Rowan611 Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Subs tend to perform better on a floating floor than a concrete slab. Personally, I can't explain the physics behind the reason; however, I can attest that they just don't. I'll let Scrappy explain the difference he saw when he moved his down to the basement. Thanks for having me over last night Scrappy. Really enjoyed meeting you and your wife. Hope you had a good night! Sent from my iPhone, excuse the typos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdog Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Subs will actually usually measure better in a basement, but the tactile sensations transmitted through the suspended floor are not there. To get as much subjective impact on a concrete floor takes a lot of sub power. The result feels very different but even more impressive when you achieve it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar_in_Indy Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 (edited) Subs tend to perform better on a floating floor than a concrete slab. Personally, I can't explain the physics behind the reason; however, I can attest that they just don't. I'll let Scrappy explain the difference he saw when he moved his down to the basement. I hope he does elaborate, as this is a topic of great interest to me. I currently have a SVS 20-39cs and a Velodyne DLS-5000R in my home theater, and while I find tons of user reviews online raving about the deep, clean, powerful bass each of these subs produce, I've honestly been a little underwhelmed. Of course, anybody who visits my home theater is very complementary of the setup, but I've always wanted a lot more. I've long suspected that the problem may be my environment. My home theater is in a huge basement room almost 50' long (nearly 8000 cubic feet) and open to the upstairs. So I think the combination of the huge space and the solid concrete everywhere just soaks up the bass. So I've been watching this thread with great interest since I'm thinking of selling my two subs to finance the build of a couple of these 18-inchers. From what I've been reading here, it sounds like it would be a worthwhile upgrade. Here are a few pics of my basement/home theater for reference: Edited April 8, 2014 by Edgar_in_Indy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan611 Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 I have two 20-39cs's in my 4300 cubic foot basement and they're not enough. I'm looking to build 4 sealed SI 18 subs myself. I would recommend moving the 20-39 off the velodyne. That's not helping the SVS. Really nice looking theatre! I'd consider building some SI subs, if you're looking to pressurize that size room you'll need a lot. I've listened to 8 SI 18s in a 3100 cubic foot room and they sound awesome. I listened to Scrappys last night and his 4 sounded better then the 8...but i think he has a lot of room gain (and I think Scrappy would agree). His room is also smaller, but sounds really, really good. Sent from my iPhone, excuse the typos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 (edited) The Resonace properties in a basement are relatively dead compared to an upstairs location. This mean that the tactile aspect of the sub/s will be less. Concrete walls and floors don't vibrate like wood floors. If a new HT is being put in the basement, certain things can be done that will help with the tactile response. Most basements also have carpet which will absorb sound. This couple with a large room will affect the sub/s performance. In an open concept room, the sub/s see the whole basement. Also, there is minimal room gain to help with the very LF's. Edited January 12, 2014 by derrickdj1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar_in_Indy Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 (edited) I'd consider building some SI subs, if you're looking to pressurize that size room you'll need a lot. Yeah, that's the problem. I'm wondering if I might be better off just installing some tactile transducers on my furniture rather than spending thousands of dollars on an array of subwoofers. Thank you for the compliment on the home theater, BTW. I've pretty much done it all on a shoe-string budget since my wife is not exactly on board. Edited January 12, 2014 by Edgar_in_Indy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 (edited) I also use some big subs in my basement. The subs used in the past in the basement gave chest slam but, no tactile response. The 18 in. subs can move a lot of air wihich helps. If you or I want to increase the pressure effect, We have to buy more subs, put up walls to make the space smaller or use the transducer. Walls are not that difficult to close off some of the space if it meets WAF. Wall may be the cheapest of the three options. Edited January 12, 2014 by derrickdj1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappydue Posted January 13, 2014 Author Share Posted January 13, 2014 ok let me start this off. what did i mean when i said no more magic. as others have stated my concrete done not shake at all. that takes alot away from the experience. if you have never experienced it then you will not miss it. i can also say that i had to turn the gain up by 17 db per sub (on the svs volume anyways) to achieve the same calibration level as upstairs. room only got slight longer but should have made that big of a difference. now i will say after turning that much up my dual ultra struggled with reference volumes on certain movies. other movies were fine but a few were hard on them. that was not ok with me. i dont want you to come over for a demo and me to have to have my grill off watching the woofer to make sure they was no over excursion. also my svs did not make my couch move 13 feet away. not one bit. fast forward to the 18's after calibration with leaving the subs flat as can be (as in level boosting after auddysey) my couch shakes plenty from room pressurization. also i have yet to find a movie that makes my woofers move enough at reference level for me to have to worry about them. your room is huge! i would be looking at a minimum of 4 sealed 18's. maybe even six. 4 up front on one amp and a pair behind the couch on a second amp? my plan is to add a few more soon in the rear to try out near field subs. heard alot of cool things about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar_in_Indy Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 your room is huge! i would be looking at a minimum of 4 sealed 18's. maybe even six. 4 up front on one amp and a pair behind the couch on a second amp? my plan is to add a few more soon in the rear to try out near field subs. heard alot of cool things about that. Thanks for weighing in, your insight is very helpful. Four of the 18's is just not gonna be in the budget, at least not this year most likely. Do you reckon that if I started off with two, it would be a worthwhile improvement over my current setup? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappydue Posted January 13, 2014 Author Share Posted January 13, 2014 Yes I do. Just make sure you buy an amp that could power more. Can build extra later Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 But, everyone has their priority and most don't wanna build subs. I owned two Svs and once I moved them into my basement they lost just about all magic appeal to me. They just did nothin for me anymore. I knew I needed big woofers to move big air. And now i have it. How about big woofers in a big horn to REALLY move big air. (an 18 is the same Sd as tow 12's) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 But, everyone has their priority and most don't wanna build subs. I owned two Svs and once I moved them into my basement they lost just about all magic appeal to me. They just did nothin for me anymore. I knew I needed big woofers to move big air. And now i have it. How about big woofers in a big horn to REALLY move big air. (an 18 is the same Sd as tow 12's) How about this? 2' driver. http://stereointegrity.com/index.php?id=61 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistedcrankcammer Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 (edited) But, everyone has their priority and most don't wanna build subs. I owned two Svs and once I moved them into my basement they lost just about all magic appeal to me. They just did nothin for me anymore. I knew I needed big woofers to move big air. And now i have it. How about big woofers in a big horn to REALLY move big air. (an 18 is the same Sd as tow 12's) Very simple math 3.14 X Radius Squared....... Radius of 12 inches is 6 inches. 6 inches squared is 36.... times that by two is 72. Radius of 18 inches is 9 inches. 9 inches squared is 81. 72 is NOT as big as 81, therefore two twelves have LESS displacement than a single 18. It takes two 12s and a 6inch driver to get the same surface area of an 18. Roger Edited January 13, 2014 by twistedcrankcammer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psg Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Maybe. Ever notice how a 15-inch never really measures 15 inches of moving surface? Goes for any size. You'd need to use real sizes to tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason str Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Maybe. Ever notice how a 15-inch never really measures 15 inches of moving surface? Goes for any size. You'd need to use real sizes to tell. You have to include x-max into the equation too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 I have a cabinet question. The flat pack kit seems to have 3/4" and 1.5" panels with significant bracing. Do these vibrate? If building from scratch, does it make sense to use 1" and 2" MDF? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shodrewken Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 After reading this thread over I'm starting to get the urge to build myself a couple 18". From what I can tell it doesn't seem that difficult to do. The only intimidating part to me would be the wiring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 (edited) After reading this thread over I'm starting to get the urge to build myself a couple 18". From what I can tell it doesn't seem that difficult to do. The only intimidating part to me would be the wiring. The wiring is about the easiest part. We'll walk you through it. Edited January 13, 2014 by CECAA850 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heritage_Head Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Subs tend to perform better on a floating floor than a concrete slab. Personally, I can't explain the physics behind the reason; however, I can attest that they just don't. I'll let Scrappy explain the difference he saw when he moved his down to the basement. I hope he does elaborate, as this is a topic of great interest to me. I currently have a SVS 20-39cs and a Velodyne DLS-5000R in my home theater, and while I find tons of user reviews online raving about the deep, clean, powerful bass each of these subs produce, I've honestly been a little underwhelmed. Of course, anybody who visits my home theater is very complementary of the setup, but I've always wanted a lot more. I've long suspected that the problem may be my environment. My home theater is in a huge basement room almost 50' long (nearly 8000 cubic feet) and open to the upstairs. So I think the combination of the huge space and the solid concrete everywhere just soaks up the bass. So I've been watching this thread with great interest since I'm thinking of selling my two subs to finance the build of a couple of these 18-inchers. From what I've been reading here, it sounds like it would be a worthwhile upgrade. Here are a few pics of my basement/home theater for reference: Very nice room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shodrewken Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 After reading this thread over I'm starting to get the urge to build myself a couple 18". From what I can tell it doesn't seem that difficult to do. The only intimidating part to me would be the wiring. The wiring is about the easiest part. We'll walk you through it. Good to know, I'll definitely take you guys up on your knowledge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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