avguytx Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 3 minutes ago, Marvel said: I can only imagine what Dennis would be saying... tomorrow is the anniversary of his passing. He'd be amazed that certain people are allowed to continue to post their drivel, pictures, videos, etc. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richieb Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 This is the age of catering to and protecting those whose lives center around stirring the pot, spewing useless misinformation all while using the interweb as their indisputable source. No different here. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invidiosulus Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 Plane wave tube measurements tend to overemphasize the low mid response of the driver and would seem to indicate the response rolling off sooner than it would in an actual horn. Collapsing polars with a rise in frequency is needed to keep the on axis response flat without EQ. Constant Directivity horns will either have a rolled off upper response(on and off axis) or you implement EQ to boost the upper frequencies to maintain a flat response. i still have a pair of K-400 horns sitting around here somewhere. once the weather gets nice I plan on getting some on and off axis measurements with the K-55-V just to satisfy my curiousity. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 Good post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OO1 Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 PWK tested the K-55V with klipsch's various horns and so did the Engineering Team , this " plane wave tube measurements " based on Atlas Sound's testing methods has nothing to do with Klipsch unless one believes in fairy tales 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woofers and Tweeters Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 A Yamaha A-S801 and a properly applied vpi db5 will fix the problem. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 1 hour ago, OO1 said: PWK tested the K-55V with klipsch's various horns and so did the Engineering Team , this " plane wave tube measurements " based on Atlas Sound's testing methods has nothing to do with Klipsch unless one believes in fairy tales There is a very long Plane Wave Tube mounted above the chamber in Hope (or was it Indy). One can presume that PK probably used it at least once or twice. 🙂 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill W. Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 6 hours ago, Deang said: There is a very long Plane Wave Tube mounted above the chamber in Hope (or was it Indy). One can presume that PK probably used it at least once or twice. 🙂 Dean, I have seen the one in the engineering lab in Hope and yes, they use it. How else could they know how a horn itself measures without also knowing the driver’s plane-wave raw response? (driver+horn) - driver = horn 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 We have/had a small speaker manufacturer in Chattanooga, Digital Phase. After I adjusted one of my HIs to run the squawker and tweeter 3 dB lower, I took it and another one to their lab and they curved both. Both had K-55-Vs and K-77-Ms. The adjusted one is my center channel and the other one is a rear. Their curves are virtually on top of each other, even though the adjusted one (nearly a Type HIE) sounds obviously different than it did. In some areas it is a dB or 2 quieter, but never -3. I was very surprised at the apparent variation in driver output. We have all heard that Klipsch hand selected drivers for some speakers, surely for Klipschorns. Perhaps this is why. If I can find the graphs, I'll amend this post. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 On 1/29/2024 at 3:30 PM, Deang said: There is a very long Plane Wave Tube mounted above the chamber in Hope (or was it Indy). One can presume that PK probably used it at least once or twice. 🙂 The one in Hope is on the wall left of the chamber. 😃 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vman Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 On 1/29/2024 at 2:21 PM, OO1 said: PWK tested the K-55V with klipsch's various horns and so did the Engineering Team , this " plane wave tube measurements " based on Atlas Sound's testing methods has nothing to do with Klipsch unless one believes in fairy tales Google search of "Plain wave tube klipsch lab" takes you to this thread. There are pics of the devices in both labs and some good reading on how/why they're utilized. Like Disney, Fairy Tales can come true at Klipsch too... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mboxler Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 On 1/29/2024 at 9:36 AM, Invidiosulus said: i still have a pair of K-400 horns sitting around here somewhere. Once the weather gets nice I plan on getting some on and off axis measurements with the K-55-V just to satisfy my curiosity. As is usually the case, the truth tends to be somewhere in the middle. To satisfy my curiosity, I ordered a pair of Altas PD-5VH's. Below are plots of a new PD-5VH (Blue) and an old K55V push pin (Orange). Both measurements start at 300hz on a K-400 horn with no filter. I'll let you decide the frequency responses of each driver. Again, the Altas driver is brand new. I don't know if the FR will change over time. Mike 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 One hits 6kHz, the other one doesn’t. I’m in distress. Could someone DoorDash a pizza for me? 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JEM Performance Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 Dean, you owe me a pizza. I've been telling you about these drivers for some time now and I didn't need a graph to verify what my ears were telling me. LOL The graph should also dispel the rumor that the old K-55V phenolic diaphragms get hard with age causing then not play to specification and need to be replaced. I think the old K-55V did quite well against the brand new driver. Thanks Mike for doing the measuring. Hopefully it puts this topic to rest. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundbound Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 On 2/1/2024 at 5:24 PM, Deang said: One hits 6kHz, the other one doesn’t. I’m in distress. Could someone DoorDash a pizza for me? Yes, the old K55V push pin hits 6kHz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 On 2/1/2024 at 9:38 PM, JEM Performance said: I've been telling you about these drivers for some time now and I didn't need a graph to verify what my ears were telling me. I’ve been thinking about this statement for a few days and how to respond to it. I appreciate opinions from people about what they hear, but since everyone hears differently, opinions are largely subjective. I didn’t think you were lying to me, but I now tend to take everything with the proverbial grain of salt. I have issues with measurements too. Not everyone measures the same and they are usually done in listening areas. How much is the speaker and how much is the room? Microphone placement also varies, and most are not very forthcoming about their test set ups. I also take issue with the fact that Klipsch isn’t very forthcoming with data. We are all left to scramble, trying to figure out the right way to do a thing with very little input from the professionals who should be providing guidance. It’s like being on a treasure hunt, and the captain has made off with the map. I think it’s sad that someone like you has to track down somebody from Atlas engineering to get an answer about why the new driver is different. By the way, have you put a new diaphragm in an old driver and curved it? I’ve gone over the Klipsch update sheets you provided me several times. I have very little confidence in what I’m reading. It doesn’t add up. I have found a satisfactory answer, but you won’t like it. Yeah, I’m cranky. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjptkd Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 On 2/1/2024 at 6:38 PM, JEM Performance said: The graph should also dispel the rumor that the old K-55V phenolic diaphragms get hard with age causing then not play to specification and need to be replaced. I'm sure you're aware of the A55-g driver that when tested against an old k-55v it measured better but rumor has it when the diaphragm was replaced in the old k-55v it measured roughly the same as the new aftermarket replacement. @Deang should remember that as an early promoter of the back then new driver option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 I don’t remember that measurement but I do remember my personal experience. After changing out the diaphragms in my two port phase plug K-55-V’s, I had a hard time pinning down if I was really hearing a difference or just thought I was hearing a difference. Speaking of the A-55-G, if you have version one, someone should have told you by now that the diaphragms for version two will not work in it (and I presume vice versa). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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