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K402 newby setup


tromprof
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On 11/9/2021 at 1:49 PM, tromprof said:

I did also get a B&C DE750TN for my center channel between the K402s. The center HP640 with the EV DH1A driver did not sound right with the K402/K-691 for LR, but matches up much better with the B&C. I plan on trying a couple more horns to get it just right but the B&C seems to be the same driver as the K-691.

Unless Roy is doing some kind of phase plug magic to the K-691, it's more than likely a B&C driver, unless of course he cut a deal with Celestion for other drivers besides "the Big One."

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We have more trouble with shipping these things than anything else.  It's not just our carriers, we've had them damaged from Klipsch to us more than once.  Just very fragile with literally zero internal stuffing of any kind.  The box just collapses and that's that.  Even if they don't stack stuff, other customers tend to try to ship tall items and don't strap them down or whatever so stuff tends to fall.  Doesn't take much and you get a shattered 402 horn.  All we can do is deal with the fallout afterwards.  Either that or spend like $700 a shipment to rent an actual crate and pay for the extra weight.  Unfortunately it's just one of those things where you have to risk it, there's no good answer.  

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5 hours ago, mark1101 said:

 

Well someone might like the holes and actually drill more for better sound.  To each there own I guess.  🙂

 

Why not grab some tape, cover the holes, and see for yourself?  

 

Two or three weeks should be long enough to see if you look at your 402s any differently with the unused mounting holes covered.  Size is likely a factor in this mysterious area, since the 510 horns didn’t seem to cause the slight discomfort that the “holey” K402s do.  YMMV (Your Mind May Vary), of course.

 

It could also be a sense of incompleteness that we’re seeing with the unused holes showing.  Something nags at us faintly that the job is only 99% finished, that something should be be bolted onto those flanges, but we’re not sure just what.  Roy assures us that an extended baffle is unneeded when these horns are part of a pair of “underground/original/Pro Theater” Jubilees, or Jubescalas/JuBelles, etc., so that can’t be it.

 

Some folks may feel the “room dominance” effect, some may feel the “incompleteness” effect, some may feel neither, while some folks may feel both. In any case, this is something that can be quickly, easily, and cheaply fixed.  How often do we hear those three words in a description of a speaker tweak?  Go for it!

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8 hours ago, Coytee said:

 

 

I have an extra TAD driver (not for sale BTW).

 

I've been hankering lately to drive up there ......for lunch (Chesters in Hamilton)

 

If I did that, I'd be happy to bring it with me and let you do a side by side for an hour or so... (perhaps just enough to whet your appetite??)

 

While you're salivating over that, I'd be stuffing my face with Chesters...


Let me know when you are coming up. It would be pleasure to meet you.

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I followed your suggestions and put in the plastic plugs. Aesthetically they are more pleasing. It is subtle but a just different feel in the room. Or maybe I am imagining it, perception bias and all that. YMMV.
You could always get some sticking black velvet to attach to the flat face...might even help the sound.

Sent from my SM-G985F using Tapatalk

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15 hours ago, Paducah Home Theater said:

We have more trouble with shipping these things than anything else.  It's not just our carriers, we've had them damaged from Klipsch to us more than once.  Just very fragile with literally zero internal stuffing of any kind. 

 

 

there is one way , which is to use a foam padded  box for the K402 , either injected foam to fit ,  or the foam types found in computer servers , it could also be  cardboard molded type protectors    that cover both halves of the horn

 

yes it's gonna have to  be a bigger box , but it will also be  a safer box , and way less damages or insurance claims , RMA's .....paperwork-plus the stress

 

-  if the horn is busted  using  foam boxes or molded cardboard boxes  ,  then , you got a carrier problem ---versus a  horn packaging problem -

 

Finally, klipsch can also re-manufacture the K402  horns  with a wall thickness of 0.6 inch to increase the resistance of the horn to impacts -

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, RandyH001 said:

 

 

there is one way , which is to use a foam padded  box for the K402 , either injected foam to fit ,  or the foam types found in computer servers , it could also be  cardboard molded type protectors    that cover both halves of the horn

 

 

 

 

That is how I received my turntable. It fit into the foam pieces like a glove. And it was very stable inside that box for transportation.

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19 hours ago, Islander said:

 

Why not grab some tape, cover the holes, and see for yourself?  

 

Two or three weeks should be long enough to see if you look at your 402s any differently with the unused mounting holes covered.  Size is likely a factor in this mysterious area, since the 510 horns didn’t seem to cause the slight discomfort that the “holey” K402s do.  YMMV (Your Mind May Vary), of course.

 

It could also be a sense of incompleteness that we’re seeing with the unused holes showing.  Something nags at us faintly that the job is only 99% finished, that something should be be bolted onto those flanges, but we’re not sure just what.  Roy assures us that an extended baffle is unneeded when these horns are part of a pair of “underground/original/Pro Theater” Jubilees, or Jubescalas/JuBelles, etc., so that can’t be it.

 

Some folks may feel the “room dominance” effect, some may feel the “incompleteness” effect, some may feel neither, while some folks may feel both. In any case, this is something that can be quickly, easily, and cheaply fixed.  How often do we hear those three words in a description of a speaker tweak?  Go for it!

 

You could always bolt a 510 assembly to your horns like I did.  That cuts the unused holes to 6.  What's a half dozen holes among friends?

 

I have to say I have had 402 horns for a really long time and I never looked at the holes.  It's usually somewhat dark in my room.  But I'm not a hole looker I guess.

 

Quit looking at your horns man, your going to have an audio nervosa breakdown.

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On 11/10/2021 at 6:56 PM, Paducah Home Theater said:

We have more trouble with shipping these things than anything else.  It's not just our carriers, we've had them damaged from Klipsch to us more than once.  Just very fragile with literally zero internal stuffing of any kind.  The box just collapses and that's that.  Even if they don't stack stuff, other customers tend to try to ship tall items and don't strap them down or whatever so stuff tends to fall.  Doesn't take much and you get a shattered 402 horn.  All we can do is deal with the fallout afterwards.  Either that or spend like $700 a shipment to rent an actual crate and pay for the extra weight.  Unfortunately it's just one of those things where you have to risk it, there's no good answer.  

Your plywood and plastic wrapping solution worked very well on my shipment.  I am still in the process of reusing the plywood in other projects.  Good thing I have forks for my skid steer so moving them from the end of the driveway to the audio room was easy.

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6 hours ago, mark1101 said:

 

You could always bolt a 510 assembly to your horns like I did.  That cuts the unused holes to 6.  What's a half dozen holes among friends?

 

I have to say I have had 402 horns for a really long time and I never looked at the holes.  It's usually somewhat dark in my room.  But I'm not a hole looker I guess.

 

Quit looking at your horns man, your going to have an audio nervosa breakdown.

I think he should mount some LED lights in there. Red and green blinkies for Christmas perhaps.

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On 11/9/2021 at 12:34 PM, MMurg said:

Roy created an external phase plug that mates up with the Axi2050 internal phase plug to get the coverage pattern consistent up past 19 kHz.

I would love to hear a set of Celestions with and without Roy's phase plugs. I can tell you today if I was seeking a new set of 402's with 1132 drivers I would buy new from Klipsch. I have had a chance to do direct comparison between the old 1132 style phase plug and the new ones side by side. The difference was not subtle.

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3 hours ago, Dave A said:

I would love to hear a set of Celestions with and without Roy's phase plugs. I can tell you today if I was seeking a new set of 402's with 1132 drivers I would buy new from Klipsch. I have had a chance to do direct comparison between the old 1132 style phase plug and the new ones side by side. The difference was not subtle.

I still think the K1133 drivers are better, and with your sMAHLs, the K-402's are even better! The 3-way version of the Commercial Jubilees (now called Undergroud) sounded better to my ears in Hope.

 

I think the new Jubilee is like a 4-way system, using PEQ. The phase plug, spreads the highs Wider in the K-402 (what a great idea by Roy), and the sub bass is taken care of by horn loaded bass ports.

 

None of it could be done without bi amping and PEQ, which is a great use of modern technology that PWK never had when he designed the Klipshorn.

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23 minutes ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

If you do a Co-Axial mount, then the sMAHL is a better choice.

Claude

 

I am a bit confused as to what you mean by a Co-Axial mount , I guess I would need a picture to understand it better -

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45 minutes ago, RandyH said:

Claude

 

I am a bit confused as to what you mean by a Co-Axial mount , I guess I would need a picture to understand it better -

Like PWK did with the original K5-J horn, he put a tweeter across the mouth of the horn, except nowadays, we have Time Delays in our Digital Crossovers, so it would be phase coherent. Something that PWK did not think was important. When you consider the 45 degree toe-in of the Khorns, having the tweeter blocking the central part of the output on a K-402 will have very little sonic consequence since, physically, it's so small compared to the mouth of the mid.

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2 minutes ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

Like PWK did with the original K5-J horn, he put a tweeter across the mouth of the horn, except nowadays, we have Time Delays in our Digital Crossovers, so it would be phase coherent. Something that PWK did not think was important. When you consider the 45 degree toe-in of the Khorns, having the tweeter blocking the central part of the output on a K-402 will have very little sonic consequence since, physically, it's so small compared to the mouth of the mid.

yep , makes a lot of sense now ,  the SMAHL  lens is less intrusive and one forgets that the K5-J and the EV SM-120A were designed with tweeters inside the horns   , in this case , you get all the benefits with a 3 way and way less money than a 2 way Axi 2050 or  B&C DCX50 -

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