Youthman's First Heritage Speakers...the LaScalas

[Scrappydue]

Hey even you said your setup was temporary till you move into a bigger home.

Yes, I can increase volume as I'm adjusting test tone levels

i was just giving you a hard time.

That is one thing I hated about Harmon when I had one. The setup is so weird. So try this. Turn your trims WAY down. And turn the volume up to -20. Then set trims to 85db. That would give you your 105 reference at 0 on the volume.

[Youthman]

Yes I can adjust individual levels AND master volume level while in the trim menu.

I do not believe I have ever listened to my setup at 0. Probably the highest I've ever listened would be -10 and it was very loud (pre-LaScala purchase)

[Youthman]

And thinking back to the Yamaha that I used to own I always listen in the negative as well never getting to 0dB.

I remember correctly the Emotiva UMC-1 did not have DB it had a number system for volume (like 0-40). Can't really remember

[Scrappydue]

Yeah emo does their own thing. And a perfect reason why I would never buy their processor. Volume should be standard across the board. Basically your harmon can be set like I said and volume would be the same at -10 for you as it would for me. But the emo thing totally throws thing out of wack.

[garyrc]

Yes I can adjust individual levels AND master volume level while in the trim menu.

I do not believe I have ever listened to my setup at 0. Probably the highest I've ever listened would be -10 and it was very loud (pre-LaScala purchase)

It would be a few dB louder with the La Scalas, I think.

I still think that 0 may not = reference level on your setup, either pre or post La Scalas. It definitely would not unless you got the La Scalas pulled down below -12 dB on the trims .... I couldn't read any dB figures on the scales in your photo, except for the sub.

As you know, for Audyssey to level set my Khorns and Belle, I had to temporarily use 12 dB attenuators. After Audyssey set them, the attenuators came off, and my reference level was now -12 dB (which would = 0 for nearly anybody else, except for a few in this fourm, since Khorns, La Scalas, and Belles are somewhere between 13 to 15 dB more efficient than the typical speaker, and cause Audyssey to bottom out at -12).

Reference level produces some loud music and effects, but the dialog is at a plausible level. The filmmakers and engineers mixing at Reference level aren't so crazy as to allow the dialog to sound like bellowing (at least most of them aren't) .

Edited May 21, 2014 by Garyrc

[NBPK402]

Youthman

Just out of curiosity... When you turn the volume down, when do you not hear sound anymore (with a source playing)? If I recall correctly mine is like a db or 2 above the min volume.

[garyrc]

Youthman

Just out of curiosity... When you turn the volume down, when do you not hear sound anymore (with a source playing)? If I recall correctly mine is like a db or 2 above the min volume.

Ellisr63,

You didn't ask me, but you pose an interesting question. Here are my results, with the system set up by Audyssey for Reference level, sitting in the main listening position, about 12-13 feet away from the center speaker, in a 4231 cu.ft. room, with Star Trek: Into Darkness, a movie with very loud special effects (crammed up against the top), but, IMO, normal dialog levels.

Obviously, the numerical level at which you do not hear sound anymore will depend on how loud a part of the movie you use. So, here are the steps I went through:

First, to see how closely my ears and Audyssey agreed on the appropriate level, without looking at the read out, I set the dialog for what sounded like normal theatrical level, and it turned out that it was just 1 dB below Reference. Then, I turned the volume down until I could just barely hear normal dialog. That level was -56 dB.

Moving to a part of the film with sound effects, I turned down the volume until I could just barely hear the sound effects. That level turned out to be -80.5 dB, and I could still hear a very, very soft rumble. That is the point at which the volume control read out stops; if you try to turn it a bit lower, you get a series of dashes across the screen, and the sound is nulled.

In practice, Star Trek: Into Darkness is one of the few movies we turn down significantly below reference, because the effects produce so much prolonged loudness that we worry about our speakers and ears. Naturally, that puts the dialog a bit on the quiet side, but it is still quite clear. I can only think that the people who mixed this movie knew what commercial THX theaters could take, and knew that people who don't like hyper-dramatic dynamic range would move to the back of the theater, or habitually sit there.

Edited May 21, 2014 by Garyrc

[NBPK402]

Mine only goes to -80 (which is --). AIR I could hear the La Scalas (from the MLP 12' away) until it was -78 or -79. This was while watching a normal tv show or while listening to music.

[psg]

On my HK, 0 dB means max gain, or clipped output with clipped inputs.

Reference for me is 13 dB down from that (on a 50WPC receiver).

I likely have much more speaker headroom than I do subwoofer headroom. That's often the limiting factor.

That said, I don't watch movies at reference. Action movies about 7 dB below, and chick movies even lower.

[Youthman]

I still think that 0 may not = reference level on your setup

Me either because Reference would = Deafness.

Just out of curiosity... When you turn the volume down, when do you not hear sound anymore (with a source playing)? If I recall correctly mine is like a db or 2 above the min volume.

My receiver goes down to -90dB. At -90dB, there is no sound other than a slight hiss. At 89dB, if I put my ear up to the horn, I can vaguely hear sound.

On my HK, 0 dB means max gain, or clipped output with clipped inputs.

I never thought to check to see how high mine goes. It goes to +3 and stops. Guess that explains why 0dB on the HK is not Reference. Makes sense now.

I think I typically listen around -30dB to -20dB which is plenty loud.

[garyrc]

I still think that 0 may not = reference level on your setup

Me either because Reference would = Deafness.

Just out of curiosity... When you turn the volume down, when do you not hear sound anymore (with a source playing)? If I recall correctly mine is like a db or 2 above the min volume.

My receiver goes down to -90dB. At -90dB, there is no sound other than a slight hiss. At 89dB, if I put my ear up to the horn, I can vaguely hear sound.

On my HK, 0 dB means max gain, or clipped output with clipped inputs.

I never thought to check to see how high mine goes. It goes to +3 and stops. Guess that explains why 0dB on the HK is not Reference. Makes sense now.

I think I typically listen around -30dB to -20dB which is plenty loud.

This all makes sense to me.

[TasDom]

So when does the demo construction start?

[Youthman]

Funny you should ask....I was on the phone with Wake this evening discussing the very same thing. Wake is already engineering an Ebony Stain using Steel Wool and Vinegar. It will take a week for the chemical reaction to finalize and be ready to use. When Wake built his cabinet, he made his own custom stain to obtain the exact shade finish he was looking for.

There are still some design decisions to be made before construction can commence. I'll likely start a separate build thread here in the forums for it.

[dtel]

Funny you should ask

Never hear of that, but if Wake said it works Think about it or better yet look at his room, I don't need to say any more.

[NBPK402]

I have heard of using a steel wool, and lemon juice mix for aging wood too.

[Youthman]

I figure if I can trust Wake with my life, I can trust him with my HT.

[CECAA850]

Interesting, I've never seen that before.

[Youthman]

Knowing Shaun, there probably will be a lot of things we haven't seen before in this build. I think he just makes it up as he goes.

[WakeJunkie]

Knowing Shaun, there probably will be a lot of things we haven't seen before in this build. I think he just makes it up as he goes.

In the words of George Lopez - "I got this"

[dtel]

Knowing Shaun, there probably will be a lot of things we haven't seen before in this build. I think he just makes it up as he goes.

There's another way ?