 80s Indycar! If I remember correctly, the 700 was a triple and the 800 was a quad. That puppy would launch real good for what it was Roger

My late uncle used to water race an old Rupp when I was just a kid My cousin owned a V-Max sled and it was an eye opener. He had an aftermarket Clutch, pipe, plastic ski bottoms, and a lot of cleats in the tread. That is the fastest sled I have manned personally. I think he rides some wankal engine Ski doo these days. I also have a buddy that is sponsored by a local dealer. He rides kitty kats and used to have one of the built 1,000 cc Artic Cats on nitrous. I think his present sled is a 700cc turbo on Methanol injection? He put 14 coats of paint on my bike tins for me My best friend farms 4,500 acres and is worth well into 8 figures. There are about 7 of them, all millionaires, and they just fly out and rent big sleds with really long tracks. I have been invited several times but just haven't justified the coin yet. I don't like renting a damn thing, I would rather buy and have something to show for my money, and my pockets are no way as deep as theirs. Roger I remember a Rupp Nitro. Clutch work is probably the best route of performance gains on a sled, there's an art to getting those things dialed in. I remember hearing a piped and jetted Vmax sled once, it sounded like an late 80s Indycar! Don't remember the Rupp model, but it had a big carb with large aluminum velocity stack that came out into the middle of your crotch! there was actually a cut out made into the seat to accommodate it. Roger

My late uncle used to water race an old Rupp when I was just a kid My cousin owned a V-Max sled and it was an eye opener. He had an aftermarket Clutch, pipe, plastic ski bottoms, and a lot of cleats in the tread. That is the fastest sled I have manned personally. I think he rides some wankal engine Ski doo these days. I also have a buddy that is sponsored by a local dealer. He rides kitty kats and used to have one of the built 1,000 cc Artic Cats on nitrous. I think his present sled is a 700cc turbo on Methanol injection? He put 14 coats of paint on my bike tins for me My best friend farms 4,500 acres and is worth well into 8 figures. There are about 7 of them, all millionaires, and they just fly out and rent big sleds with really long tracks. I have been invited several times but just haven't justified the coin yet. I don't like renting a damn thing, I would rather buy and have something to show for my money, and my pockets are no way as deep as theirs. Roger I remember a Rupp Nitro. Clutch work is probably the best route of performance gains on a sled, there's an art to getting those things dialed in. I remember hearing a piped and jetted Vmax sled once, it sounded like an late 80s Indycar!

I'm a motel kind of a guy, as is the wife. No, the BMW bike is actually like a BMW car - on any road. If it Had to be a Cadillac it would be a CTS -V. It's actually a overly large sport bike when stripped of the top and side cases, a 3 minute job. Six of the smoothest 160hp you can imagine. Three power modes, traction/launch control, of course Brembo/Bosch ABS, cruise, heated grips/seats, GPS/satellite radio, etc. Funny now that I have retired I ride less than I did when working. Go figure. The Hope run will be nice as we travel around Ark. 2-3 times each year. The absolute best roads within easy reach of KC.

My late uncle used to water race an old Rupp when I was just a kid My cousin owned a V-Max sled and it was an eye opener. He had an aftermarket Clutch, pipe, plastic ski bottoms, and a lot of cleats in the tread. That is the fastest sled I have manned personally. I think he rides some wankal engine Ski doo these days. I also have a buddy that is sponsored by a local dealer. He rides kitty kats and used to have one of the built 1,000 cc Artic Cats on nitrous. I think his present sled is a 700cc turbo on Methanol injection? He put 14 coats of paint on my bike tins for me My best friend farms 4,500 acres and is worth well into 8 figures. There are about 7 of them, all millionaires, and they just fly out and rent big sleds with really long tracks. I have been invited several times but just haven't justified the coin yet. I don't like renting a damn thing, I would rather buy and have something to show for my money, and my pockets are no way as deep as theirs. Roger

To all others (who aren't Mark Deneen) - I apologize that the silly, childish behavior of one person has soured some of the conversations around here and in turn affected my own behavior on occasion. I wish to move on, unlike Mark (who even said last year after I deleted his content, "I'm happy that Chad deleted my content as requested so I can move on cleanly to another site." - and we see how long that lasted...) And regardless of his blog which is truly a laugh riot and speaks volumes to who he really is, I shall speak no more of this man who in all reality means nothing to me. Let him talk to himself on his blog all he wants. We should perhaps all do him a solid and stop giving him the attention he so craves. This forum community is so far from "dead" - we are looking at possible record numbers for our gathering in Hope this year - I think that says enough. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I'm also sorry to see Dean go. I hope he checks in from time to time. I know he's provided some great info and guidance to others here for quite some time. Thanks to those who stood up for me a little. It wasn't really necessary, but it is appreciated. With that, I lock this thread. You are welcome to continue the "Intellectual Property" discussion in a new thread of course. Thanks

Good morning my friends................ Ok, I guess I will get a little into the sled talk - as I have noticed Ceptor is very much into it..... So, for me, I bought my first snowmobile in 1980 and BRAND NEW. It was the first sled made by one of the big four with an independent front end.... So, some trivia for ya, Ceptor your first guess counts, will it be correct? (you won't have to go looking it up on the net, as you must already know.....NO cheating !) Enjoy the day everyone ...........Gary

Just curious Roger, have you ridden a late model snowmobile? With your love of HP and speed, I'm sure you would like it. Another Brother of mine has a Yamaha sled that they shoehorned an 1000cc R1 motorcycle engine into it, it's a 4 stroke, gets great mileage but is kind of heavy. Back in the late 80s, early 90s, Yamaha made a Vmax snowmobile. It was originally a 700cc then an 800cc V4 2 stroke, it was scary fast. A lot of guys would drag race them up at Brainerd Raceway in Mn in warm weather on asphalt. They would put small wheels on the skis. That Vmax engine might be the best sounding sled ever made. I'm a V4 motorcycle guy myself. I've had about every V4 Honda ever made at some point. Rode a Vmax a few times, nice smooth power rush when the Vboost kicks in, but it was stock. I can imagine what your bike is like to ride.

The "new normal" is that there is no longer a predictable normal. In Southeast Michigan we've had less snow than Wash.. D.C. this winter. That is crazy. I cancelled two of my snowmobile trips to the UP for lack of snow, I'll bet they're hurting up north. My best buddy and a group of friends started going to Colorado every year to ride snowmobiles instead about 5 years ago. Roger

Never finished it to where I was ready to dyno it It was at my buddy Jon Cornell's shop for over a year, and unfortunately he is dead from lung cancer now I already have two spare engines to start a build on a real engine, but I definitely lost steam on the project! If I had to guess, I would guess it at about 185 rear wheel. Stock 1198cc engines are in the 110 HP range at the rear wheel. I could dump more nitrous but the bottom end won't take it. The cranks start breaking, but I feel the real problem is the main caps. A few real serious guys have added girdles. 220 at the rear wheel is the highest rear wheel that I have heard of from an all engine early bike, and as we know, nitrous is murder on the bottom end compared to an all motor or turbo bike You can check out my dead buddies shop, his wife still owns it. Just do a search for UFO V-Gas. Jon drove the worlds fastest Top Alcohol bike around 79 / early 80's, with a best of 7.13 in the quarter back then. He also had a 7 second big bore ZX-11 on nitrous, had the first Harley twin cam in the 10s, and later, the first Harley twin cam into the 9's. Jon also built and owned the first second generation V-Max in the 8's. He still owned all of these bikes plus a collection of iconic bikes. The name on his old Top Alcohol bike is Thermo mechanical violence. We all lost one hell of a wrench, a builder, and a racer when he died. Two other bikes he had that really stood out for me were a beautiful Honda CBX, and an original 1 of 500 Triumph Silver Jubilee with "8" original miles on the bike Jon also had a Ferrari that he ported the heads on and added 32 over sized titanium valves too. Roger

yeah; but, the guy behind you probably had to pay double.

Well, your avatar name is "twistedcrankcammer" ya know. You should have a Vmax. I added ported heads, aftermarket flat slide 39mm carbs via V-Gas intake, a set of pipes, a braced and chromed 3 inch over swing arm with 3 inch over chrome moly drive shaft, a set of billet rims, 200 rear tire vs: 150 stock, nitrous and an air shifter, plus all aftermarket retardable ignition, with hotter coils, bigger charging system and 8.5mm MSD wires for starters No chain kit?

The last time I was on one, Polaris and Ski-doo were the big names (early 70's). We were generally COLD.

Sorry about all the snowmobile talk…I tend to get carried away. It's just so much fun, I guarantee you would love it. The modern suits will keep you warm. That's awesome about your Dad, he sounds like quite a guy. Don't underestimate some of those older guys on the track, they'll surprise you…..they did me

I have nothing. Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk

My late uncle used to water race an old Rupp when I was just a kid My cousin owned a V-Max sled and it was an eye opener. He had an aftermarket Clutch, pipe, plastic ski bottoms, and a lot of cleats in the tread. That is the fastest sled I have manned personally. I think he rides some wankal engine Ski doo these days. I also have a buddy that is sponsored by a local dealer. He rides kitty kats and used to have one of the built 1,000 cc Artic Cats on nitrous. I think his present sled is a 700cc turbo on Methanol injection? He put 14 coats of paint on my bike tins for me My best friend farms 4,500 acres and is worth well into 8 figures. There are about 7 of them, all millionaires, and they just fly out and rent big sleds with really long tracks. I have been invited several times but just haven't justified the coin yet. I don't like renting a damn thing, I would rather buy and have something to show for my money, and my pockets are no way as deep as theirs. Roger I remember a Rupp Nitro. Clutch work is probably the best route of performance gains on a sled, there's an art to getting those things dialed in. I remember hearing a piped and jetted Vmax sled once, it sounded like an late 80s Indycar! Don't remember the Rupp model, but it had a big carb with large aluminum velocity stack that came out into the middle of your crotch! there was actually a cut out made into the seat to accommodate it. Roger Haha….I don't remember what it looked like, I just remembered the name….NITRO, has a cool retro name to it.

Why am I not surprised. You said it yourself Carl, the man has a lot of toys Did I ever direct you to his brother Damon's Facebook page? He has two Pro BW bugs and not only holds the NA record, but beat all of the Turbo guys at a big shoot out with his all motor car He also has an old Trail ways Bus that he converted and has taken a lot of big acts around the country for free just to hang out with them Rog

Hey Gary, you are in snowmobile country, it's cool that you ride. You're right, I am very much into them. It's probably not just the breathtaking performance, it's the feeling of being out in the wilderness. It helps when you know the territory, I go with my older brothers who starting riding up north in the early 80s. They always know their way around the trails, it's easy to get lost, and can be dangerous. I will guess the first independent front end was on a Polaris, maybe an Indy 500? I think they developed the trailing arm suspension. My second guess would be a Skidoo.

Why am I not surprised.

KC Missouri or Kansas? My buddy Kevin Harmon's son Kyle had a modified 700 HP CTS, but traded it in on a twin turbo mustang Roger

Got mumps?

Rog, if I didn't already have two titanium hips, I "might" consider it, but thanks.

We got rather bold and would ride them standing up, with a long rope on the handles to steer.....Considering some of the steep hills we would venture out on, I'm pretty lucky I didn't break a bone....

I remember when that bike came out in 1985 and I was 22 years old. I wanted one bad in 1985 but I'm over it now LOL. I ride a HD Tour Glide these days. Not quite the takeoff. If Jon were still alive, and you had the coin, he would fix that problem for you. I saw him do a bagger for a customer that would pull the front wheel in a second gear roll on, straight engine and not yanking back on the bars either. It ran 10s in the quarter. Roger

Roger, I bet your bike on the juice is downright scary. Have you dynoed it? 200HP?

Sometimes I'm still tempted a little when I see an older 80s Vmax in the sub $2K range. Another one I wanted was that KZ1000. Never got one though. I did own 600, 1200, 1300, 1600cc bikes. I'm on my 10th scooter right now. Probably should be my last too.

Well, your avatar name is "twistedcrankcammer" ya know. You should have a Vmax. I added ported heads, aftermarket flat slide 39mm carbs via V-Gas intake, a set of pipes, a braced and chromed 3 inch over swing arm with 3 inch over chrome moly drive shaft, a set of billet rims, 200 rear tire vs: 150 stock, nitrous and an air shifter, plus all aftermarket retardable ignition, with hotter coils, bigger charging system and 8.5mm MSD wires for starters No chain kit? Next to no performance gain for that kind of coin. If I dumped any more money in it would be to build a big bore and or turbo engine Roger

Well, your avatar name is "twistedcrankcammer" ya know. You should have a Vmax. I added ported heads, aftermarket flat slide 39mm carbs via V-Gas intake, a set of pipes, a braced and chromed 3 inch over swing arm with 3 inch over chrome moly drive shaft, a set of billet rims, 200 rear tire vs: 150 stock, nitrous and an air shifter, plus all aftermarket retardable ignition, with hotter coils, bigger charging system and 8.5mm MSD wires for starters

Well, your avatar name is "twistedcrankcammer" ya know. You should have a Vmax.

At that time the Vmax was about the quickest red light to red light production bike made. There is a good reason some of those bikes ended up with wheelie bars.

Let's let that one marinade a bit shall we?

I am thinking about P-17B's or the P-37F's along with the P-27C center paired with my existing sub, a klipsch RT-10d. But I sit only 12ft away from them, and of course no way to try before I buy. My old KLF-20s/KLF-C7 work well in this room/setting, so I'm guessing the Palladiums would, also, but I'm not sure.

My dedicated stereo room is the garage. Roughly 24'W x 24'L x 10'H. The La Scalas are about 4' into the room and 4' from the side walls. Lots of clutter along the walls and overhead to stop the music from reflecting to the listening area. Do 2 10' long plastic kayaks hanging overhead count as a bass trap? Mark

Ahh - another with "twin titaniums". That was the secret weapon I was keeping from TwistedCrank describing riding m bike to Hope! (Don't tell him the real secret is 2-wheel, 6 cylinder BMW power).

YOU DON"T KNOW STEEP! Come snow skiing with me! Rog

Bernie or Colonel?

yeah; but, the guy behind you probably had to pay double. That's right. He got Berned. K.

Please excuse the mess...there's a battle here. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Mark (I know you are reading this): I WILL apologize, but only because I had the exact wording wrong. So for that, I'm truly, truly sorry. Here is your exact wording, which I found thanks to a quoted post I had made in our Moderator's forum on that day... Go ahead and quote this in your blog post about me, and consider this matter closed. I'm not sure why you want to drag this out any further.

I remember when that bike came out in 1985 and I was 22 years old. I wanted one bad in 1985 but I'm over it now LOL. I ride a HD Tour Glide these days. Not quite the takeoff. I'm kind of an idiot, I dumped an additional $27,000 in modifications to a bike I couldn't possibly sell for $10,000, but I like it.....for short trips only Roger

"Raigeki" is a Yugioh card. Yugioh is a Japenese card trading game. The card reads: "Destroy all monsters your opponent controls." The thread had "turned personal" long before page 12. I wanted it locked. How did I do? People should be applauding the fact that Mark was able to have final say on what happened with HIS intellectual property. For this he's villianized? Mark is a prolific writer, no pithy posts from Mark. You ask a question and you're getting the thorough and complete two page answer. I once suggested to Mark that he save his posts and write a book covering a range of topics. Mark enjoys teaching. His preferred method is challenging established and often incorrect paradigms. Though he could sometimes make it personal, the goal was to get the person to dig a little deeper into their brain. He once called me "a Bronze Age goat herder". Oh yes, I was upset, but that thread resulted in me completely reaccessing aspects of my belief system - and I ended up the better for it. I still don't know if Mark was banned or asked to have his account closed and posts deleted. No one is perfect. I guess no one here has violated anything in the terms of service? No trolling, baiting, veiled or blatant personal attacks? When it comes to violations, I would consider Mark to be very low on the list of offenders. I think the one obvious trolling incident was an act of curiosity for the purpose of gauging the health of the forum. "How will the remaining brain trust respond?" Man, I totally get it. My last two emails were from people asking me to help them get to earbleed listening levels without causing earbleed. Mark was being dragged through the mud for several pages, and my few posts were met with instant antagonism. The thread was locked as soon as I decided I'd had enough. I guess I'm not part of the clique anymore.

What surprises me is that these little, convenient "cups" for your Keurigs are along the order of $0.75 a pop! Coffee has gone to an all-new level.