When Did We Become So Wimpy On The Forum?

[Chris A]

On 9/9/2016 at 3:12 PM, Chad said:

In the interest of transparency:

 

 

 

Here is the plot that I was looking for--the number of new technical/modifications threads started vs. time:

 

This tells the story that I've been watching over time but didn't have the actual numbers.  These numbers were compiled by myself--counting the number of new threads by month.

 

The story here isn't very encouraging from the standpoint of the forum helping others with their loudspeaker setups and modifications.  In fact, it's fairly dismal. 

 

ref:

On 9/9/2016 at 3:30 PM, Chris A said:

 

That's a pretty interesting story.  Thanks for the data.  The "Great Recession" looks like it took its toll on new members, but it looks like it took a while (2012). 

 

Can you pull the same data, but just for the Technical/Modifications forum?

 

 

Chris

[oldtimer]

8 hours ago, Marvel said:

I still love this place! If I get a job I won't be on as much, though...

I can see the bind you're in.

[Chris A]

1 hour ago, Chris A said:

This tells the story that I've been watching over time but didn't have the actual numbers.

That dip in 2007 coincided with the creation of the "Just Jubes" forum in April 2007, so some technical discussions that would otherwise be in the tech/mod forum were diverted to that new forum--until about 2010 when the number of new discussions there tailed off.  That forum (Just Jubes) was created due to the intense arguing that was occurring here on the open forums, generally partitioned into the "haves" and "have nots". Many of the Jubilee owners and other interested members in Jubs went behind closed doors then in order to provide for much more productive and whole lot less combative discussions. Many informative technical threads were created there--still useful today--for the benefit of those that wanted "better sound", in the form of Jubilees.

 

IIRC, the "BS" forum also got started about that time frame, or slightly before--apparently first for the people that like to argue constantly about loudspeakers, then just argue about religion, politics, and anything other than audio, etc...but behind closed doors to hide it from public view.  That forum also was eventually closed but reopened later as the "No BS forum" for those having 5K posts on the forum...the logic of which still escapes me (...why not just let the people that like to argue have access there upon request like it was before?) 

 

Chris

[dtel's wife]

1 hour ago, Chris A said:

That dip in 2007 coincided with the creation of the "Just Jubes" forum in April 2007, so some technical discussions that would otherwise be in the tech/mod forum were diverted to that new forum--until about 2010 when the number of new discussions there tailed off.  That forum (Just Jubes) was created due to the intense arguing that was occurring here on the open forums, generally partitioned into the "haves" and "have nots". Many of the Jubilee owners and other interested members in Jubs went behind closed doors then in order to provide for much more productive and whole lot less combative discussions. Many informative technical threads were created there--still useful today--for the benefit of those that wanted "better sound", in the form of Jubilees.

 

IIRC, the "BS" forum also got started about that time frame, or slightly before--apparently first for the people that like to argue constantly about loudspeakers, then just argue about religion, politics, and anything other than audio, etc...but behind closed doors to hide it from public view.  That forum also was eventually closed but reopened later as the "No BS forum" for those having 5K posts on the forum...the logic of which still escapes me (...why not just let the people that like to argue have access there upon request like it was before?) 

 

Chris

The BS forum became a section where politics, race and religion were discussed, just as the NBS forum is today. To the best of knowledge audio has not been discussed in either of those sections since I joined the Klipsch forum. 

 

I have had access to both sections since shortly after joining the Klipsch Forum. 

[mike stehr]

Like Dean mentioned the BS forum was originally called "Gloves Off" and was brought up to moved heated debates about audio off the main forums. Over time, folks who would not refrain from posting political/religious topics on the main forums were "Chosen" for the BS forum.

I was "Chosen"...but not due to posting political/religious topics.

[CECAA850]

14 hours ago, jimjimbo said:

Yes Carl, Those "W's" are for WINS....most in college football history, if you must know....

That's pretry impressive if true.  I didn't realize they let them play that many junior colleges.

[Jeff Matthews]

I am one of the early ones in BS k/n/a NBS, but not the earliest.  We pretty much never discuss audio there.  It's pretty much politics, religion and pseudo-science.  There are no "hot" audio topics there.

[Zen Traveler]

58 minutes ago, mike stehr said:

I was "Chosen"...but not due to posting political/religious topics

I was chosen as well, but it wasn't because I posted these topics but instead responded to them.  

 

Btw, that was over 10 years ago and I also haven't seen an audio related topic since I've been there.

 

 

[mike stehr]

6 minutes ago, Zen Traveler said:

I was chosen as well, but it wasn't because I posted these topics but instead responded to them.  

 

Btw, that was over 10 years ago and I also haven't seen an audio related topic since I've been there.

 

 

LOL

 

There wasn't very many audio related topics from what I recall.

[Thaddeus Smith]

This isn't a Klipsch forum problem. This is a "music forums attract complacent, overly sensitive, sarcastic assholes with poor social skills" problem. Notice how this thread on the Emotiva forum quickly spins out of control into an off topic tirade regarding warranty transfers..

 

http://emotivalounge.proboards.com/thread/47970/emporium

 

You'll find this stuff on AVSF, AKarma, so on and so forth.

[Zen Traveler]

4 hours ago, Chris A said:

The story here isn't very encouraging from the standpoint of the forum helping others with their loudspeaker setups and modifications.  In fact, it's fairly dismal. 

 

I'm really not sure why this thread was created but you bring up something I've thought about for years being here and AVS. Also to clarify my point from an earlier post: 

 

1) It seems more of us hang around the Klipsch Forum who have older products instead of what is being sold today.

2) When I first joined, Home Theater was in vogue and so were the sound systems that went with it.

3) At the time not many audio sites were up and the Klipsch Forum was full of information you couldn't find on the internet (just like AVS when it was a science forum).

4) Most posts prior to about 5 to 8 years ago also seemed to promote current products. Way before that  I learned what a "Deang" crossover was because it seemed like an internet phenomenon. Still a lot of Reference speakers sold and they were the topic of conversation and questions.

5) Cut to today where most of the conversation is either social or upgrade/updating Heritage products.

 

Iow, if someone is considering buying Klipsch speakers no longer is the forum their first thought--If so, I assure you there isn't as much discussion about the newer lines as days gone by and I agree if the venders leave it will become strictly a social site which doesn't generate/promote revenue for the parent company, imo. {Note: That's not to say that they aren't trying--I am saying it appears the dynamics have changed and if those other speaker companies thought having a forum was a good idea they would have one by now.}

 

Btw, I really appreciate Klipsch supporting this site and feel it is good for their reputation that it's been up and running so long with a storied History.  

[Deang]

The numbers are worse than you think. During the first software change, many thousands of posts weren't recovered.

 

The recession had very little to do with the decline in participation there. That period coincides exactly with Al getting fed up, Greg Roberts leaving to start Volti, Bob Crites and Dave Harris getting too busy to post, JCW and Mark1101 going into seclusion, and me getting sick (Jan of 2012). Most new topics were project threads - no one hardly ever went to Technical for set up issues - almost all of those went to 2-channel and the HT Section. 

 

Most of the arguing on 2-channel back then was not about loudspeakers or politics (which typically happened in The General Section), but about tube amplifier topologies (SET vs PP). Amy and Trey had it set up as opposed to banning us. Initially, there was only about a dozen of us. In fact, Jeff's signature still bears the mark from those days, and it didn't have a damn thing to do with politics or religion!

 

Without the banter, this place is just plain boring. I would leave for a month and come back and see the same topics on a page, no movement whatsoever. Look at the post count and views of the last three heated threads (this one, The AA thread, and Looking Beyond Passives). 

 

"Just Jubs" hasn't had a single post in half a year. Why is that?

[Chris A]

16 minutes ago, Zen Traveler said:

Iow, if someone is considering buying Klipsch speakers no longer is the forum their first thought--If so, I assure you there isn't as much discussion about the newer lines as days gone by and I agree if the venders leave it will become strictly a social site which doesn't generate/promote revenue for the parent company, imo. {Note: That's not to say that they aren't trying--I am saying it appears the dynamics have changed and if those other speaker companies thought having a forum was a good idea they would have one by now.}

 

Generally, I don't have Heritage, and the loudspeakers that I've got are still being sold (with the '79 surround Cornwalls presently the only exception but that will be replaced soon).  They come standard in "basic black".

 

The higher the performance of the loudspeakers, generally the more support is needed to get everything set up to realize that added performance.  Works the same way for just about any other consumer product--like autos, computers, mobile phones, etc.  Additionally, there is a fraction of those that buy in at the low end and then trade up. I believe the forum is central to this activity for Klipsch.

 

The real problem is that nothing really wears out in Klipsch Heritage unless abused by too much power or exposure to the elements (including pets and spilled drinks). That business model (i.e., nothing wearing out) creates the "Heritage problem" as I view the situation.  I once worked in a geophysical industry which had the same problem (Vibroseis units) that weren't wearing out like autos and computers.  That caused problems for manufacturers over time, and forced many closures/resurrections/new enterprises to be formed. 

 

Chris

[Deang]

18 minutes ago, Thaddeus Smith said:

This isn't a Klipsch forum problem. This is a "music forums attract complacent, overly sensitive, sarcastic assholes with poor social skills".

 

Quit taking my personality problems out of context. 

[Thaddeus Smith]

but that's my point. it's not just you.. it's the hobby in general. We hide behind the technical aspects of audio reproduction, the music, the gear, our unique golden ears - until all of those conversations run their course and we're left with this. The annual gatherings are a nice shot in the arm to let each other see additional facets of one another's lives and personalities, but that only goes so far when it's just a sub-group of people that make the journey.

 

 

[jwc]

20 minutes ago, Deang said:

The recession had very little to do with the decline in participation there. That period coincides exactly with Al getting fed up, Greg Roberts leaving to start Volti, Bob Crites and Dave Harris getting too busy to post, JCW and Mark1101 going into seclusion, and me getting sick (Jan of 2012).

 I never really thought about it....that all did happen about the same time.  Interesting.  I probably couldn't come up with one reason to explain why that happened though.  Could just be coincidence.  I did lose some interest there for awhile....But mine would be for multiple reasons.

[Chris A]

Perhaps it's just me, but I haven't run out of "things audio" to explore yet.  Perhaps it's just a limitation of the imagination for those that give up?

 

I keep posting here because I keep finding interesting stuff to improve the listening experience--including finding new music through the forum members. [EDIT: I find that the old digital discs are now the best ones in terms of potential fidelity, and they're dirt cheap to acquire for unmastering.]  I find the humor is oftentimes not my exact taste.  YMMV.  I like good audio, however, and it seems to be an endless journey to me--even if DIY.

 

Chris

[Deang]

Yeah, I agree with that, hey, I've said the same thing over twenty thousand times, and everyone is no doubt tired of hearing it. Bob and me were just talking about that a couple of weeks ago - how many times can you say what you want to say before its time to move on. I guess I like a good fight. Which reminds me, I don't know who that Chief guy is, but someone needs to get him back on the chain. 

[Deang]

I almost came to the last gathering, but I can't do 95-100 degree days anymore. I really wanted to come too, because I wanted to break a few of Jim's fingers. I have no idea what he had in mind for me. :-)

[Thaddeus Smith]

Suck it up, buttercup.Temps were still pretty moderate this past year, even having the event in May. A little warm in the middle of the day, but nothing is stopping you from going back to the motel.