Islander Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 On 8/7/2023 at 5:23 AM, KT88 said: Just a thought, if quite recently Roy/Klipsch launched a very thoughtful KJH that reaches 18 Hz, then I would test or make use of the same principles to achieve real and high quality bass down to 28 Hz (sufficient for most of music) with a smaller cabinet which fits a LaScala system. That odd gap in the text below seems to be stuck there, so try to ignore it. I had a sub that was rated down to 23 Hz, and enjoyed it for many years. In 2020, I replaced it with a sub from the same company (Paradigm) , and some of the specs were similar: sealed housing, front-firing direct-firing 10" cone driver, although the new sub's driver is nearly flat, not cone-shaped. The first sub had a 400 watt amplifier, while the new one has an 850 watt amp, both RMS, of course. The new one is rated down to 18 Hz, and the difference is day and night. Yes, the new one is from a higher line of the same company, so the parts are better and it has more advanced engineering, but the general "It's a front-firing 10" sub in a sealed box" similarities would suggest just an incremental difference, but not so. The new subs (I added a second one a few months later, as I had planned) do more than produce another fraction of an octave of music. Now you can get some sense of the performance space, or just a more spacious sensation. Interestingly, although the subs help the speakers produce a more lifelike sound, sometimes it seems like more bass pressure than I need. It's a bit like having a live band playing on the other side of the wall when you'd like to get to sleep. It's easy to turn off the subs by a menu on the AVR/preamp, so I often do that when I'm listening late at night, like right now, at 4 am. That has given me a new respect for the La Scala bass. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakeydeal Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 Lascala bass doesn't go very deep, but it is very powerful. I can understand why @michaelwjones opted not to have subs when he owned them. I still prefer the sound with subs, but there's plenty of bass for rock music and acoustic jazz bass w/o them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry4841 Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 15 minutes ago, Shakeydeal said: Lascala bass doesn't go very deep, but it is very powerful. I can understand why @michaelwjones opted not to have subs when he owned them. I still prefer the sound with subs, but there's plenty of bass for rock music and acoustic jazz bass w/o them. Well said. I own a decent sub but for the last few months I have not turned it on with my LaScala's. Listened that way for 30 years and never thought I was missing much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OO1 Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 the greatest news is the klipsch Vented horn subs will be part of the klipsch Heritage series Made in Hope Arkansas USA 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the real Duke Spinner Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 6 hours ago, Islander said: That odd gap in the text below seems to be stuck there, so try to ignore it. I had a sub that was rated down to 23 Hz, and enjoyed it for many years. In 2020, I replaced it with a sub from the same company (Paradigm) , and some of the specs were similar: sealed housing, front-firing direct-firing 10" cone driver, although the new sub's driver is nearly flat, not cone-shaped. The first sub had a 400 watt amplifier, while the new one has an 850 watt amp, both RMS, of course. The new one is rated down to 18 Hz, and the difference is day and night. Yes, the new one is from a higher line of the same company, so the parts are better and it has more advanced engineering, but the general "It's a front-firing 10" sub in a sealed box" similarities would suggest just an incremental difference, but not so. The new subs (I added a second one a few months later, as I had planned) do more than produce another fraction of an octave of music. Now you can get some sense of the performance space, or just a more spacious sensation. Interestingly, although the subs help the speakers produce a more lifelike sound, sometimes it seems like more bass pressure than I need. It's a bit like having a live band playing on the other side of the wall when you'd like to get to sleep. It's easy to turn off the subs by a menu on the AVR/preamp, so I often do that when I'm listening late at night, like right now, at 4 am. That has given me a new respect for the La Scala bass. You realize a Bass Guitar only hits down to 40 hz ?? What you listening to ?? Turntable rumble ?? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMurg Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 29 minutes ago, the real Duke Spinner said: You realize a Bass Guitar only hits down to 40 hz ?? What you listening to ?? Turntable rumble ?? Several instruments besides the obvious pipe organ or synthesizer can produce fundamentals in the region of deep bass around the first two octaves (center frequencies of 16 & 32 Hz): piano, bass (not bass guitar but string bass for orchestra/jazz), tuba, harp, contrabassoon, and others. There can also be very low bass in good recordings of all genres that pick up the room resonances, the faithful reproduction of which helps transport the listener to the venue. So, if you listen to some types of jazz, much classical music, solo piano, other music with similar instruments, or synthesizer music then you may want a sub (or true full-range speakers like the Heritage Jubilee) that can reproduce frequencies in the deep bass octaves. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the real Duke Spinner Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 I had a Cerwin Vega sub at one time But I found I preferred female subs. 😀😀😀 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 On 8/9/2023 at 1:20 PM, MMurg said: Several instruments besides the obvious pipe organ or synthesizer can produce fundamentals in the region of deep bass around the first two octaves (center frequencies of 16 & 32 Hz): piano, bass (not bass guitar but string bass for orchestra/jazz), tuba, harp, contrabassoon, and others. There can also be very low bass in good recordings of all genres that pick up the room resonances, the faithful reproduction of which helps transport the listener to the venue. So, if you listen to some types of jazz, much classical music, solo piano, other music with similar instruments, or synthesizer music then you may want a sub (or true full-range speakers like the Heritage Jubilee) that can reproduce frequencies in the deep bass octaves. Exactly! Very well said. And some snobby hi-fi magazine writers who initially rejected subwoofers as only needed for movie explosions and the like were surprised to find that they had beneficial effects all the way into the midrange, in similar fashion to how super tweeters can also produce beneficial effects all the way down to the upper midrange. BTW, Duke, the lowest note on a 5-string bass guitar is 32 HZ, and some metal and hard rock bassists even have 6- or 7-string bass guitars. Then there's the Chapman Stick, which can go pretty low, too. Finally, nothing performs well at the very edge of its abilities, so to listen to musical notes at, say 40 Hz, a speaker that's rated down to 40 Hz won't do the good job that you'll get from a speaker that goes down to 32 Hz, or even lower. Just like horn-loaded speakers sound so good because their drivers are barely moving, thus staying within their linear range, a speaker that's not near the edge of the envelope, so to speak, is more likely to be within its linear range, thus producing much less distortion. One last thing: I really envy those Heritage Jubilees. A true full-range speaker! Wonderful! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 13 minutes ago, the real Duke Spinner said: I had a Cerwin Vega sub at one time But I found I preferred female subs. 😀😀😀 Wow! I didn't think that this would be the place that you tell us you're a Dom, lol! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 I heard a drummer play the bass kick drum at 16Hz one time 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 15 hours ago, Marvel said: Oh, WOW! I can't come up with anything better... think harder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 15 hours ago, Marvel said: Oh, WOW! I can't come up with anything better... But will you attend? Might be a good occasion to finally meet you, Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 5 minutes ago, babadono said: But will you attend? Might be a good occasion to finally meet you, Bruce Would love to attend, but no... budget and time is pretty scarce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry4841 Posted August 10, 2023 Share Posted August 10, 2023 Subs have entertainment value when paired with speakers. They do add something to the mix even if not used all the time. Anyone that has been to a live concert understands the music is bass heavy. Talking electronic music concert. Not something you want in a home environment all the time though unless you are a bass fanatic and have good neighbors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakeydeal Posted August 10, 2023 Share Posted August 10, 2023 Quote unless you are a bass fanatic and have good neighbors. Kinda hard to enjoy horn speakers the way they were meant to be enjoyed and live in an apartment or condo. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KT88 Posted August 10, 2023 Share Posted August 10, 2023 19 hours ago, MMurg said: Several instruments besides the obvious pipe organ or synthesizer can produce fundamentals in the region of deep bass around the first two octaves (center frequencies of 16 & 32 Hz): piano, bass (not bass guitar but string bass for orchestra/jazz), tuba, harp, contrabassoon, and others. There can also be very low bass in good recordings of all genres that pick up the room resonances, the faithful reproduction of which helps transport the listener to the venue. So, if you listen to some types of jazz, much classical music, solo piano, other music with similar instruments, or synthesizer music then you may want a sub (or true full-range speakers like the Heritage Jubilee) that can reproduce frequencies in the deep bass octaves. Don't laugh, there is even infrasound from instruments like clarinets. When the mechanical tone valves open or close, it can get below 20 Hz and this is quite subtly audible, for example, when a clarinet plays in a church. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the real Duke Spinner Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 On 8/9/2023 at 9:07 AM, Islander said: That odd gap in the text below seems to be stuck there, so try to ignore it. I had a sub that was rated down to 23 Hz, and enjoyed it for many years. In 2020, I replaced it with a sub from the same company (Paradigm) , and some of the specs were similar: sealed housing, front-firing direct-firing 10" cone driver, although the new sub's driver is nearly flat, not cone-shaped. The first sub had a 400 watt amplifier, while the new one has an 850 watt amp, both RMS, of course. The new one is rated down to 18 Hz, and the difference is day and night. Yes, the new one is from a higher line of the same company, so the parts are better and it has more advanced engineering, but the general "It's a front-firing 10" sub in a sealed box" similarities would suggest just an incremental difference, but not so. The new subs (I added a second one a few months later, as I had planned) do more than produce another fraction of an octave of music. Now you can get some sense of the performance space, or just a more spacious sensation. Interestingly, although the subs help the speakers produce a more lifelike sound, sometimes it seems like more bass pressure than I need. It's a bit like having a live band playing on the other side of the wall when you'd like to get to sleep. It's easy to turn off the subs by a menu on the AVR/preamp, so I often do that when I'm listening late at night, like right now, at 4 am. That has given me a new respect for the La Scala bass. Interesting observation..thanks for posting. 🙂 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted August 12, 2023 Moderators Share Posted August 12, 2023 On 8/10/2023 at 10:33 AM, KT88 said: Don't laugh, there is even infrasound from instruments like clarinets. When the mechanical tone valves open or close, it can get below 20 Hz and this is quite subtly audible, for example, when a clarinet plays in a church. There is something down there, even with average music there can be sounds in the sub range. Infrasound or even not that deep can be heard trying a sub off and on, what it is I don't know but it's there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted August 12, 2023 Moderators Share Posted August 12, 2023 Almost forgot, what I love most about the new Heritage subs it it's a horn, even better a vented horn. I am half deaf but can easily hear the difference with a horn sub compared to a direct radiator, even more so with full horn speakers. It seems to be a perfect fit to blend together and also increases efficiency which is rally needed with most Heritage. Happy to see real Heritage subs and being a vented horn is great, people have been asking for a Heritage sub as long as I have been reading here and these will be a good example of Heritage. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flevoman Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 1 hour ago, dtel said: Almost forgot, what I love most about the new Heritage subs it it's a horn, even better a vented horn. I am half deaf but can easily hear the difference with a horn sub compared to a direct radiator, even more so with full horn speakers. It seems to be a perfect fit to blend together and also increases efficiency which is rally needed with most Heritage. Happy to see real Heritage subs and being a vented horn is great, people have been asking for a Heritage sub as long as I have been reading here and You are talking about the promedia 2.1 Heritage subwoofer, correct? This is the only I can find when I use Google. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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