wilbucd Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 Hi Folks, I'm new to the board so excuse my questions if they have already been asked. A 20 minute search didn't find what I was after. I am searching for a pair of Klipschorns to replace my KG4's now that my basement game room is complete. I have been driving 2 sets of KG4's with an Adcom GFA-555 rated at 200wpc. I understand that the Khorns are very efficient and don't need 200w and yes I understand that a high end tube amp is the best way to power the Khorns but that will have to wait for now. The speakers will be 24' apart in a 24'x20' basement on a concrete slab. No HT. This is a 2 ch setup for playing my vinyl collection. Will the GFA-555, used responsibly, be a safe match for the Khorns? Anyone have their Khorns more than 20ft apart and have a problem with staging? I am looking at about 26ft corner to corner and am wondering how much it will affect the music. How old of a Khorn would you recommend staying away from? Do they have problems after a certain age? What should I watch out for? Or if the price is right should I not worry with age since I assume replacement parts are available? By the way, I am in North Alabama so if you have a pair of Khorns within a couple hundred miles you would like to sell let me know. Thanks for your replys in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 A 20 minute search didn't find what I was after Effective searches take 23.284502 minutes [] I'm not familar with your GFA-555 but I'd guess it to be a safe match... You don't always have to turn it up!!! How old to stay away from? I'd venture to say that any pair you get will either work fine as is, or can be made to work fine! If you are looking specifically for used, then my personal suggestion would be to buy the nicest looking cabinets you can find. I'd personally not care too much about blown drivers because they can always be replaced. You looking for used? new? If you get up near Knoxville (actually, Greenback) you are more than welcome to come by my place to hear the Jubilees. Once you hear them, it's possible you might re-evaluate your current gameplan. Good luck with what ever you work out. [Y] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallflower Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 I own an Adcom GFA 555 and can attest that it's a pretty awful combination with Khorns or La Scalas. It's very grainy sounding on the big heritage speakers and sounds more annoying than enjoyable. Also, the protection circuitry on the older Adcom amps is not particularly good. I would steer clear of using that amp with Khorns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenderbender Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 What Coytee Said!! Drivers are inexpensive and there are at least three forum members who replace/upgrade crossovers professionally so if you can find a sweet deal on a used pair that looks good you are set....new is always nice!!! Don't know your amp, while tubes are sweet, there are a lot of folks using SS amps...Heck My cheapest amp I own $200 SS Vintage sansui even sounds great through the klipschorns.... Just be warned....and this is from my own experience, milage will vary, the great sensitivity of the Khorns will really make poorly recorded sources sound that much worse but the upside is tremendous!!!! Good source material will shine........ it's like hearing with a new set of ears.... good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 I heard the Adcom GFA 555 on a pair of B&W's. Pretty harsh and should be avoided on revelaing speakers like Klipsch. Try a QSC PLX 1202 for about $300 on Ebay. Don't be afraid of the 200 wpc, you will never turn it up that loud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestonTom Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 Well, I guess I am in the minority. For a time I used a GFA 555 ii with my K-Horns (I now use it with my Cornwalls) and I thought it sounded fine. If it is a series 2 then there is an advantage in that it might already have bypass capacitors on the big power supply caps (the later versions did). However, this can still be done very cheaply and easily (if you know how to safely discharge a cap & use a soldering gun). It will only cost a few dollars and can be "undone" if you don't like the change in sound. Do a search on the threads over at DIYaudio or AudioAsylum (DJK was frequently the author). The improvement is that the bass becomes a bit more solid and cleaner sounding. Don't be afraid of large amps. In the same price range would be the Carver M1.0 (and not necessarily the other models). It is also readily available on the used market. Good Luck, -Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flason Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 I had the 555 with matching 555 pre amp. It souded a little harsh at higher volumes on my Khorns. Classical Wynton cd's were almost unplayable. Still using an Onkyo 508 Grand Integra with matching pre. A lot smoother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 Anyone have their Khorns more than 20ft apart and have a problem with staging? I am looking at about 26ft corner to corner and am wondering how much it will affect the music. The Khorns should really sing in that room with only a 20 Watt amplifier (trust me on this). Also, you really need a mono center channel, with a LaScala being the best choice. I may have another one available in a few weeks as I get my new setup going in the next few weeks, along with a resistor box. With that much distance, you definitely need the 3rd channel, just like PWK had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdaddy Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 The Khorns should really sing in that room with only a 20 Watt amplifier (trust me on this). Also, you really need a mono center channel, with a LaScala being the best choice. I may have another one available in a few weeks as I get my new setup going in the next few weeks, along with a resistor box. With that much distance, you definitely need the 3rd channel, just like PWK had. A third channel for 2 channel music? Explain please. I'm not doubting you, I'm just trying to learn all that I can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEvan Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 The center speaker is needed to fill the hole in the stereo image on a wide array like is being discussed here. Mine are 20' apart. I can still get a solid stereo image, but the sweet spot seems small at that distance. The center speaker setup I heard moved the musicians toward the center, made them far more palpable, while not collapsing the stereo image. It made the sweet spot very wide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEvan Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 Oh, the 555 is safe, but I agree that it's not the best combo with K-horns. It'll do until you change up. As others have suggested, you can do better for fairly cheap. Year? Any. Any but recent examples will need some upgrading in the crossover. Abused examples may need a bit more (diaphrams, etc). After that, you're pretty much as good as new. A nice sized room like yours will come alive with Khorns. I don't think you quite realize how great it will be. What is your listening preference? Music style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 A third channel for 2 channel music? Explain please. I'm not doubting you, I'm just trying to learn all that I can. I learned this from reading the "Klipsch Audio Papers" which I purchased for a nominal sum back in the 70's when I was still a teen. William B. Snow and others (Paul Klipsh's heroes) had tested different combinations and found that 3 channels were best for "wide stage stereo." A symphony orchestra was the reference standard because it was the most difficult to reproduce. Aside from using horns, they deternimed that creating a "phantom" derived third channel from 2-channel recordings gave them the same "perspective geometry" and "sound localization accuracy" as 3 discrete channels, which were impractical on the recording side. This is called the 2PH3 method. You marry the right and left channels with a resistor box to create the "mono in the middle" and add another amplifier. Putting a potentiometer to attenuate the volume of the mono-middle channel (-3 to -6 db) relative to the R and L is like a "focus control." Whenever I would move to a new house, I would set mine up using Mediterranean Sundace by Al Dimeola and Paco DiLucia on acoustic guitar. Each guitar has it's own channel and I would adjust the middle volume until the guitars moved closer together about 1/4 of the way in on either side. My 3 channel setup was then perfect for 95% of the recordings out there. PWK would not listen to stereo at home any other way, period. I know because I was at his house in 1985 and heard his setup, which was identical to mine. I did it exactly like he showed in his publications. He only used two microphones for his own purist recordings of symphonic works and they were spectacular in his living room. I think his speakers (2 oiled Walnut Khorns and a Walnut Belle) were about 25 feet apart, with 4x4 foot self standing false corners spaced aboout 3 feet away from his bay window in the living room. The false corners were made with studs and plywood (or drywall) painted..........very solid and heavy........had to build one of those myself in one of my homes. I had that same setup for 30 years, but the room I have now only allows 13.3 feet for my 2-channel, so I don't need the center anymore and have gone 5.1 with the rest of the room. I suggested that they do a 3-channel demo to Jim Hunter at last year's pilrimage. They finally did it this year and everyone who heard the setup was impressed. Most voted it the best sound there. What's old is new again. I gurantee that, with a 24 foot width, and a mono center, you would NEVER go back to just 2 speakers after hearing the difference for yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilbucd Posted July 14, 2008 Author Share Posted July 14, 2008 Ok so now I am questioning if I should give up on the Khorns since having a third speaker in the middle is not an option for me as it would have to sit in the middle of the doorway. Maybe instead of going corner to corner at 24ft with Khorns I should go on either side of the double sliding doors with La Scalas firing straight out. That would put them at 13ft apart and take care of the staging problem. Will the La Scalas sound anywhere close to the Khorns? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenderbender Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 Me thinks you will be needing some MWM bass bins and LaScalas...like Claude J1 to fill that room [][][][][] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 In a big room like that, two Klipschorns in solid corners 26 feet apart will sound better than two LaScalas 13 feet apart. Yes, the very center will be a little on the thin side, but they'll fill the entire room with awesome sound. The Adcom 555 is a nice amp on lower efficiency speakers, but on the Klipschorns you'll hear a fair amount of hash and grain, and the upper registers will inflict a lot of pain at the higher SPLs. The 555 II is much better in that regard, but since it's not what you have ... you can do much better. I second the QSC PLX recommendation. You didn't say how much money you have to put into this venture -- used Klipschorns go from $1200 to $4000! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 I own an Adcom GFA 555 and can attest that it's a pretty awful combination with Khorns or La Scalas. It's very grainy sounding on the big heritage speakers and sounds more annoying than enjoyable. Also, the protection circuitry on the older Adcom amps is not particularly good. I would steer clear of using that amp with Khorns. I still have not found a good price to own one as a back up amp but B&K sounds quite nice in lengthy demos I have heard. They do not give them away used. ADCOM is not a good horn friendly option. I would expect it to be fatigueing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3Fates Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 What a thread! I was not following the board much lately but saw this thread. For the past 2 days I have been using an Adcom GFA 555 II amplifier on my Klipschorns and it sounds fabulous so far but the reason for it is my newly arrived preamp - Art Audio Alana. I had used McIntosh tubes for years on my Klipschorns but will probably much a switch to either solid state or digital amps. There is so much bass there which I thought never existed. Yes, watch out for the volume. I believe the single most important component is the preamp in one's system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybob Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 No affiliation: http://panamacity.craigslist.org/ele/756323180.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.