Racer X Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 Alright, apparently my Youtube algorithm thinks I follow Paul now, must remember to use Incognito mode.... As usual, suggest muted, 2 X speed, with closed captions, there is no other way with Paul. But, there is a nugget of interest, something along the line of Pulse Density Modulation (PDM) (DSD) vs. Pulse Width Modulation (PWM) (Class D amps). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 I think almost any amp topology can potentially be fatiguing... but especially so for D and H. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racer X Posted August 23, 2022 Author Share Posted August 23, 2022 Spoiler Alert: Paul said not all Class D amps are fatiguing: His and Bruno's aren't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racer X Posted August 23, 2022 Author Share Posted August 23, 2022 Side note: Once tested a vintage Class A amp, Pioneer M22. No sonic signature whatsoever. Flipped that puppy so fast.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the real Duke Spinner Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 Whatever for ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racer X Posted August 23, 2022 Author Share Posted August 23, 2022 Just flipped it to the guy I beat out responding to the AudioMart ad, gave it to him same price, interesting experiment.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjptkd Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 Don't have a lot of experience with class D had a few Topping PA5's running for awhile I didn't consider them fatiguing, kind of sterile maybe. For the price they actually surprised me they did sound pretty good, clean with a decent sized sound stage which I didn't expect, can only imagine how good the higher end class D amps sound. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racer X Posted August 23, 2022 Author Share Posted August 23, 2022 Um, is sterile a good word, desirable ? Asking for a friend.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the real Duke Spinner Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 They have been neutered. 😟 Flat, unemotional, whatever I did not find music engaging More like MuZak in the Mall Back when there were those things 🙄 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonicSeeker Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 I had a Halcro for a while and it sounded very good but it was missing something. It never drew me into the music, hard to explain. ymmv 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the real Duke Spinner Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 5 hours ago, SonicSeeker said: I had a Halcro for a while and it sounded very good but it was missing something. It never drew me into the music, hard to explain. ymmv Exactly ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolox Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 I use exclusively class D amps. On the > 500Hz range I use a fully modded Trends TA10.1 amp (TA2024 chip) with a low noise, high current linear PSU. On the 60 to 500Hz range I use a 25USD (you read that right) AliExpress amp with TPA3255 chip and an external SMPS PSU. only the subs use class AB amps - that's what they came with. I don't find the Trends amp to be aggressive, not at all in fact - and the upgraded linear PSU really raised the sound, making the treble much more natural, less "spitty". Every system has to compromise somewhere; my compromise is to keep the system completely foolproof and having the least electricity consumption possible. It stays on 24/7, barely draws any current, stays cold, and if someone turns an amp oFF or ON there are no dangerous transients in the drivers; I don't need to use a capacitor to protect them. Other people in the house use the system; all you need to do is select your desired source and press "play". The sound is clean, wide open, precise, and transparent - every upstream change (including vibration footers, cables, and of course change of DAC or preamplifier) is heard BIG TIME. The personality of every element comes through with ease. Differences in recordings as well, obviously. The amps are also dead silent which is a huge bonus with 105dB speakers. I've recently swapped the Trends amp for a pure class A amp, it sounded different, sure, a tiny bit warmer, but not enough to have me reconsider. Of course they could be considered somewhat "sterile" compared to other amps but in my system, I feel it's the source and the preamp who give the most personality / signature to the sound, and I rely on them to give me the musicality I'm after. The amps are merely passing up the sound to the speakers. My budget is rather low, I used to own plenty of vintage or second hand class AB or class A solid state, but I grew tired of the recurrent reliability issues, and I did have a big class AB amp killing my woofers once. Now don't get me wrong, if I had unlimited budget, and if I was the only one using the system, I would probably consider class A or tubes (or both) but in the current state of affairs (and having just paid a HUGE electricity bill, a bill that would have been probably double if I was using conventional amps) those little class D marvels are a fine "compromise" and I prefer to focus on the source (my next upgrade will most likely be a new DAC) and accessories. YMMV, as always. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 Just curious... what is a 'huge' electricity bill? Might be food for another thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geezin' Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 It's becoming apparent I cannot hear what others do. I have a budget system consisting of a Topping PA3s,Schiit Modi 3 and Klipsch R610f fed by an '09 iMac from mostly Spotify. Occasionally I'll listen to CDs from iTunes on it as well. I find it revealing details never heard before on songs I've literally heard thousands of times. I do not even understand what fatiguing is when speaking of music reproduction. I will be moving up the scale on speakers soon. Just bought a house and cash is short and cannot make up my mind what to buy. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry4841 Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 15 hours ago, jjptkd said: Don't have a lot of experience with class D had a few Topping PA5's running for awhile I didn't consider them fatiguing, kind of sterile maybe. Perhaps dry is another term for some of the cheaper ones. I have tried a few of them over the years. In fact I am using a TPA3116 board build for my computer and cheap speakers in my kitchen and just leave it on all day. Good enough there. The ICE boards have a tubey kind of sound. Pleasant sounding. I have a TPA3255 board build with a linear supply I could be happy with if it were my only amp and I am mostly a class A guy. Best bass I have heard in an amplifier. Definitely the wave of the future in mass market amplifiers for sale other than the high end target market. Many guys here love their higher priced class D amplifiers as well. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 1 hour ago, henry4841 said: I have a TPA3255 board build with a linear supply I could be happy with if it were my only amp and I am mostly a class A guy. Best bass I have heard in an amplifier. My experience has been similar. I have a couple of vintage amps (G.A.S. Son of Ampzilla and Grandson) that finally died. I discarded all of the original amplifier parts and kept only the linear power supplies; added TPA3255 boards from 3E Audio. Absolutely amazing at bass frequencies, but only adequate at higher frequencies. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 18 hours ago, jjptkd said: Don't have a lot of experience with class D had a few Topping PA5's running for awhile I didn't consider them fatiguing, kind of sterile maybe. sterile is the fatigue... for me. it's not engaging or 'emotionally moving'... bland, dry, sterile, fatiguing. I also find that the class D image is pretty flat... and I am chasing that dragon that is liquidity and dimension. this pertains ONLY TO the midrange... as far as bass goes, the damping factor for class D is off the charts good... but music lives in the mid range. this is why I use a tube amp for my mid's and a class D for my bass. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 3 hours ago, geezin' said: It's becoming apparent I cannot hear what others do. I have a budget system consisting of a Topping PA3s,Schiit Modi 3 and Klipsch R610f fed by an '09 iMac from mostly Spotify. Occasionally I'll listen to CDs from iTunes on it as well. I find it revealing details never heard before on songs I've literally heard thousands of times. I do not even understand what fatiguing is when speaking of music reproduction. I will be moving up the scale on speakers soon. Just bought a house and cash is short and cannot make up my mind what to buy. just enjoy your music... there is time to enjoy equipment at some point down the road, and perhaps you are right... perhaps it is not that important to you to try other things because you, or others, might not be able to hear the difference. we all hear differently and have differing requirements for satisfaction. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakeydeal Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 4 hours ago, geezin' said: It's becoming apparent I cannot hear what others do. I have a budget system consisting of a Topping PA3s,Schiit Modi 3 and Klipsch R610f fed by an '09 iMac from mostly Spotify. Occasionally I'll listen to CDs from iTunes on it as well. I find it revealing details never heard before on songs I've literally heard thousands of times. I do not even understand what fatiguing is when speaking of music reproduction. I will be moving up the scale on speakers soon. Just bought a house and cash is short and cannot make up my mind what to buy. Before you look at any upgrades on the equipment front, you should improve your source material. Better gear won't matter if you are listening to lossy music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racer X Posted August 24, 2022 Author Share Posted August 24, 2022 Kind of disagree on this point. For me the sweet spot is 320 kps mp3, sweetened with some dbx. Higher res files don't do it for me, just gilding the lily. But any change or improvement to speakers, amps, or wires immediately apparent. Agree one can not pay too much attention to room treatment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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