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ODS123

Advice for Beginners - consider this test from an audio club

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11 minutes ago, jason str said:

 

Same reason a $20 driver won't sound its best until its broken in. They are new and not broken in.

 

Break in time varies from driver to driver.  Who better to know how long one of these drivers in the design takes to break in than the ones who have been testing them ?

 

Please be more clear.  I have no idea what you're saying here.

 

Again, I can't fathom Totem shipping a $15,000 speaker system that is performing sub-optimally simply just because they couldn't find a way to break-in a handful of drivers for a few days.

 

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1 minute ago, ODS123 said:

 

Please be more clear.  I have no idea what you're saying here.

 

Again, I can't fathom Totem shipping a $15,000 speaker system that is performing sub-optimally simply just because they couldn't find a way to break-in a handful of drivers for a few days.

 

 

How many speaker manufacturers do you think are going to spend the time and effort to break in speakers before shipping them out? It might seem like a small thing to you, but the big boys have a schedule to adhere to, and it doesn't include this. Now I have heard of small outfits that will do it. Sometimes it's a free service, others charge for it.

 

 

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1 hour ago, ODS123 said:

 

Yes, this is true.  ..But the surround material is chosen for it's imparting minimal drag on the cone.  And the motor magnet is chosen for it's ability to overpower whatever drag is caused by the surround.  This is what a speaker does...  

 

And why would a speaker company allow a $15,000 speaker leave it's factory TRULY believing it won't sound it's best for 200-250 hours (i.e., The Totem Wind)??  ..Why would they risk the speaker being set up in a dealer's demo room then comparing unfavorably to whatever ALL BECAUSE they didn't find a way to break their drivers in before mounting them in the cabinet??  If they REALLY believed in break-in and it helped avoid unfavorable demos, I do believe they'd find a way to do this before packing / shipping.

 

..A few minute of break-in is plausible.  ..But 250 hours?  It's incredible that they very first spec they list  is break-in hours.

 

It's almost like they're saying, please listen to these for a full 250 hours before calling your dealer to say 'I'd like to return these - I've been listening to them for a few hours and I'm not really feelin' it."

 

 

 

Why is a new pair of duck hunting waders so stiff?    What about new pair of cowboy boots?, well not expecting many here to know either, but I could be wrong.

 

Now Im going to come out and say this is tell tale for a boutique brand and nothing more than a crutch even though there is likely some math to it.  People that have speakers on this level will likely have a guru showing up and running response and what not trying to get the best layout of the space and putting the rubber to the road so to speak.  I can see how the surrounds and motors would loosen up a bit.   I could also see how they would spec different if they were sitting in humid Florida environment as opposed to a dry and colder Minnesota environment.   But once again, that would show pesky variables that change sound, even if just revealed on white pages.

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27 minutes ago, Shakeydeal said:

 

How many speaker manufacturers do you think are going to spend the time and effort to break in speakers before shipping them out? It might seem like a small thing to you, but the big boys have a schedule to adhere to, and it doesn't include this. Now I have heard of small outfits that will do it. Sometimes it's a free service, others charge for it.

 

 

 

Um... These are $15,000 speaker built to order - which takes 6-8 weeks.  ..They got the time.  They can run-in the drivers as they build the cabinets.  Alternatively, they could simply allow sub-performing speakers to show up at dealers, fail comparison tests, then watch demand for the speaker disappear completely.

 

They promote the idea of break-in because it helps reduce the number of speakers that get returned to dealers. 

 

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18 minutes ago, ODS123 said:

 

Um... These are $15,000 speaker built to order - which takes 6-8 weeks.  ..They got the time.  They can run-in the drivers as they build the cabinets.  Alternatively, they could simply allow sub-performing speakers to show up at dealers, fail comparison tests, then watch demand for the speaker disappear completely.

 

They promote the idea of break-in because it helps reduce the number of speakers that get returned to dealers. 

 

 

6-8 weeks for a build is not much time at all for custom work, again you don't know what is involved in the process.

 

 

 

 

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6-8 weeks is outrageous. I always take 12. 

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I’m afraid I’m with ODS and Ski on this one. 

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Next is driver matching, why not since they are running them right ?

 

Another few grand for the process...

 

There has to be a compromise and breaking in a new set of speakers is just part of ownership.

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19 minutes ago, jason str said:

Next is driver matching, why not since they are running them right ?

 

Another few grand for the process...

 

There has to be a compromise and breaking in a new set of speakers is just part of ownership.

 

Vandersteen does this (driver matching) even on their $2,700 2ce Signatures, or so he claims.  

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Klipsch used to match drivers, and still might. 

 

Driver break-in is a real thing - but times are often grossly exaggerated.

 

Same for capacitors: which only need 7-10 hours, but I often read about hundreds of hours. 

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22 minutes ago, Deang said:

Klipsch used to match drivers, and still might. 

 

Driver break-in is a real thing - but times are often grossly exaggerated.

 

Same for capacitors: which only need 7-10 hours, but I often read about hundreds of hours. 

 

I recall a Klipschorn anniversary edition mentioning driver matching but don't remember witch one.

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HF section...

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=== Zu Audio, famous for their 10 inch single driver speakers, (tweeter augmented) advertise factory speaker/driver break-in of 600 hours. (I’m just reporting what their website states)

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4 hours ago, Ski Bum said:

Those are testable claims, and the onus is on those claiming such things to support them.  They never actually do, but they are quite predictable in their responses defending their beliefs, often with stubborn ferocity. 

 

Feynman said the easiest person to fool is oneself. He was right, and all the golden ears posting here are proof of that.  

 

I think it's Shakey, Tiz, and Dave who should start their own forum, where they can bask in the warmth of validation from fellow golden ears, free from the unwelcome intrusion of rationalism, and more concerned with happy fun shopping time, as they share anecdotes from their respective "buy and try" primrose paths of blind consumerism. 

And how do you analytically and scientifically assess things?

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7 hours ago, glens said:

it always sounds somewhat different day-to-day. 

 

Agree.  Mood can be an important factor.  In the case of speakers and phono cartridges, perhaps room temperature matters.  Humidity?  Altitude? 

 

I remember a British phono cartridge manufacture saying, "to be operated at normal room temperature of 65 degrees."

 

When I was a teen, I used to think my tube equipment (Dyna, McIntosh) had "moods."  Now I think it is likely to be me with the mood swings.

 

But, whatever floats your boat.  PWK installed an altimeter in his car.

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So based on this chat can I assume that I should not do a big fuss when choosing an amp for my Forte I and simply buy something for $100/$200 max? 🙂

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18 minutes ago, EBEB said:

So based on this chat can I assume that I should not do a big fuss when choosing an amp for my Forte I and simply buy something for $100/$200 max? 🙂

You could very well do that. My forte' sounded awesome with my NEC integrated with plenty of headroom at volume 45 wpc...imlo

1980 vintage but good quality build.

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31 minutes ago, EBEB said:

So based on this chat can I assume that I should not do a big fuss when choosing an amp for my Forte I and simply buy something for $100/$200 max? 🙂

 

Spend more for more features and form factor.  Better sound? Possibly not.

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thanks, @ODS123

 

any suggestions for paring with a forte I ?

 

*Room -  big living room  15 x 20ft (4.6 x 6.0m)

* Setup - 2 Technics sl1200 and an e&s DJR400 mixer

*Music formats: mostly vinyl and from time to time streaming over an Audioengine B1 from the mixer

*Music type: Ambient, Jazz, Brazil, Disco and House (No rock or classic which seems to be on the paper the big plus of Klipsch

 

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39 minutes ago, EBEB said:

thanks, @ODS123

 

any suggestions for paring with a forte I ?

 

*Room -  big living room  15 x 20ft (4.6 x 6.0m)

* Setup - 2 Technics sl1200 and an e&s DJR400 mixer

*Music formats: mostly vinyl and from time to time streaming over an Audioengine B1 from the mixer

*Music type: Ambient, Jazz, Brazil, Disco and House (No rock or classic which seems to be on the paper the big plus of Klipsch

 

 Well, what are you using now? And  if you’re not happy with it, why? 

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