boom3 Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 3 minutes ago, WMcD said: Maybe they were thinking of a Patrician IV. Smile. WMcD Interesting that Paul never tried (that I know) to one-up the Patrician. I did read a Dope from Hope where Paul wrote that if he went to more powerful drivers, deep nulls would show up in the response not to mention even bigger cabinets. PWK never understood (nor do I) why a home listener would not be content with a maximum output of 121 dB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 7 hours ago, Kevin S said: Is it possible that the 8ft. length refers to what the length of a straight horn would have to be to reproduce the lowest Khorn frequency, and not the actual length of the Khorn’s path? You know, that may very well be it. My old advertising copy is packed away somewhere, but I seem to recall mention in it of "32-foot wavelengths" (approximately 35 Hz). Though the nominal design cutoff of the Klipschorn is, IIRC, 40 Hz, it still manages useful output in the mid-30s. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 2 hours ago, Islander said: The answer is kind of Yes and No. The LS bass horn is bifurcated for most of its length, but the two sides join at the mouth to become one big horn mouth, and that’s how the mouth size would be measured or calculated. Its in-room performance is like that of a single large horn, with no lobing issues. Therefore, the way it’s a single, non-bifurcated, horn at both its throat and mouth would make it, in effect, a single horn in every way that matters. That was my point, actually, but it was getting late and I was using my phone (which gets rather tedious). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin S Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 22 minutes ago, Edgar said: You know, that may very well be it. My old advertising copy is packed away somewhere, but I seem to recall mention in it of "32-foot wavelengths" (approximately 35 Hz). Though the nominal design cutoff of the Klipschorn is, IIRC, 40 Hz, it still manages useful output in the mid-30s. My recollection of my mid 80’s Khorns was a specified bandwidth of 32hz to 17khz, +/- 5db. It could have been 35hz though, my memory is not great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 42 minutes ago, Kevin S said: My recollection of my mid 80’s Khorns was a specified bandwidth of 32hz to 17khz, +/- 5db. It could have been 35hz though, my memory is not great. Yes, that does look familiar. And if it is -3dB at 40 Hz, then it could easily be -5dB at 32 Hz. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 15 hours ago, Schu said: The LS isn't bifurcated... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glens Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 It is bifurcated, it's also recombined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoff. Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 I thought I had seen the frequency response curves of bifurcated horns (Khorns) somewhere on this forum. Bifurcated horns exhibit entire drop-outs, however minute, as opposed to peaks or troughs, in their response curves, do they not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 57 minutes ago, geoff. said: Bifurcated horns exhibit entire drop-outs, however minute, as opposed to peaks or troughs, in their response curves, do they not? Not necessarily. It depends upon the wavelength, the distance between the apertures, the angle off-axis, and a few secondary factors. https://www.quora.com/Can-we-perform-Youngs-double-slit-experiment-with-sound-waves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 1 hour ago, glens said: It is bifurcated, it's also recombined. It can still generate an interference pattern. See Young's double slit experiment reference above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glens Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 4 minutes ago, Edgar said: It can still generate an interference pattern. See Young's double slit experiment reference above. Haven't yet read the link but have no problem believing the possibilities. After all, two paths always creates problems in ways, whether they're combined internally or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiva Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 just noticed this new vid on the Klipschhorn. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkytype Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 8 hours ago, Edgar said: Yes, that does look familiar. And if it is -3dB at 40 Hz, then it could easily be -5dB at 32 Hz. Circa 1988 Klipschorn: + or - 3 dB 35 Hz--17.5 kHz; Current? non-AK6: + or - 4 dB 33 Hz--17 kHz. AK6: + or - 4 dB 33 Hz--20 kHz. Did quite a bit of looking thru old audio-type magazines from the '50s to modern times including Wireless World, Audio Engineering, Radio & TV News, Radio Electronics, etc. Couldn't find any mention of the unfolded length of the Klipschorn. This site is a treasure trove of old technology and it's searchable. There are some good articles on horn loudspeakers, just search each magazine or the entire library. https://www.americanradiohistory.com/index.htm Lee Audio-1965-10-OCR-Page-0077.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glens Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 The Best of Audio Vol. IV "Display until Feb. 23, 1990" says: (35-17k +/- 5) (orig. pub. 11/86) "The low -frequency horn is substantially exponential in its expansion rate and thus would have an acoustic path length of about 8 feet if unfolded." I'll try to attach the PDF as I don't remember where to find the URL. It's >10 MB. I'll either pare it down or find the URL. In a bit... https://americanradiohistory.com/Archive-Audio/80s/Audio-Best-Of-Vol-IV.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkytype Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 Here's a copy of page one from the original 1986 November Audio with the text you cited. Wonder where Heyser got the "8 feet" information. PWK? Some forum member has published the complete Heyser review in the past but I could post what I have. Lee Review page 1 of 6.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakeydeal Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 This is a lot of banter about a speaker that sounds good no matter who is right about the details. And it DOES sound good. So who cares about the fluff........ Shakey 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boom3 Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 If we go back to PWK's original paper on the Klipschorn (which is in my storage unit right now) , it looks to me like he set the taper rate not for the physical length of the horn as it is, but as it would be if it was a straight horn. In other words, for the horn "magnified" (my term) by the corner . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander Posted April 29, 2019 Share Posted April 29, 2019 On 4/27/2019 at 10:15 AM, Shiva said: just noticed this new vid on the Klipschhorn. That’s a nice description of how the cabinet has been improved, and the quality of the materials and the work that goes into it, but that’s all he discusses. There’s nothing about any kind of improvements in the sound, nor anything about the drivers or crossover. The grille cloth is pretty special, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddeus Smith Posted April 29, 2019 Share Posted April 29, 2019 12 minutes ago, Islander said: That’s a nice description of how the cabinet has been improved, and the quality of the materials and the work that goes into it, but that’s all he discusses. There’s nothing about any kind of improvements in the sound, nor anything about the drivers or crossover. The grille cloth is pretty special, though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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