Subs for La Scala's?

[Islander]

On 8/7/2023 at 5:23 AM, KT88 said:

Just a thought, if quite recently Roy/Klipsch launched a very thoughtful KJH that reaches 18 Hz, then I would test or make use of the same principles to achieve real and high quality bass down to 28 Hz (sufficient for most of music) with a smaller cabinet which fits a LaScala system.

 

That odd gap in the text below seems to be stuck there, so try to ignore it.

 

I had a sub that was rated down to 23 Hz, and enjoyed it for many years.  In 2020, I replaced it with a sub from the same company (Paradigm)                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        , and some of the specs were similar:  sealed housing, front-firing direct-firing 10" cone driver, although the new sub's driver is nearly flat, not cone-shaped.  The first sub had a 400 watt amplifier, while the new one has an 850 watt amp, both RMS, of course.  The new one is rated down to 18 Hz, and the difference is day and night.  Yes, the new one is from a higher line of the same company, so the parts are better and it has more advanced engineering, but the general "It's a front-firing 10" sub in a sealed box" similarities would suggest just an incremental difference, but not so.

 

The new subs (I added a second one a few months later, as I had planned) do more than produce another fraction of an octave of music.  Now you can get some sense of the performance space, or just a more spacious sensation.  Interestingly, although the subs help the speakers produce a more lifelike sound, sometimes it seems like more bass pressure than I need.  It's a bit like having a live band playing on the other side of the wall when you'd like to get to sleep.  It's easy to turn off the subs by a menu on the AVR/preamp, so I often do that when I'm listening late at night, like right now, at 4 am.  That has given me a new respect for the La Scala bass.

[Shakeydeal]

Lascala bass doesn't go very deep, but it is very powerful. I can understand why @michaelwjones opted not to have subs when he owned them. I still prefer the sound with subs, but there's plenty of bass for rock music and acoustic jazz bass w/o them.

 

 

[henry4841]

15 minutes ago, Shakeydeal said:

Lascala bass doesn't go very deep, but it is very powerful. I can understand why @michaelwjones opted not to have subs when he owned them. I still prefer the sound with subs, but there's plenty of bass for rock music and acoustic jazz bass w/o them.

 

 

Well said. I own a decent sub but for the last few months I have not turned it on with my LaScala's. Listened that way for 30 years and never thought I was missing much. 

[OO1]

  the greatest news is the   klipsch Vented horn subs will be part of the klipsch Heritage series Made in Hope Arkansas USA  

[the real Duke Spinner]

6 hours ago, Islander said:

 

That odd gap in the text below seems to be stuck there, so try to ignore it.

 

I had a sub that was rated down to 23 Hz, and enjoyed it for many years.  In 2020, I replaced it with a sub from the same company (Paradigm)                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        , and some of the specs were similar:  sealed housing, front-firing direct-firing 10" cone driver, although the new sub's driver is nearly flat, not cone-shaped.  The first sub had a 400 watt amplifier, while the new one has an 850 watt amp, both RMS, of course.  The new one is rated down to 18 Hz, and the difference is day and night.  Yes, the new one is from a higher line of the same company, so the parts are better and it has more advanced engineering, but the general "It's a front-firing 10" sub in a sealed box" similarities would suggest just an incremental difference, but not so.

 

The new subs (I added a second one a few months later, as I had planned) do more than produce another fraction of an octave of music.  Now you can get some sense of the performance space, or just a more spacious sensation.  Interestingly, although the subs help the speakers produce a more lifelike sound, sometimes it seems like more bass pressure than I need.  It's a bit like having a live band playing on the other side of the wall when you'd like to get to sleep.  It's easy to turn off the subs by a menu on the AVR/preamp, so I often do that when I'm listening late at night, like right now, at 4 am.  That has given me a new respect for the La Scala bass.

You realize a Bass Guitar only hits down to 40 hz ??

What you listening to ??

Turntable rumble ??

 

[MMurg]

29 minutes ago, the real Duke Spinner said:

You realize a Bass Guitar only hits down to 40 hz ??

What you listening to ??

Turntable rumble ??

 

 

Several instruments besides the obvious pipe organ or synthesizer can produce fundamentals in the region of deep bass around the first two octaves (center frequencies of 16 & 32 Hz): piano, bass (not bass guitar but string bass for orchestra/jazz), tuba, harp, contrabassoon, and others.  There can also be very low bass in good recordings of all genres that pick up the room resonances, the faithful reproduction of which helps transport the listener to the venue.  So, if you listen to some types of jazz, much classical music, solo piano, other music with similar instruments, or synthesizer music then you may want a sub (or true full-range speakers like the Heritage Jubilee) that can reproduce frequencies in the deep bass octaves.

[the real Duke Spinner]

I had a Cerwin Vega sub at one time But I found I preferred female subs. 😀😀😀

[Islander]

On 8/9/2023 at 1:20 PM, MMurg said:

 

Several instruments besides the obvious pipe organ or synthesizer can produce fundamentals in the region of deep bass around the first two octaves (center frequencies of 16 & 32 Hz): piano, bass (not bass guitar but string bass for orchestra/jazz), tuba, harp, contrabassoon, and others.  There can also be very low bass in good recordings of all genres that pick up the room resonances, the faithful reproduction of which helps transport the listener to the venue.  So, if you listen to some types of jazz, much classical music, solo piano, other music with similar instruments, or synthesizer music then you may want a sub (or true full-range speakers like the Heritage Jubilee) that can reproduce frequencies in the deep bass octaves.

 

Exactly!  Very well said.  And some snobby hi-fi magazine writers who initially rejected subwoofers as only needed for movie explosions and the like were surprised to find that they had beneficial effects all the way into the midrange, in similar fashion to how super tweeters can also produce beneficial effects all the way down to the upper midrange.

 

BTW, Duke, the lowest note on a 5-string bass guitar is 32 HZ, and some metal and hard rock bassists even have 6- or 7-string bass guitars.  Then there's the Chapman Stick, which can go pretty low, too.

 

Finally, nothing performs well at the very edge of its abilities, so to listen to musical notes at, say 40 Hz, a speaker that's rated down to 40 Hz won't do the good job that you'll get from a speaker that goes down to 32 Hz, or even lower.  Just like horn-loaded speakers sound so good because their drivers are barely moving, thus staying within their linear range, a speaker that's not near the edge of the envelope, so to speak, is more likely to be within its linear range, thus producing much less distortion.

 

One last thing:  I really envy those Heritage Jubilees.  A true full-range speaker!  Wonderful!

[Islander]

13 minutes ago, the real Duke Spinner said:

I had a Cerwin Vega sub at one time But I found I preferred female subs. 😀😀😀

 

Wow!  I didn't think that this would be the place that you tell us you're a Dom, lol!

[babadono]

I heard a drummer play the bass kick drum at 16Hz one time

[babadono]

15 hours ago, Marvel said:

Oh, WOW! I can't come up with anything better...

think harder

[babadono]

15 hours ago, Marvel said:

Oh, WOW! I can't come up with anything better...

But will you attend? Might be a good occasion to finally meet you, Bruce

[Marvel]

5 minutes ago, babadono said:

But will you attend? Might be a good occasion to finally meet you, Bruce

Would love to attend, but no... budget and time is pretty scarce.

[henry4841]

Subs have entertainment value when paired with speakers. They do add something to the mix even if not used all the time. Anyone that has been to a live concert understands the music is bass heavy. Talking electronic music concert. Not something you want in a home environment all the time though unless you are a bass fanatic and have good neighbors.   

[Shakeydeal]

Quote

unless you are a bass fanatic and have good neighbors.   

 

Kinda hard to enjoy horn speakers the way they were meant to be enjoyed and live in an apartment or condo.

 

[KT88]

19 hours ago, MMurg said:

 

Several instruments besides the obvious pipe organ or synthesizer can produce fundamentals in the region of deep bass around the first two octaves (center frequencies of 16 & 32 Hz): piano, bass (not bass guitar but string bass for orchestra/jazz), tuba, harp, contrabassoon, and others.  There can also be very low bass in good recordings of all genres that pick up the room resonances, the faithful reproduction of which helps transport the listener to the venue.  So, if you listen to some types of jazz, much classical music, solo piano, other music with similar instruments, or synthesizer music then you may want a sub (or true full-range speakers like the Heritage Jubilee) that can reproduce frequencies in the deep bass octaves.

Don't laugh, there is even infrasound from instruments like clarinets. When the mechanical tone valves open or close, it can get below 20 Hz and this is quite subtly audible, for example, when a clarinet plays in a church.

[the real Duke Spinner]

On 8/9/2023 at 9:07 AM, Islander said:

 

That odd gap in the text below seems to be stuck there, so try to ignore it.

 

I had a sub that was rated down to 23 Hz, and enjoyed it for many years.  In 2020, I replaced it with a sub from the same company (Paradigm)                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        , and some of the specs were similar:  sealed housing, front-firing direct-firing 10" cone driver, although the new sub's driver is nearly flat, not cone-shaped.  The first sub had a 400 watt amplifier, while the new one has an 850 watt amp, both RMS, of course.  The new one is rated down to 18 Hz, and the difference is day and night.  Yes, the new one is from a higher line of the same company, so the parts are better and it has more advanced engineering, but the general "It's a front-firing 10" sub in a sealed box" similarities would suggest just an incremental difference, but not so.

 

The new subs (I added a second one a few months later, as I had planned) do more than produce another fraction of an octave of music.  Now you can get some sense of the performance space, or just a more spacious sensation.  Interestingly, although the subs help the speakers produce a more lifelike sound, sometimes it seems like more bass pressure than I need.  It's a bit like having a live band playing on the other side of the wall when you'd like to get to sleep.  It's easy to turn off the subs by a menu on the AVR/preamp, so I often do that when I'm listening late at night, like right now, at 4 am.  That has given me a new respect for the La Scala bass.

Interesting observation..thanks for posting. 🙂

[dtel]

On 8/10/2023 at 10:33 AM, KT88 said:

Don't laugh, there is even infrasound from instruments like clarinets. When the mechanical tone valves open or close, it can get below 20 Hz and this is quite subtly audible, for example, when a clarinet plays in a church.

There is something down there, even with average music there can be sounds in the sub range. Infrasound or even not that deep can be heard trying a sub off and on, what it is I don't know but it's there. 

[dtel]

Almost forgot, what I love most about the new Heritage subs it it's a horn, even better a vented horn.

I am half deaf but can easily hear the difference with a horn sub compared to a direct radiator, even more so with full horn speakers. It seems to be a perfect fit to blend together and also increases efficiency which is rally needed with most Heritage.

Happy to see real Heritage subs and being a vented horn is great, people have been asking for a Heritage sub as long as I have been reading here and these will be a good example of Heritage.

[Flevoman]

1 hour ago, dtel said:

Almost forgot, what I love most about the new Heritage subs it it's a horn, even better a vented horn.

I am half deaf but can easily hear the difference with a horn sub compared to a direct radiator, even more so with full horn speakers. It seems to be a perfect fit to blend together and also increases efficiency which is rally needed with most Heritage.

Happy to see real Heritage subs and being a vented horn is great, people have been asking for a Heritage sub as long as I have been reading here and 

 

You are talking about the promedia 2.1 Heritage subwoofer, correct? 

This is the only I can find when I use Google.