Alas.. Another pitbull attack.

[DizRotus]

----------------

On <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />

5/8/2005

11:11:55 AM Parrot wrote: <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

You're certainly right that criminals don't think *they're* going to get caught.

----------------

My experience with the criminal justice system in Michigan confirmed the foregoing.

Defendants were eager to plead guilty to serious felonies with potential sentences up to and including life in prison, to avoid the certainty of two years in prison if convicted of using a firearm in the course of committing a felony.

Criminals do not think, Hmm 10 years, I could deal with that as opposed to Man 40 years thats way too risky.

Criminals are not that logical or forward thinking.

The swift certainty of two years, or even 6 weeks, of incarceration has a far greater impact than the mere possibility of decades of imprisonment.

The knee jerk response of politicians to impose harsher theoretical penalties, instead of swift and certain real penalties does not deter crime.

What would have a greater impact on a teenager, the threat of being grounded for life or the certainty that the car was absolutely unavailable for a month?

[oneleggedbob]

heres a picture of my pitbull..

[dragonfyr]

----------------

On 5/8/2005 11:56:52 AM oneleggedbob wrote:

heres a picture of my pitbull..

----------------

Careful! He's ready to pounce!!!!

[Parrot]

One of the most talented dogs I've ever seen is this guy:

http://www.msnfound.com/payoff.aspx?clip=roller_dog_p&owner=karen&tr=i1

I have seen other movie clips of him too.

http://www.skateboardingbulldog.com/picsandmovies.htm

[scott0527]

I hate it when somebody's dog comes over and drops it's slobbered up tennis ball in my lap.

[m00n]

----------------

On 5/8/2005 12:56:00 PM scott0527 wrote:

I hate it when somebody's dog comes over and drops it's slobbered up tennis ball in my lap.

----------------

My best friend had a Shar pei, nastiest damn thing I'd ever seen. Not only did he have drool faucets constantly flowing, but he farted all the time and would just run you out of the room. nast Nasty NASTY damn thing. Great dog, but foul.

[Mighty Favog]

----------------

On 5/8/2005 11:56:52 AM oneleggedbob wrote:

heres a picture of my pitbull..

----------------

Sort of a Pit-Yorkie.

We had a 162lb. Great Dane (Hans) who was very gentle with people he knew. The only time he "said" anything was just to alarm us to their presents. He passed away 7 years ago at the ancient age of 11.

Talk about a drool monster!!!

I remember reading a story about Jessie Ventura trying to get two dignitaries to work out some sort of deal between their two countries for somthinerother. Anyway, the negotiations were getting a little long in the tooth so he locked both men in the same room with Jessie's per bulldog. This dog was the king of constantly passing very putrid gas and the two men weren't allowed out of the room until they had a deal signed.

[toddvj]

----------------

On 5/7/2005 9:40:26 PM m00n wrote:

I hear ya. I hate those dogs. If I seen one walking down the street and I knew I could get away with it, I think my jeep would accidently run it over.

----------------

Dude, don't you mean if I SAW one?

[Blackmesa]

I want a 1000lb liger

yes i said "liger"

[Frzninvt]

Don't bring one of those dogs around me or my family or I will show you what a .444 Marlin is capable of!

[doudou]

----------------

On 5/7/2005 9:40:26 PM m00n wrote:

----------------

On 5/7/2005 9:31:18 PM Speedball wrote:

Darn...I was willing to take a bite so I could fillet those dogs on the spot.

----------------

I hear ya. I hate those dogs. If I seen one walking down the street and I knew I could get away with it, I think my jeep would accidently run it over.

----------------

here in france it s forbiden to have a pittbull or any other attack dog, so it s more simple.(only few people can have one with a special authorisation and if there is a problem ,the authorisation is removed and the dog is killed).

firts, you know it s a dog "created" to fight that why it is so powerfull with muscles everywhere.so when a pitbull bites it s always serious.

then,a half of people who have a such dog don t really know what it can do think it a dog like the other, and the other half know exactly what it is and teach it how to fight.

i think that s why there are accidents so much accidents with these dogs, but its not the animal s fault.

[InFlux]

----------------

On 5/7/2005 9:17:09 PM m00n wrote:

http://www.koin.com/news.asp?ID=2464

I hate these dogs, I really do. And don't even try to tell me that it's the owners fault. I don't want to hear it. Nor do I want to hear about how other dogs bite.

----------------

Getting back to mOOn's point, I disagree, sort of... It may not be the owner's fault, but it is the owner's responsibility.

My neighbors's pitbull took off after my wife (pregnant at the time) and me one night a year ago. Teeth shwoing, spit flying, hair rasied...

The dog (it used to be a cute puppy) was not chained or fenced. Had the dog started biting, I shudder to consider the consequence. Taking on ownership of one of these animals - considering their historical disposition towards agressiveness - must come with some acountability.

Now my wife freaks out when the neighbors dog is out (rightfully so)- what am I supposed to do when my kids want to run around in the yard???

This is one of several reasons that I am considering moving! Yes, my desire to have "free-range" Klipsch's is on that list somewhere, too.

Interesting post mOOn.

[dragonfyr]

I understand and agree with the concerns. But I disagree with so many that would simply ban this or ban that. Gee, why stop with pit bulls. Ban tigers, wolves, mountain lions, skunks, fire ants, bees, deer, dust mites, sharks, sea urchins, poison ivy, dandelions, mosquitos, rap music(now THERE is an oxymoron!), Liberals and the religious right (just right wing liberals - as both groups seek to limit OTHERS' freedom as they social engineer), STDs, warm beer, bad weather. Ban murder and lying and theft and assault and ... Oh, we already have haven't we! It's been amazingly effective! Gee, life is so simple!

Just a couple of practical questions....

Instead of moving being the first option, are there not 'lease' laws concerning the free roaming of the animals? I think just about every state has laws requiring control of a loose dog. And in the rare event that there is not, would it not make more sense to lobby for such laws rather then to move?

And if those statues are on the books, why not demand their reasonable enforcement?

If the owners of that dog, or any other, are irresponsible enough, both in the disregard for the safety of the dog as well as for others, it seems reasonable to responsibly demand that they assume responsibility for their pet. And while various degrees of vandalism may sound cute, you simply become the other half of the irresponsible coin. And that is not a responsible reaction either.

And adopting a victim mentality waiting for 'someone else' to do something, while simultaneously considering vandalism (are you serious!?), is simply not a mature reaction to a rather simple problem.

I guess I just don't understand why this is such an insurmountable issue.

Talk to the owner. If they are responsible (which they probably aren't or this would have been common sense!) it may be a simple issue, but if they are not demand that the laws be enforced. and if the laws aren't in place, with the plethora of legal precedent and the multitudes of practical bad experiences that so many seem to have had, change the laws! It shouldn't be hard, as the elected wacko can then stand up and blow their trumpet that they saved humankind.

I have dealt with this issue in the past in my own environment without too much hassle. Yeah, the owners were idiots... So we ended up calling the cops, who were actually pretty understanding and supportive. There is not need to get mad or to argue or to do more then simply to approach the neighbors, not with some morality lecture that puts them on the defensive and simply begs for an argument, but simply to tell them how it is screwing up your life. Its hard for them to debate that!

I am simply curious why it is so difficult for other Adults to do this as well (even though you would think that you should not have to!).

And for all those who are 'surprised' that such a situation can exist, all I can do is shake my head and laugh, as the wildcard variable here isn't a pit bull, but the extremely intelligent(sic!) race which owns the dog.

Things don't have to be so difficult. But I suspect that some simply thrive on drama.

...To paraphrase Mark Twain :"I think that God somewhat over-estimated his abilities when he created man."

Best of luck!

[picky]

Something you'll never hear recited on the evening news about "Man's best friend":

Around 20 people are killed by dogs in the U.S. each year.

.....more than 100,000 are maimed or mutilated

.....more than 5 million are bitten.

.....even more go unreported.

Some "friend".

Trust me, I DO like dogs...but the numbers are kinda scary when you consider nearly 40 percent of all households have at least one dog.

[schwock5]

Mung, is that a Staffy you have?

[dragonfyr]

And to play devil's advocate...

How many are killed injured and disabled (not to mention the physical damage) by cars? Is anyone proposing banning them (well, except for the eco-wackos)? Oh, isn't it amazing what we are prepared to accept!

And how many drown? Let's ban water? And how many huff or drink gasoline. Ban gas! Or how many clap there hands too hard and cause damage? Ban clapping. Or suffer from water poisoning from drinking too much water (yep its real!). Ban water (and save all those poor drowning victims too!) Or cut themselves on glass? Let's ban glass!

And how many are injured, maimed, killed by PEOPLE? I dare say there is no more wantonly destructive element then people! So where are the proposals to ban them!?

And capricious Nature! We can ban lightning and hurricanes and earthquakes, and mudslides and volcanos, and....

It seems that a wonderful game of selective attention is rampant here. And out of context quoting of statistics doesn't address the real problem. And the suggested idea of simply killing people doesn't seem to work either! After all, if that was an effective measure, I dare say that with humankind's miserable record, this should be an EXTREMELY peaceful and well behaved planet! Yeah right!

How about personal responsibility? What a radical concept. But I am sure that it too will fail! After all, we are all waiting for SOMEONE ELSE to do it!

So go out and have fun. And don't get crushed by any KHorns, or we will have to ban them too!

Check out http://www.goodpooch.com/BSL/dogbiteepidemic.htm

and for a more sobering view, check out the links at http://www.murdervictims.com/murder_statistics.htm

Criminal Justice Data and Statistics

[Royster]

----------------

On 5/8/2005 11:08:47 AM dragonfyr wrote:

----------------

On 5/8/2005 11:02:12 AM Parrot wrote:

The problem would be taken care of if a pitbull owner were told that if his dog kills someone, the owner's life is forfeit. But that isn't going to happen. And pitbull owners aren't typically millionaires, so they don't have that much to worry about as far as lawsuits go.

----------------

If only that worked...

That doesn't work now with "If you kill someone you face the death penalty!"

As when committing crimes, the 'bad guy' does not fancy themself being caught! As they are

far

too clever.

But I am amused by the rampant stereotypes of animals, dog owners and with the 'let's break the law in order to enforce it" mentality!

----------------

That is what they (courts) here in Appleton, Wi did. A pit bull attacked and mauled a 7 year old girl on her way home from school. The 22 year old (female) owner had been given 2 warnings for "dog at large" violations in the past 3 years. The dog was destroyed and the owner sentanced to 24 months in state prision system. No home owners or rental insurace policy, no job, guess who gets to pay the hospital bills? And who will compensate this poor child for the trama? Many towns are now enacting bans on these animals for a good reason, they were bread to kill.

Most of the top 10 insurance providers in the USA will no longer issue a home owners or personal umbrella policy if a pit bull, rot, or several other breeds are owned by the applicant. But I am sure that they are just being corporate money hungry left wing thugs. Right? No, there has to be a reason, the risk is too large for these providers.

All this crying BS, about man's inhumanity to man. That is about as a revelent comparision to animal attacks as BOSE is to hifi . I have spent the past 20 years in law enforcement, and can tell you from daily hands on experience that although sometimes the line is thin and almost non existant between humans and animals. Humans have a better reasonability and can understand there actions results. Not so for animals.

If some want to turn these attacks into a political position, that is sad. Speaks volumes to ones core values IMHO.

I would estimate that better than 80% of all dog bites, and attcks that I have been called to were pit bulls. The same owners that have let there dogs (bread to attack)traumitize the neighborhood, for years sometimes, are the loudest complaintants when a fearing neighbor tosses a decon snack to fido.

One shows up in our nieghborhood, the owners will find out real quick what "The lone ranger" must have felt like. The rest of the neighborhood would not tolerate it, I am sure of that.

sad that so many kids have to die and be mauled due to someones need to apper cool.

[m00n]

dragonfyr: What ever! You are being absolutly absurd and you know it.

@ Royster

[dodger]

I'm not going to play Devil's Advocate.

A number of Homeowner Insurance Companies are raising rates if you have certain breeds of dog.

I had a combination Husky/Shepard. Beauty of the Husky, brains and protectiveness of the Shepard. While I owned Him neighbor's found a stray full blooded shepard half frozen, covered with snow. They asked me to take him to the shelter.

Iwas sitting on the kitchen floor and as only dogs can read it - he saw SUCKER on my forehead. Came over put his head on my lap and started whining. Named him Whine-oh My other dog came with me when I served legal papers. I didn't carry my fire-arm. But no one gave grief - they figured it would be two against one.

They were not going to argue with a 98 pound dog - no fat, trained.

When I was a kid almost all the rest had Shepards. Because of allergies, no way. But you didn't hear of the attacks that you do now. It is a shame because my dogs were family. I always boarded them at the Vet's. With each one there were definite physical reasons that they needed to put down. Tumours and resulting paralyzing.

We could not have children so the dogs were family members. But they were on long leads even in the fenced in back yard. I would find a deserted place to let 2 Shepard types run. If the mixed breed did something wrong and I had to raise my voice, he would always give me his paw and I had to shake or he would mope.

Since they knew to protect I walked them using a leather panic leash that if necessary you just hold onto one part and they're free. Never had to.

I've never got another dog. That would not be fair to their memories and my expectations. When alive, I knew they were protective - they would corner you, you went nowhere without a fight. So I felt comfortable when I would go to Crime Prevention Conferences and my wife was home alone.

Dogs should be trained, the owner also and leash laws enforced (that includes cats.) Each bite incident needs to be examined. Anyone that tries a cover-up, or allows that behaviour should be prevented from owning a dog.

If the dog is legitimately protecting, and it's on your property, someone is trespassing.

To change the subject to mention something noted in a couple of posts, INY State if you use a hand gun while in the commission of a felony, that's an automatic one year - no plea bargaining.

I have not read of a case where that has been prosecuted.

[Amy]

m00n,

I think this has come up before... I will again take the unfavorable position by saying outlawing these dogs is ridiculous.

What's next? Firearms (approx 30,000 deaths in the US per year), vehicles (40,000 in traffic accidents), swimming pools and retention ponds (3,000 drowning), blankets and toys in infants cribs (3000 SIDS related), poisonous household items (14,000)....

People who choose to keep dangerous dogs have to be held responsible for keeping those dogs out of public harm. Just like firearms need to be under lock and key, and swimming pools need to be fenced in, until people have common sense enough to not drive under the influence, not talk on their cellphone while driving, not leave their children unattended in hot cars with the windows up, child-proof their kitchen cabinets, on and on.

Where do you draw the line on our freedoms? Freedom from harm, but freedom from making our own choices?

As a former owner of a Rottweiller, I would've trusted her implicity with anyone, but I was responsible enough to not leave her around children. My shepherd/collie mix mutt was far more apt to bite than she was, so do we outlaw mutts, too?

Restrictions must be in place and punishment severe for those who voilate, but the choice still must be ours.