Zen Traveler Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) ...Today, because of our success, we have a lot of free time. Our food is ordered and brought to us on a plate already cooked. Most people enjoy a good steak. Then on the drive home they hear about the mistreatment of the animals in the slaughter houses and think "that is so bad!" Not even realizing the hypocrisy of the events that evening. Having sorrow for a lion is a luxury but it is not facing reality. It most certainly is not 'evolving.' That is simply laughable. Today, there are about 15,000 lions on the face of the planet and about 7 billion people. You want to know why I think we haven't evolved and that we are simply responding from a position of luxury? Easy. Reverse those numbers. Now there are 7 billion lions and 15,000 people. You got time to feel sorrow? Fwiw, you are saying two different things in the above paragraphs...I agree with the first but equating 'evolving' with the 'luxury' is off the mark morally speaking--I value the life of animals and appreciate that they are also a food source. Edited July 30, 2015 by Zen Traveler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 hunting and murder for intentional joy arises in people who have no spirit. often called consciousness. they are dead inside EXCEPT for the ego, which tells them they alone are important. they have no established connection with the feelings of other living things. they do not see any connection at all. ego says, only I exist, only I matter, no other thing is more important than I. others develope spirit inside. they develope a connection to lving things....comraderie? a wholeness that sees other lifes as different but not unimportant. look at a whale and see the intelligence, the caring, the feelings they show for their offsprings. Lions dogs cats have feelings and consciousness. we even love pets, which are just dogs and cats. how about we go dog hunting with bow and arrow and kill all dogs in the neighborhood? hey, they are less than lions, less than humans, might as well have fun shooting them!! get excitement killing all the dogs in the area! mount they heads on the wall too!! sick? how is that sicker than murdering elks or lions for fun? I hope the big God has special punishment for such unfeeling people. a room alone for eternity with no other living things? That's exactly how I feel, except for the last sentence. I still can't wish a person to hell. I just can't. I can wish that they die, find true repentance and be saved. Fancy that, and I'm not a Christian. That's about as far as my logic takes me. Beyond that, I believe in the concept of Karma and how, if there is a way to earn an after-life or some meaningful reward, it must be through goodness and selflessness. However, I am willing to accept that the reward might be in the quality of your mere, mortal life. There is no doubt in my mind that even our own, mortal lives are better with some kind of loving and selfless spirituality. If I am wrong, then, I am wrong. I can't see any other possible condition that could be so benign, and so that's life as I want, and choose, to see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted July 30, 2015 Author Moderators Share Posted July 30, 2015 hunting and murder for intentional joy arises in people who have no spirit. often called consciousness. they are dead inside EXCEPT for the ego, which tells them they alone are important. they have no established connection with the feelings of other living things. they do not see any connection at all. ego says, only I exist, only I matter, no other thing is more important than I. others develope spirit inside. they develope a connection to lving things....comraderie? a wholeness that sees other lifes as different but not unimportant. look at a whale and see the intelligence, the caring, the feelings they show for their offsprings. Lions dogs cats have feelings and consciousness. we even love pets, which are just dogs and cats. how about we go dog hunting with bow and arrow and kill all dogs in the neighborhood? hey, they are less than lions, less than humans, might as well have fun shooting them!! get excitement killing all the dogs in the area! mount they heads on the wall too!! sick? how is that sicker than murdering elks or lions for fun? I hope the big God has special punishment for such unfeeling people. a room alone for eternity with no other living things? Like Earnest Hemmingway? Chuck Yeager? Bud Grant. They get their own room? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willland Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 You may 'get' what he is saying but it is what 'the media' propagandist want you to identify with...There are no shortages of Human beings and killing these majestic lions for sport is not a very 'manly' thing to do, but some will identify with it. Why is it always propaganda to you? As I said, I think what this dentist did is horrible, period. I also think that the outcry for that situation is way out of balance to the "outcry" for other more immediate and horrible acts that are currently on the radar. Bill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Today, because of our success, we have a lot of free time. Our food is ordered and brought to us on a plate already cooked. Most people enjoy a good steak. Then on the drive home they hear about the mistreatment of the animals in the slaughter houses and think "that is so bad!" Not even realizing the hypocrisy of the events that evening. Having sorrow for a lion is a luxury but it is not facing reality. It most certainly is not 'evolving.' That is simply laughable. Today, there are about 15,000 lions on the face of the planet and about 7 billion people. You want to know why I think we haven't evolved and that we are simply responding from a position of luxury? Easy. Reverse those numbers. Now there are 7 billion lions and 15,000 people. You got time to feel sorrow? Hold on just a second. You think you are making the hunter's case, but re-read what you said. You are making a vegetarian's case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Today, because of our success, we have a lot of free time. Our food is ordered and brought to us on a plate already cooked. Most people enjoy a good steak. Then on the drive home they hear about the mistreatment of the animals in the slaughter houses and think "that is so bad!" Not even realizing the hypocrisy of the events that evening. Having sorrow for a lion is a luxury but it is not facing reality. It most certainly is not 'evolving.' That is simply laughable. Today, there are about 15,000 lions on the face of the planet and about 7 billion people. You want to know why I think we haven't evolved and that we are simply responding from a position of luxury? Easy. Reverse those numbers. Now there are 7 billion lions and 15,000 people. You got time to feel sorrow? Hold on just a second. You think you are making the hunter's case, but re-read what you said. You are making a vegetarian's case. Well, I guess you could be making a nihilist's case: ni·hil·ism ˈnīəˌlizəm,ˈnēəˌlizəm/ noun the rejection of all religious and moral principles, often in the belief that life is meaningless. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbert Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) yeh. just don't see the sport in killing a lion. Or any other animal "for sport" as far as that goes. It's a psychological defect, for sure. Truly, what that dentist did is for sport purposes only, i.e. for ego and bragging rights. I don't know that I would call it a psychological defect, but I think it's wrong. I assure you that both the dentist and his PH knew exactly what they were doing. They knew their actions were riding the knife's edge between legal and illegal..... And it all boils down to where the carcass falls. The method they chose to attract that lion have been the standard of practice for those with big money for decades. It's happening right now, in more places in more countries than you can count with all your fingers and toes...... and it keeps increasing everyday. There is no shortage of guides that show photo's of live trophy class animals, in attempts to $eek out the highest bidder. It's big money, and it starts at the so called "hunting" expositions; where these sports jock wannabee hunters hangout and blend in with real hunters. They go from booth, to booth, to booth looking for outfitters (animal vendors) promising the trophy jock hunter (who doesn't know how to hunt, or judge game) the wall hanger of a lifetime. Most are canned hunts, but some are real. Anyway, by definition of the word "Sport", I'll certainly agree with you Jeff, but for very different reasons. Monkeying up and down the countryside stalking or enjoying looking at wild game, or wing shooting or fishing are truly not sport. It wasn't until I read your post that it dawned on me..... thank you for making it clear. Edited July 30, 2015 by Gilbert 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 I've only read a few posts here but I think I get the theme. What I don't understand is who gets to decide what thing has feelings, or a soul. What about a head of lettuce or a potato or a carrot or a leaf or a rock? Maybe those living things have feelings and humans haven't evolved to a position of understanding or awareness. And what about time? Is time infinite or will time ever become extinct? And what about all the time that people waste here? Are we gluttonous because of the time that we consume here? Just wondering. Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 The method they chose to attract that lion have been the standard of practice for those with big money for decades. It's happening right now, in more places in more countries than you can count with all your fingers and toes...... and it keeps increasing everyday. There is no shortage of guides that show photo's of live trophy class animals, in attempts to $eek out the highest bidder. It's big money, and it starts at the so called "hunting" expositions; where these sports jock wannabee's hangout and blend in with real hunters. They go from booth, to booth, to booth looking for outfitters (animal vendors) promising the trophy jock hunter (who doesn't know how to hunt, or judge game) the wall hanger of a lifetime. Most are canned hunts, but some are real. I never really thought of it that way, but you're right. It's no different than killing elephants en masse for their ivory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 What I don't understand is who gets to decide what thing has feelings, or a soul. What about a head of lettuce or a potato or a carrot or a leaf or a rock? Maybe those living things have feelings and humans haven't evolved to a position of understanding or awareness. Keith The obvious answer is "me." It is MY world. It can be none other. You have yours, and I have mine. There is no way I can believe other than what I believe. I can empathize with others to various degrees... anywhere from fiercely disagree to whole-heartedly agree. But in the end, it's my opinion that matters most because it is how I view my world. And what about time? Is time infinite or will time ever become extinct? And what about all the time that people waste here? Are we gluttonous because of the time that we consume here? Keith We don't know, and yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Steven1963 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Today, because of our success, we have a lot of free time. Our food is ordered and brought to us on a plate already cooked. Most people enjoy a good steak. Then on the drive home they hear about the mistreatment of the animals in the slaughter houses and think "that is so bad!" Not even realizing the hypocrisy of the events that evening. Having sorrow for a lion is a luxury but it is not facing reality. It most certainly is not 'evolving.' That is simply laughable. Today, there are about 15,000 lions on the face of the planet and about 7 billion people. You want to know why I think we haven't evolved and that we are simply responding from a position of luxury? Easy. Reverse those numbers. Now there are 7 billion lions and 15,000 people. You got time to feel sorrow? Today, because of our success, we have a lot of free time. Our food is ordered and brought to us on a plate already cooked. Most people enjoy a good steak. Then on the drive home they hear about the mistreatment of the animals in the slaughter houses and think "that is so bad!" Not even realizing the hypocrisy of the events that evening. Having sorrow for a lion is a luxury but it is not facing reality. It most certainly is not 'evolving.' That is simply laughable. Today, there are about 15,000 lions on the face of the planet and about 7 billion people. You want to know why I think we haven't evolved and that we are simply responding from a position of luxury? Easy. Reverse those numbers. Now there are 7 billion lions and 15,000 people. You got time to feel sorrow? Hold on just a second. You think you are making the hunter's case, but re-read what you said. You are making a vegetarian's case. I can accept that my thoughts put to paper aren't always the easiest to decipher. But it's not my intention to make the case for vegetarianism. My point, to be direct, is that we've become feminized (for lack of a better term)because of our success as a species. But even that feminization is not reality and it's not evolution. It's a façade that we have built for ourselves as a side-benefit from our success. Just as their are no atheists in fox holes, there is no time for compassion when you are faced with survival. You WILL kill to eat. Or you WILL die. We are all hunters. Survival of the fittest; natural selection. You want to maintain your compassionate façade when faced with odds like 7 billion v 15,000 odds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Just as their are no atheists in fox holes, there is no time for compassion when you are faced with survival. You WILL kill to eat. Or you WILL die. We are all hunters. Survival of the fittest; natural selection. You want to maintain your compassionate façade when faced with odds like 7 billion v 15,000 odds? Yes, I understand Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. We are not presently in survival mode. There is no reason to act like we are. We define human morality as acting "better" than survival mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimbo Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) Here ya go boys! New targets! Get em before they can run fast... https://youtu.be/B7myDP8399g Oh, I forgot, this is not meant to provide shock value or for entertainment purposes..... Edited July 30, 2015 by jimjimbo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Naseum Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 hunting and murder for intentional joy arises in people who have no spirit. often called consciousness. they are dead inside EXCEPT for the ego, which tells them they alone are important. they have no established connection with the feelings of other living things. they do not see any connection at all. ego says, only I exist, only I matter, no other thing is more important than I. others develope spirit inside. they develope a connection to lving things....comraderie? a wholeness that sees other lifes as different but not unimportant. look at a whale and see the intelligence, the caring, the feelings they show for their offsprings. Lions dogs cats have feelings and consciousness. we even love pets, which are just dogs and cats. how about we go dog hunting with bow and arrow and kill all dogs in the neighborhood? hey, they are less than lions, less than humans, might as well have fun shooting them!! get excitement killing all the dogs in the area! mount they heads on the wall too!! sick? how is that sicker than murdering elks or lions for fun? I hope the big God has special punishment for such unfeeling people. a room alone for eternity with no other living things? Like Earnest Hemmingway? Chuck Yeager? Bud Grant. They get their own room? i don't know much about the motivations of those people when they killed. but sure, if it was for a thrill of killing other living things, why not eternity alone? those names mean nothing by themselves. does writing books give on the right to murder? flying planes? i find it ridicilous to exhonerate a killer because of his other job. it tells me people are not equal, some are so special they cana't be judged. notice, i did not recommend hell. only a room by themselves to contemplate that they might appreciate other lving things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Here ya go boys! New targets! Get em before they can run fast... https://youtu.be/B7myDP8399g Oh, I forgot, this is not meant to provide shock value or for entertainment purposes..... Gorgeous! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Steven1963 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) Just as their are no atheists in fox holes, there is no time for compassion when you are faced with survival. You WILL kill to eat. Or you WILL die. We are all hunters. Survival of the fittest; natural selection. You want to maintain your compassionate façade when faced with odds like 7 billion v 15,000 odds? Yes, I understand Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. We are not presently in survival mode. There is no reason to act like we are. We define human morality as acting "better" than survival mode. I never said we are in survival mode. I simply pointed out that we aren't living in reality. Reality is, this lion does not matter. Not the day he was killed, not today. It certainly didn't warrant the outcry that it received and it certainly isn't more important than any human that was killed that same day. And right on schedule, here is an article that supports my position: http://news.yahoo.com/lion-zimbabweans-ask-amid-global-cecil-circus-140822692.html Hell, even the Zimbabweans don't know what all the excitement is about. Because....they've actually got to worry about things that matter. In other news. The 'compassionate' crowd is showing their usual craziness to such overblown events. Mia Farrow has apparently made public the Dentists home address. Wonderful people out there pretending to be something they are not. Edited July 30, 2015 by Steven1963 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimbo Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 And right on schedule, here is an article that supports my position: Ah yes, it's on the internet, posted by Yahoo, and sourced from Zimbabwe.....must be true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max2 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 If animals could speak a language, things would be very different. We could assert different racial and socio tags such as those "tyrant" oriented Asian monkeys compared to those "thug" South American monkeys. And all those dang illegal immigrant African giant snails catching free rides on boats over here and eating our water veggies....well they gotta go ! And lets not forget about the Indo-Pacific Lion fish being set loose by hobbyist's and eating all those cute little Bubble Guppies ! We cant win in this day and age or much less solve any miniscule problems here in the USA. We have hungry kids in classrooms, the very men that protect us get no health care, while we just give it away to the permanent visitors. We crucify a productive individual who has a mistake, yet we coddle and slap the hand of the dirtiest, multi-felon, permanent visitor that should be shackled in a hot barn somewhere in South Alabama. It will take a radical to get this country back in line and radicals scare me, but sometimes the right decisions are the scariest and hurt the worst. BTW, the guy that killed Cecil has no morals. He wasn't hungry. He was just after a hide and a head and he did it in the most un sporting way that could be done. Now his life has changed and unfortunately he created a lot of havoc for his family and relatives. A correct brain would not let this go away forever with regret, but given the size of his Den wall and the amount of animal heads that reside there point that his lust and greed for killing shows that he has no conscience. People don't change, people cant change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Steven1963 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) And right on schedule, here is an article that supports my position: Ah yes, it's on the internet, posted by Yahoo, and sourced from Zimbabwe.....must be true. Denial isn't something to boast about. I realize you will never admit that there has been an over-reaction about this lion. But certainly you would agree that my position is based in scientific theory? Edited July 30, 2015 by Steven1963 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarheel Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Walter Palmer is pond scum and I would enjoy slapping his fat cheeks till they bled......but that's just me 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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