Can you even hear anything above 16 Khz?

[Marvel]

I can still hear 15k sitting at my PC, but I have a pair of AlesisMonitor Ones as the PC audio system. not sure the db level. The bass wasn't too loud, and it just sorta tapered off once it got above 5k. At 15k it's pretty faint and dropping off. I guess that's not too bad for 59. []

[Guest David H]

Reading this thread made me curious, so I tested my own hearing using a program called sound check on my IPOD with a nice pair of headphones. My right ear is good to 16khz my left is much better, I can still hear sound to 18khz. I am sure the headphones make a huge difference as compared to pc speakers for this type of test.

[JL Sargent]

Since I started this thread I have been really trying to keep my ears protected. Literally no loud noises for me. If in doubt I wear earplugs. I worked on a pair of speaker cabs and used the table saw. I found the ear protection. Told me son, "no screaming and hollaring in the house"

Amazingly the tinnitus has reduced a significant amount. Its not totally gone but its much better overall. On a scale of 1 to 10 I have reached about 7. Right now Im back down to around 2. Its really surprising how much LOUD stuff I do day to day.

Next time I have a flareup I will try the noisy radio. That would probably work for me. When laying in bed if I hear the heaters fan turn on I know its time to fall off to sleep.

[RockOn4Klipsch]

I can hear everything up to 20kHz, haven't tried anything beyond that but I'll give it a crack later today.

I feel sorry for you old guys that can't hear......j/k.

I take alot of pride in my hearing, I love to listen to music and play music. At work (on the trains) I make sure I wear ear plugs for protection as I want to always hear as I do now.

[skonopa]

Have you tried the "white noise cure"? You tune your bedside clock radio (or your bedroom stereo, but it's louder and more fiddly) between stations and leave it on at low to medium-low volume overnight while you sleep. After a few nights, the ringing in your ears may be noticeably lower in volume.

It works for some because, according to one explanation, the ringing is "amp noise" from your brain. The brain attempts to compensate for the hearing loss at the upper frequencies by turning the gain way up at those frequencies, causing the noise. By supplying the brain with some high-frequency noise, it dials the gain back down and the ringing gets quieter.

The improvement is not permanent, but it lasts for up to a week and it's nice to have quiet ears for a while. Then just leave the hissing clock radio on overnight again. You can buy a commercial white noise generator or a "sleep-aid" type unit, but it's free to try the clock radio first to see if it works for you.

For white noise generation, I've been using a CD from Pure White Noise. I use it mainly to drown out the crap that I often hear in this neighborhood at night, especially during the warmer months when I typically have the windows open. You'd be surprised of what kind of crap that gets generated around here, such as the yokels with the loud exhausts or stereos that cut through this neighbor or up on Rt 3. I especially love the "Calming Fan" one, especially since I use to run a fan all the time in an attempt to drown out that background noise, even during the winter (by having to point the fan into the closet to avoid the breeze). This just makes it so much nicer and more convenient. I've basically rigged up a spare system in my bed room using my old Infinity speakers and Yamaha reciever and my old Sharp CD player and that Fan CD was basically the only thing it ever really plays. Been doing that for the past several years. Seems I almost have to have that CD playing before I can go to sleep. I've tried the trick of putting a radio on a "blank" station, when I was in Vegas on a business trip last spring, but there were no blank stations to find there. If you already got a rig setup in your room, these are quite nice and very inexpensive (much cheaper than one of those "dedicated" white noise generators).

As for the hearing, actually impressed how well these Cambridge Soundworks speakers that I have hooked up to this particular PC did. These actually played the 40 hz tone, although it was down. I could also just barely hear the 16 khz tone, but don't know if that is due to the limits of the speakers or my hearing. Just this past fall, while in Atlanta, one of my friends playe done of those 14 khz "ringtones", and it was friggan LOUD to me. And I am nearly 40 years old. Despite the heavy metal that I listen to, I don't crank it up rediculously loud (only did it one time as I got pissed at the neighbors thumping thier rap crap next door, so decided to give them a little dose of Klipsch medicine along with a healthy dose of some serious metal ala Sonata Arctica's (at the time) newest one [6] ), as well as I use a good pair of earplugs when going to shows.

[Jeff Matthews]

Here's a testing website: http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/jw/hearing.html

I am surprised that these little Klipsch 2.1 computer speakers reproduce from 30Hz to 16kHz. I can hear all of them. JUst have to turn up the gain to do so.

IMO, 16kHz is a useless frequency in music. Of course, same applies to anything above that.

[garyrc]

Cask05, JL Sargent, and others:

Has anybody mentioned Lipo-Flavonoid? I''m not sure that is the right spelling, but it is available over the counter at large drug stores. Ask the pharmacist if you don't see it. Some medical people think it reduces tinnitus, and others don't. Sort of like Glucosomine for joints -- no money for good research.

At 67 I can hear 12K, and if right on axis, 16K ... but if I move a millimeter, it's gone. If I turned it up, I might hear it, but I wouldn't want to risk my tweeters, so the loudest I'll go with test tones or test warbles is the level that produces 70 dB with the 1K test tone at 1 Meter.

When I was 17 years old, I could actually hear to 25K with various tweeters such as the JBL 075 which is mightily attenuated there, but still produced.

I no longer hear the very high pitched tone the CTR in the TV puts out, unless I am at just the right angle --- about once a year. Our 23 year daughter hears it whenever it is on. I understand the old CTR's tone was about 17K??

In the 1970s, there used to be a JBL test record (in the "Sessions" series?) that demonstrated a cut off (in music) at 16K (?). We could hear the difference from directly behind a home brew speaker using an EV T35 tweeter (essentially a Klipsch K-77 tweeter as used in a Klipschorn or La Scala). The room was fairly live.

I once (when I had young ears) heard a demonstration of progressive attenuation of high frequencies. The brain does marvelous things (even filling in beats at half the frequency of two slightly different bass tones, one in each ear, through sealing head phones ... see "Binaural Beats in the Brain" in Sci American archives, way back). In the tests I witnessed, with music with lots of high frequency content, there was a tendency for the brain to fill in the top octave (10 to 20K) when it was missing. Yes, we could hear a difference, but it didn't seem to be so much that something seemed missing, as much as just sounding different. Some people (not me) actually preferred the highs cut off at 10K, but I wonder if they actually just welcomed the absence of a bit of HF distortion. In the 80's I compared recording onto (and playing back) ordinary VHS v.s. VHS HI Fi. While the VHS Hi Fi sounded a lot better, especially in the sparkling overtones, people would swear that the VHS had lots of content above its major attenuation point (which I think was 8K).

People do react in other ways to those highs, though. I ran an experiment on "Preferred Sound Pressure Level" with several samples of music. The participants were asked to simply adjust the volume of the music to the level they preferred. They were blind to the independent variable, but I was not, but I was sitting behind them, out of sight, so they couldn't read my body language or face, etc. The other variable was frequency response with the two levels being with or without a 7Hz fairly steep cut off. Do you think they would have turned up the volume in the cutoff condition, because the highs were missing? It turned out that the opposite was true. They tended to turn up the volume when the highs were there. Perhaps, once they heard those stimulating highs, they wanted more! Progressive arousal hunger? The presence of high frequencies produces an increase in arousal in the cerebral cortex, according to Berlyne and others. I had one participant who turned the volume up much more than any of the others. In conducting these experiments, one always includes in the exit interview the following question: "Is there anything you think I should know about you or your reaction(s) to this experiment?" When I asked that guy, he said,"I'm a mixer for Bill Graham."

.

[mike stehr]

Standing on the flightline during all those F-4 takeoffs and flyovers is getting me back!

Ya think......

I worked at Fairchild AFB in the past, and returned last season to do groundskeeping work through a private contractor.

I used to trim grass, and never wore hearing protection. The trimmers aren't that loud. One day I was trimming near the end of flight line, (old bomber alert area) and a couple F15's snuck up and took off. Couldn't hear them taxi up to takeoff......but I should did when they actually took off.

Wore hearing protection ever since. That was way too loud...........I look up and see four jet engines blaring at me....Yikes!

I think I used to trim grass around a F4 at the park they have aircraft sitting in. I know split my head open on the landing gear more than a few times.

I did a google search on F4, they do look familiar. I also searched on B52. The base used to be a SAC base, but now is just a AMC base. It's been a Air Mobility Command prior to 1994.

One of the first hits on a search is the infamous air show B52 crash. This is one the best photos I found yet.

Now, that's a helluva way to fly a B52.

They are real lucky they only wiped out the sub-station out there. They could have wiped out the SERE Academics building, the chow hall, the gym, exihibits lab, etc......it could have been really ugly.

I didn't work out there in 1994, but I do recall applying for a job out at Airway Heights near the base that day. I remember a big black cloud of JP8, and folllowing it back into Spokane. God, I hate the nasty kerosene smell of JP8!

I'm only good up to 12.5kHz as far as hearing. Some good ideas thrown about how to combat tinnitus. My ears ring, but it isn't bothersome, unless I sit in a closet or some dead silent area.

[JL Sargent]

"Lipo-Flavonoid?"

I have not heard of this but will ask about it the next time I'm in the drug store. As for my hearing loss, I really have been trying to us my hearings 16K cutoff freq. to my advantage. Been enjoying horn loaded active 2 way setups. Not too worried about 20Khz anymore.

Yeah, that would be one scary sight to look over and see a B-52 in that precarious position.

[DTLongo]

At age 67 and using a neat little program called Sweepgen and piping the sound card output through my main system, I'm good up to 10K hz on my Klipschorns but there's definite falloff above that. Can still hear 13K hz directly on-axis but faintly. Both ears about the same (unscientific).

But the interesting thing is, perhaps the key to audiophile enjoyment is not how high one can hear but how sensitively in terms of discrimination. For example, I sure can hear differences in articulation and precision between Klipschorns, say on capturing and bringing out symphonic inner voices of the orchestra like winds, and other speakers. Likewise with MP3's. MP3's sound OK on most normal speakers and certainly in automobiles where background sounds mask any imperfections. But I can sure hear the difference between MP3's and regular CD's of the same material through those Klipschorns. Not dramatic and rather subtle but the difference is certainly there.

[garyrc]

Tom ... DTLongo

Since you have both Khorns and a Belle in a front array, as do I, how would you describe the subjective difference(s) in their sound, excluding the bass?

I will respond as soon as I hear from you, so we can compare notes. For now, suffice it to say that mine measure one way and sound another!

[seti]

I'm good up to about 18.5khz. Mark I hear the same thing in the TV it drives me nuts.I have another tv that makes very high pitched noises. They drive me crazy but my girlfriend can't hear any of it.

[JohnA]

I can't hear a thing above 14k. Too many loud bikes, planes, tractors, guns, and cars (one of my Mustangs was 104 dB at 75 mph).

[DTLongo]

"Since you have both Khorns and a Belle in a front array, as do I, how would you describe the subjective difference(s) in their sound, excluding the bass?"

To my unscientific ear, excluding the bass they sound virtually identical. As a practical matter, though, I run the center-channel Belle a couple of decibels down, so the Khorns carry the main load while the Belle anchors the center nicely. With the Khorns alone the center image shifts as you move around the room as with any two-channel pair of speakers. With the Belle in, the center channel is more firmly anchored (as is the case in a home theater).

On Saturday 10/31 Al K. is coming over to install his ALK extreme-slope crossovers and Trachorns in my two Klipschorns. After that there will be a distinct difference between them and the stock Belle. But since I hold the Belle back those couple of DB or so, I don't expect any negative effect by the mismatch on overall listening pleasure.

[garyrc]

Tom:

My Khorns sound brighter than the Belle, especially at the very top. Paradoxically, the Belle and the Khorns measure just about the same (and the Khorns don't measure identically), with the Belle putting out just a tad more at 16K. The difference in the sound might be due to the Khorn tweeters being positioned just above ear level, and the Belle tweeter is below ear level.

I run my Belle anywhere from 2 dB below the Khorns, to about 6 dB below, depending on the music .... man, is there a difference between recordings!

For movies, I sometimes run the Belle about 2 dB or more below, so the right front and left front will be a little more dominant ..... this turns down the dialog (usually almost all in the center) so that when the volume is turned up for a proper dialog level, the soundtrack music gets a fighting chance to be at the right levels. Particularly with the old 70mm classics of the '50s, '60's & '70s, not so much with new movies, there is an annoying tendency for them to slap a limiter or dynamic range compressor on before transferring the films to disk, perhaps without even listening. Maybe the (probably) young people making the transfers don't realize that these old 35 & 70mm films, with 4 or 6 channel magnetic stereo were often as dynamic as can be! Examples of classics that have the dialog too loud compared to the music are Ben-Hur and Around the World in 80 Days (1956 version), both 70mm, and both took the roof off in the theater, at least in San Francisco! Examples of disks with the non-musical sounds too soft are ET (ET and Drew Barrymore screaming peeled the paint in the theater) and Alien (when the you-know-what jumped out of the you-know-where, shrieking). These last two were also presented in 70mm and 6 channel stereo ... a pattern emerges

[Rhadamanthus]

Frenquency, in hz, of musical instruments. Missing cymbals and bells.

http://www.psbspeakers.com/audio-topics/The-Frequencies-of-Music

[Rhadamanthus]

And this, for the slide rule types.

http://www.cco.caltech.edu/~boyk/spectra/spectra.htm

For some reason, their site is not responding now. I can see it, it just won't work.

[artto]

In my experience, the answer is yes, and no. Some folks, especially younger ones, can certainly hear to 16Khz and higher. I know I can't. 12Khz is the cutoff.

However, I've met a number of people who believe they can hear to 40Khz or higher. What I'm quite sure is happening here, especially when it concerns recorded music, is they are hearing the effects of higher frequencies interacting with lower ones.

One guy I know was using super tweeters on top of his already extended range high-end speakers. He claimed he could hear the higher frequencies because it sounded different when the super tweeters were being used. However, listening to a single 40Khz tone is something else. I'd be willing to bet he was simply hearing the comb filter effects of the higher frequency sounds coming out of the super tweeter and interferring with the regular tweeter.

[consistent]

Use to have exceptional hearing with tinnitus since 8. Now at 53, after a recent hear infection was tested at 15k in left and 18k in right, with a dip of 10db at around 5k in left over right (whatever that means), doctor said still pretty good for and 'old fart' with tinnitus!

Cheers

[99PanozAIV]

Wow. I've downloaded several hearing test apps from the apps Store at Apple. I've been trying them just now on my computer, which has HK Sticks and small sub, but also with my AKG K-340s with Cute Beyond headphone amp. My hearing is just about gone above 8,800 hz. I remember years ago being tested and being able to hear 17,000 hz. I knew I was losing something on the high end, but I had no idea it was that bad.