jimjimbo Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 84 and breezy off the Caribbean..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karlson3 Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 (kinda like "Who's on First?) - outer foil proximity in high impedance circuits to ground plane seems to be a real concern with regard to noise pickup. Dunno about crossover applications. If a battery biases the junction of two film foil caps for a charge coupled crossover - how should those two caps outer foil be oriented for best performance? http://www.jimmyauw.com/2010/04/24/observing-inner-and-outer-foil-of-some-popular-capacitors/ http://www.aikenamps.com/index.php/where-to-connect-the-outside-foil-on-capacitors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 35 minutes ago, karlson3 said: Dunno about crossover applications. You seem like a bright person. Go back and read the tongue in cheek comments by Glens. There is no such thing as "negative" on a crossover filter. What happens when you flip your speaker cables - does your amp explode? It's AC. Alternating Current. Crossovers do not care about the orientation of the foil. *Direction : AC-It reverses its direction while flowing in a circuit. DC-It flows in one direction in the circuit. *Current : AC-It is the current of magnitude varying with time DC-It is the current of constant magnitude. *Flow of Electrons : AC-Electrons keep switching directions - forward and backward. DC-Electrons move steadily in one direction or 'forward'. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karlson3 Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 the logical orientation of a capacitor in a crossover network = " - positioned where its label stating value and voltage can be easily read". I do believe caps can sound "different" and various dielectric can be used to tune "tone" to some degree. Can paper and Mylar dielectrics vs lower loss polypropylene subjectively "round" transient attack? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 I agree with the former. As for the latter, yes, they soften transients a bit, which means you can actually hear the trailing edge as opposed to sounding spitty and too forward. Polypropylene film and foil also sound a little softer than their metalized counterparts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave1290 Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 All I know is I truly enjoy my system just the way it is. Sure I could upgrade to the moon and back but never have anything close to what you're describing. The thing I can't figure out about all of this debate is what in the world are you doing 50 miles from KC Jeff? You should be sitting somewhere drinking Corona on a beach 24/7 livin the life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 26 minutes ago, Jeffrey D. Medwin said: I don't drink alcohol, smoke, nor have I ever shot off a round with a gun !! I also don't drink, smoke, or associate with the wrong kind of women. As for guns, I'm from West Virginia. I hold a CCW license and I believe it's state law that a long gun is required to be placed by the front door at all times. At least that's what my dad taught me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave A Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 1 hour ago, Jeffrey D. Medwin said: Experienced audiophiles KNOW what LPs or CDs are recorded in or out of absolute phase. There is no excuse for taking shortcuts and assuming things in audio. IF you seek optimized results, ya gotta have great amps and good wiring, and listen critically. Most of the people in audio, flunk-out on amps !! BTW, I got my DIY SET DC Amps back today, after being away with some trusted friends to audition, for 9 weeks. From what I experienced this afternoon ( a 6.5 hour listening session ), adjusting the top-most horn position for time-alignment, on music, was detectable by me to about 1/64th of an inch. Jeff Medwin 8 g and ragged out A7's and a stock broker too wow!! No one believes you but your delusional flights of fantasy make great fictional reading. You don't have a picture of yourself posing with your gear do you? 57 minutes ago, wvu80 said: As for guns, I'm from West Virginia. I hold a CCW license and I believe it's state law that a long gun is required to be placed by the front door at all times. At least that's what my dad taught me Don't give him ideas. Some people don't need to own guns and heaven forbid he become an expert on those too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 8 minutes ago, Dave A said: Don't give him ideas. Some people don't need to own guns and heaven forbid he become an expert on those too. LOL! I guess that's what I get for not following this thread! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 4 hours ago, Jeffrey D. Medwin said: Deang said: You seem like a bright person. Go back and read the tongue in cheek comments by Glens. There is no such thing as "negative" on a crossover filter. What happens when you flip your speaker cables - does your amp explode? It's AC. Alternating Current. Crossovers do not care about the orientation of the foil. *Direction : AC-It reverses its direction while flowing in a circuit. DC-It flows in one direction in the circuit. *Current : AC-It is the current of magnitude varying with time DC-It is the current of constant magnitude. *Flow of Electrons : AC-Electrons keep switching directions - forward and backward. DC-Electrons move steadily in one direction or 'forward'. Quote I LOVE this : " Crossovers do not care about the orientation of the foil. " Not correct at all. How come they sound different on a good system, ( and to the original poster of this thread - Kreg ), depending on how they are orientated ?? Jeff So Jeffery these FACTS are wrong? I suppose YOU invented A/C current? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karlson3 Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 - some solid state amps tend to foreshorten/ "flatten" depth - maybe some exaggerate (J. Strickland's Transana and Transnova sounded better to me than the EP2500 in regards to less grit, better separation of instruments )- I'm useless at reading schematics but would assume some (subjective) damage is done pretty early in the signal's travel. It probably measured "ok". I guess part depends on how really clean our recordings might be. If amplifier power is set for a few watts peak, which amp might be more transparent - Jeff's two stage? - or the EP2500 below ? http://sportsbil.com/other/BEHRINGER EP2500 SCH.pdf Solid state amps I had did sound quite different. I had Belles "A" - Dave Belles completely reworked the amp to class AB. His class A circuit was naturally very hot and the sound "dark" with soundstage emphasis towards "deep". The reworked amp was bright but clean compared to a lot of other transistor amps and pulled the impression of instruments more forwards. My speakers in those days were mainly Magnepan so there wasn't much of a reactive load to make the amps sound different. I do appreciate solid state when it sounds decent and doesn't blow up. A cheap JLH 1969 amp direct from China sounds ok considering a fair amount of feedback and electrolytic output/blocking caps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glens Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 Unless you wire a DPDT (break before make) switch as I described earlier, there's no way you'd be able to truly discern whether there's a difference re cap orientation in a crossover. Even in a low-level feed-through situation where the perceived quality of the sound (apart from picked-up-and-later-amplified noise) is in question, unless you can immediately ("live") switch between methods for A/B purposes, you're fooling yourself - it's virtually impossible to critically A/B with more than moments between the A and the B. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glens Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 Lile I said, Jeff, you're fooling yourself. Just like when you say you can discern 16' 40" degrees phase angle difference. That just over 1/4 degree. No freakin' way! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Richard Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 What about non-inductive resistors used in crossovers? Do they have a specific orientation too? 🙄 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 5 hours ago, karlson3 said: - some solid state amps tend to foreshorten/ "flatten" depth - maybe some exaggerate (J. Strickland's Transana and Transnova sounded better to me than the EP2500 in regards to less grit, better separation of instruments )- I'm useless at reading schematics but would assume some (subjective) damage is done pretty early in the signal's travel. It probably measured "ok". I guess part depends on how really clean our recordings might be. If amplifier power is set for a few watts peak, which amp might be more transparent - Jeff's two stage? - or the EP2500 below ? http://sportsbil.com/other/BEHRINGER EP2500 SCH.pdf The Behringer referenced above is a Chinese clone of a QSC pro style amp. They're good for powering subwoofers and not much else. I can't imagine anyone actually using one on their mains. Pretty much any amp would sound better than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awsjr Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 22 minutes ago, Dave A said: There was another one who would always tell tall tales rather than the truth and had to embellish everything with impossible claims only he never grew out of it. Always striving to get attention no matter the cost and the more you argued or ignored him the wilder the claims became. Who would that be perchance? You are pure bovine powered troll at it's best with scant snippets of reality here and there. well put... I warned you about this guy... ignore him... don't reply to him... and hopefully he will just go away and no longer post on this forum.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave A Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 1 hour ago, awsjr said: well put... I warned you about this guy... ignore him... don't reply to him... and hopefully he will just go away and no longer post on this forum.... Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capo72 Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 5 hours ago, Jeffrey D. Medwin said: I'm sorry Glen, but you can not add a switch with wiring to the part being measured. You are adding factors like contact resistance, lead lengths, extra solder joints, extra wire, that make it unmanageable. After looking at the pictures of your solder work, I feel there is some real irony in this statement. adjusting the top-most horn position for time-alignment, on music, was detectable by me to about 1/64th of an inch. I just have to call B.S. on this one. If your hearing is as gifted as you imply, you could make tremendous amounts of money consulting with manufacturers to make subjective matter absolute and eliminate needless, expensive measuring equipment. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 Jeffrey, you remind me of an episode of the old 'Twilight Zone' and the main character was a guy named 'Frisbee'. Yep, that guy fits you to a T. I think it is time for me to try and find that ignore user button . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 47 minutes ago, Alexander said: Jeffrey, you remind me of an episode of the old 'Twilight Zone' and the main character was a guy named 'Frisbee'. Yep, that guy fits you to a T. I think it is time for me to try and find that ignore user button . That's really obscure. Funny but obscure, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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