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bkwa1959

Rewiring Klipschorns

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22 minutes ago, bkwa1959 said:

I have watched this tread ramble on and on, how did a post that started out asking about the difference in 2 sets of speakerwires turn into this .I thought when I posted this tread I would get some debates about wires and how they don’t make a difference and to some that may be true,but to my ears I can tell a difference at least I can in my system.Call me crazy (my wife does)I enjoy trying different amps, Int amps,preamps and sources.I mean no offense to anyone posting and it has been fun to see what someone is going to write next.When my hiend Audio friends ask me what type of speakers I listen to and I tell them Klipschorns,they respond almost in shock KLIPSCHORNS!!!!, then I have them come by for a listen and once they do they are usually shocked.Now to get back on track, I really love the sound I am getting with my Western Electric wires.

 

My understanding is that in addition to the wires, you did other modifications also (drivers and horns).

In all fairness did you systematically determine what the subjective changes each modification may have contributed?

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Every thread ever started related to wire ends up like this.

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5 hours ago, PrestonTom said:

 

Okay, I will take the bait. 

 

I remember seeing that  Parts Connexion had some version of  a 10uF Copper Foil Duelund for a discounted price of $1,300. There was some controversy about whether it needed 200 vs 400 hours of break in. Sounds "fancy" to me!

 

Once again, this silliness leads some folks away from sensible strategies for getting better sound. That is unfortunate!

 

Good Luck, 

-Tom 

 

I wasn't trying to bait you, I just wanted clarification. I honestly can't think of anyone around here that has gone down that rabbit hole -- that's a crazy amount of money for a part. What you call "fancy", I call "voodoo". I build with, and point people to film and foils as opposed to metalized. You can completely recap an AA filter using film and foils for less than $225. Fully protected film and foils are more, but it's not a requirement for great performance, just longevity. I totally agree with your last statement. I have turned people away after hearing what their equipment list consists of. On more than one occasion I've recommend Bob and a new receiver or integrated.

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16 hours ago, Jeffrey D. Medwin said:

 

 

Everyone is so kind !!

 

What crossover were you using, building or manufacturing,  41 years ago?  This is an early, less advanced one. 

 

Back then,  Bob's  big J-Modular speakers got a #1 / " A" rating , "State Of The Art ", along with my friend Arnie Nudell's Infinity Servo Stat 1A, , by  Mr. Gordon Holt, Editor of Stereophile Magazine..  They were the Co-Champions .  I owned versions of both of them.

 

See the 57 1/8th inch Browns going from points on the crossover, trailing off the photo's bottom - left ?  Its actually going  to upper woofer and lower woofer.  See the 14 1/4 inch Brown leads, connecting  some key higher-current runs of the woofer section?  See the two 7 1/8th inch Brown runs connecting key parts?  

 

Jeffrey Medwin  

 

 

 

From all that' I've read, he never seemed to be able to keep a model in the lineup very long before trying to "update" it.  Doesn't do much for a company when you're changing models all the time and, what little dealers were selling his line, tough to stock it would seem unless everyone back then was good with opening up a  pair of speakers to add something minimal.

 

41 years ago I was 11 and listening to music because I enjoyed listening to "music" just as I am now at 52 versus chasing continual tweaks and upgrades.  

 

That wire could be dropped in length by an inch, or a foot, and the average person would never hear an iota of difference in them.  Maybe 0.0000001% of the world which makes for a very tiny market share that manufacturers would go broke chasing.

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13 hours ago, billybob said:

Seems I remember a Packard Bell entity ...👕

 

 

Yup....

 

b6d21515861225.56297ead9aa95.jpg

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9 hours ago, PrestonTom said:

 

My understanding is that in addition to the wires, you did other modifications also (drivers and horns).

In all fairness did you systematically determine what the subjective changes each modification may have contributed?

 

9 hours ago, PrestonTom said:

 

My understanding is that in addition to the wires, you did other modifications also (drivers and horns).

In all fairness did you systematically determine what the subjective changes each modification may have contributed?

I changed the wire first and then I made the other changes at the same time, changing the wires got me excited enough to make the other changes and I am more than pleased with my results.

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I am glad things worked out well for you. Some of us would be interested in your thoughts on the other changes you made and the nature of the differences .

Good Luck,

-Tom

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53 minutes ago, PrestonTom said:

I am glad things worked out well for you. Some of us would be interested in your thoughts on the other changes you made and the nature of the differences .

Good Luck,

-Tom

I have enjoyed this hobby for 40 years and during that time I have owned many pairs of top quality speakers,infinity rs 4.5’s,ads l2030’s ,Klipschorns,and many current day ultra hi end speakers,I miss the l2030 those were great speakers,but they need high power amps to drive them.I always loved Klipschorns,easy to drive and when setup in the right room they can do things no other speaker can do.The only downside to me is that after a couple of hours of listening  I get tired of listening to them.Then I found this forum and I read about the upgrades.2 things that I did not like about upgrading the speakers 1 they would no longer be a true Klipsch speaker and 2 the cost.I was lucky I picked up Cigarbum modded Klipsch and after I little work that got me hooked.I then began to piece by piece buy everything I needed to mod my current AK-4 Klipschorns,I played them for a month before making my changes.I kept switching out speakers and I finally decided to change the wires on my Klipschorns and when I did that I like what I heard,so I then changed out the horn using an adapter to use Klipsch drivers,if I didn’t have the other mids and tweeters I would have probably been ok, but first I tried the B&c dcm-50 midrange with de-120-8 tweeter and the alk cornscala universal crossover,open clear with no brightness.After a couple of days I switched out the B&C midrange for the bms-4592 nd mids and the bms midranges are the ones I plan on keeping in my speakers, I have a Volti vtk-400 crossover I may swap out,but for now I like the alk crossovers .I never intended to change these speakers,but after finishing I am glad I did.The bass is deep and fills the room without being too boomy and the detail I am getting from the avolti horns,with the alk crossovers and de-120-8 tweeters and bms-4592nd midranges are the best I have had in my system.I have switched back between 3 amp combinations line magnetic lm-126i ,inspire sep power amp and lp-3.a preamp and Primaluna Prologue Premium preamp and power amp.Each setup has it strong points.the Inspire pieces have a more open sound,th Primaluna is dead quiet and more dynamic and I am still playing the line magnetic and trying to decide the outcome on it.My wife is getting tired of hearing the same tracks over and over,but I tell her that is they only way I can really tell which sounds the best.Sorry to run on and on.

 

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19 hours ago, avguytx said:

 

 

Yup....

 

b6d21515861225.56297ead9aa95.jpg

the Packard automotive plant in Detroit. 3.5 mil square foot of trussed steerl reinforced concrete is still actually quite structally sound.

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On 8/12/2019 at 12:54 PM, Davis said:

So when I stagger off to bed and forget to turn the amp off it is a good thing!

I knew it, I just knew it.

 

Actually, in some cases it is better to leave power amps turned on.  Last year, I spoke with a Yamaha Music Canada rep at an open house at Atlas AVU (Audio Video Unlimited), one of the better home sound and vision shops here in town.  

 

When I asked the Yamaha rep about leaving components on or just turning them on when they’re being used, he told me that Yamaha recommends leaving their power amps on, since this eliminates the power surges that happen during turn-on/turn-off, which shortens the lives of amplifiers.  However, with receivers and maybe integrated amps, it gets a bit more complicated, since their displays and other features age whenever they’re turned on, so receivers and maybe integrated power amps should not be left on all the time.

 

Happily, the Class D power amps that I use draw very little power at idle, so it’s not like I’m heating the room and spinning the little wheel in the power meter outside my place.  I’ve seen in writing a few times that many SS amps, mine included, can take 24 hours or so to stabilize and sound their best after being turned on.  I haven’t personally tested this, but it sounds plausible.  Are tube power amps also like that?

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1 hour ago, Davis said:

the Packard automotive plant in Detroit. 3.5 mil square foot of trussed steerl reinforced concrete is still actually quite structally sound.

Fun fact...The Electronics Tech school that I attended and graduated from was right across Grand Boulevard from this plant. Parked in one of their parking lots quite often when school lot was full. Although closed and defunct at that time it did not look like bombs had hit it, this was circa 1978-1980.

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3 minutes ago, babadono said:

Fun fact...The Electronics Tech school that I attended and graduated from was right across Grand Boulevard from this plant.

What was the name of the Tech School?

Was it Radio, Electronics and Telephone School?

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Radio,Electronics,Television Schools.....RETS

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Just now, babadono said:

Radio,Electronics,Television Schools.....RETS

Fun Fact, I attended the same school (RETS) in Louisville, KY and my best friend and another good friend attended RETS in Grand Rapids

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Wow, twin sons of different mothers. I knew my school get taken over by National Technical Schools or some such after my tenure. I think they're all defunct now? As my current employer is finding out it is very hard to find people that know how stuff works down at the nuts and bolts level. Computer Science and programming sure a dime a dozen, but how does transistor work not so much. I'm part of a dying breed.

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23 minutes ago, babadono said:

Wow, twin sons of different mothers. I knew my school get taken over by National Technical Schools or some such after my tenure. I think they're all defunct now? As my current employer is finding out it is very hard to find people that know how stuff works down at the nuts and bolts level. Computer Science and programming sure a dime a dozen, but how does transistor work not so much. I'm part of a dying breed.

I have not done much component level electronics except for fun in a long time. While attending RETS  I was working for a Railroad/Transit signal company as a draftsman so I moved into design from there. DC relay logic track circuits and grade crossing control circuits mainly. Then to an Architectural/Engineering firm where it was everything from 480 volt 3 phase to low voltage sound, fire, data networks and everything in between required for building design.

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On 8/12/2019 at 12:59 PM, Jeffrey D. Medwin said:

Inside an a DIY amp I am constructing, one can often hear the difference between one inch of 16 AWG versus the use of 10 AWG for that same one inch span. 

:pwk_bs:

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Fun fact, I attended RETS too!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not really, I just wanted to be included in the fun.

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35 minutes ago, Deang said:

:pwk_bs:

That BS button is entirely to small for the statement it references.

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On 8/12/2019 at 11:59 AM, Jeffrey D. Medwin said:

Inside an a DIY amp I am constructing, one can often hear the difference between one inch of 16 AWG versus the use of 10 AWG for that same one inch span. 

giphy.gif 

 

41 minutes ago, Deang said:

:pwk_bs:

 

source.gif

 

3 minutes ago, Davis said:

That BS button is entirely to small for the statement it references.

 

 

giphy.gif

 

 

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