Heritage_Head Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 How does disagreeing about an eq turn into this s..t show? Why even come here if everyone is so dumb too you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddeus Smith Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Uh, just so it's clear.. This thread was all about Steven taking a few minutes to gloat about his new crossovers, with pics no less, as he absolutely should after investing in such an upgrade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fjd Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Uh, just so it's clear.. This thread was all about Steven taking a few minutes to gloat about his new crossovers, with pics no less, as he absolutely should after investing in such an upgrade. I actually had to check the thread date to make sure it wasn't some anonymous 'bump' from 2003..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 I actually had to check the thread date to make sure it wasn't some anonymous 'bump' from 2003..... Perceptive. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Richard Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 “I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them.” Spoken by John Wayne in The Shootist. A truly great movie and, unfortunately, The Duke's last. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7QQD5xoxfw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 OK.....!!! I'm going to try my best to ignore the silly rantings posted today.... I made my point on the 3rd page of this thread of why in my experience a high quality DSP unit with EQ and crossover capabilities can offer improvements to a system well beyond any negatives if used properly. This is based on real world personnel experience over several decades and yes this was after many years (15 easily) of owning a minimalist system with Klipschorns in dedicated and acoustically treated listening rooms. So it's not like I haven't been there and I definitely appreciate and understand that approach to sound reproduction. Less anyone thinks I don't understand op-amps and electrolytics and their potential drawbacks please know that I made my living for over 25 years servicing consumer electronics and have built and modified audio equipment for over 40 years which is where the real fun is... The only reason the DSP units I own stay in my system is because they bring my music reproduction closer to reality than any approach I've used before IMHO. My point is some form of EQ effects whether intentional or unintentional (this includes electrical, mechanical and acoustical forms) is present in practically every part of a reproduction system. EQ effects exist from the Recording Environment, the Recording Engineers Choices, the Recording Storage Medium, Source Components, Pre-amps, Amplifiers, Crossovers (active or passive), Loudspeakers and Listening Rooms. Many forms of EQ can prove very beneficial if applied properly throughout all aspects of a system and a high quality Modern Active EQ when applied properly can improve a system much more in comparison to any negative effects it might bring to the table in my experience and personnel opinion. Bottom line I respect anyone's choice to not use an active EQ unit in their system but I reject the suggestion by you or anyone else that those who choose to use a high quality active EQ in their system is somehow compromising the system versus not using one. Oh and by the way "fixing the problem at the source in the simplest possible way" is sometimes best accomplished by EQing as for examples again in the LP storage medium in combination with it's compensating EQ circuits or proper use of local and/or global negative feedback in an amplifier or in the case of loudspeaker systems the use of electrical EQ compensation (either through an active crossover or passive crossover/balancing networks) for the mechanical and acoustical properties of the components of the system that cause some of the errors of the system. As far as one of the worst offenders of good sound reproduction which is the poor recording standards and practices of that industry our only way to deal with that is to either listen to them warts and all, stop listening to some very good music that's recorded poorly, take some control available to us through high quality and effective tone controls systems as I mentioned before or as I do presently using a very good quality DSP active unit with my tone control simulation program of the Cello Palette. miketn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestonTom Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 ".... OOOOhhhh Burn! He just called you out man. You gonna put up with that? LMAO! If he said that crap to me, I'd be finding that SOB.... ..." Only if you thought that any of this matters. It doesn't! So many of these threads turn out to be infomercials and advertising campaigns. I guess in this case someone is bragging that he re-builds and designs electrical equipment without the advantage of basic electronic measurements. I guess there is a market for that sort of thing. Anyway, good luck on your marketing strategy, I hope it works for you. I just can not figure out why the name calling and insults are required. Is this part of creating a "mystique" for the products? My gosh....where is the infomercials and advertisement? You need to get your head examined dude. You folks shilling all this modern day crap is more of an infomercial and advertisement as anything in this thread. The truth of the matter is you are insecure in your decisions so you get your panties in a tissy if someone disagrees with you. This same insecurity is what leads you folks to the modern day crap you put so much faith in.......you have to have the graphs and test results to confirm what your ears should easily be able to tell you...most likely you blew those out years ago with all those megawatt SS amps coupled to Klipsch Heritage speakers! Thanks god I found glorious sounding tube amplifiers before I got into to Klipsch heritage on this very forum.... Again, I don't see how insulting folks adds to the credibilty of your business. You have no idea about my system, my buying habits, my insecurities, or my hearing. Care to speculate further? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 “I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them.” "I fart in your general direction" Monty Python 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Dave it's like your bragging....."and I'll do so without so much as an SPL meter.".... I guess I can see that. Wasn't my intention. As an audio engineer I cannot tell you how many times I have added this EQ, that filter, or some process over hours trying to improve a piece of less than adequate audio and then simply removed it all finding the cure worse than the symptom. You can't fix crap. It is why I use no mixers or anything other than what MUST be employed when recording. Some of you do great things with various treatments. I salute you. I find it unnecessary as the filters and processors that came with my brain appear to compensate for all but the most egregious room issues if the source material is right. Dave Dave I totally agree you can't fix crap but I wish you could hear how some recordings can be improved with a program simulating the cello palette and often with just a couple of corrections less than +/- 2db and sometimes as small as +/- 0.5db. miketn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 (edited) I have no trouble imagining that there might be active systems with EQ that might sound pretty good but I have a hard time believing they aren't limiting themselves in the end! I have definately heard lousy setups that also didn't happen to have any EQ. Ultimately, if you have to leave all that stuff in place you are putting stuff in the way between you and that great music you are wanting to hear. Use your tools however you want to get your sound the way you want but I think you need to use those tools to discover and fix your problems, then remove the tools from the room. My experiences are that the tools(high quality DSP based EQ in this case) can compliment the system if used properly and actually allow the music to reach it's full emotional potential in my experience. Yes they have the potential to screw it up also if misused but for those that learn how to use them they can bring much enjoyment. miketn Edited August 5, 2014 by mikebse2a3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Dave I totally agree you can't fix crap but I wish you could hear how some recordings can be improved with a program simulating the cello palette and often with just a couple of corrections less than +/- 2db and sometimes as small as +/- 0.5db. miketn Friend, my ears and mind are wide open. Opinions are just that. The ears are the ultimate test. This evening I went through a few more tests of my new Cinema F-20, set by ear in an untreated room many have said is too small for Klipschorns. Granted, most have left with a different opinion. I turned my attention to my own recordings which I, of course, can be said to be a good judge since I was there when they were made. They were accurate. Perhaps the acid test is "Clair de Lune," the piano piece a number here have heard. Sounded like a piano in the room. Actually, sounded like a nice Kawai grand but not like a Steinway. That would be inaccurate. I'd be more than please for anyone to come fix my room and system. But I am a happy man. In all the years I've visited other's systems I had only one experience that was less than satisfying. It was a decade ago and I won't go into it. Some systems were heavily processed, others quit "au natural," and a couple in between. All were fine and not one of them...including the one I was less than happy with...made me want to say "You ignorant ****." Audiophiles have a way finding good sound one way or the other. Dave 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Friend, my ears and mind are wide open miketn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Again, I don't see how insulting folks adds to the credibilty of your business. You have no idea about my system, my buying habits, my insecurities, or my hearing. Care to speculate further? Now who exactly is speculating....what the hell makes you think my business needs added credibility or that posting here would add any? I post here for strictly entertainment purposes .....show where I have mentiooned my business any where on this forum in recent history....please show me and quit speculating about things you know absolutely nothing about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul79 Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 If you can't understand the words to this song, your system needs work. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=video&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB8QtwIwAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DSca3_5w8vdc&ei=yEjgU6SBLcWU8QGC44DQCQ&usg=AFQjCNEvV8BVXfmjmZXX9SlI5oOPAYCMOQ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 I think an active crossover with tons of EQ could turn that song into Beethoven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Has Marion gone active yet? If not, why not? Isn't that what this really is -- an old analog/digital debate? I went back to page 2, and it started with a slam by Craig on those using digital processing to EQ their systems -- it wasn't a criticism aimed at EQ itself so much but the manner in which it's performed. Quiet Hollow showed how he could emulate the dropping of a tap on an autotransformer with processing/software. I pointed out that it doesn't sound the same, and it doesn't. It doesn't even come close to sounding the same, but it should, shouldn't it? I get that the source is digital, but it does appear that the less there is between the player and the drivers, the more vibrant and realistic the sound is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch Employees Chief bonehead Posted August 5, 2014 Klipsch Employees Share Posted August 5, 2014 Imagine what your speakers would sound like if the networks were built with electrolytics. I did this once just to see what it would sound like and it sounded pretty awful. Yet somehow, when you put these things in the signal path of equipment passing low level signals, amazing things happen. I didn't understand the infomercial comment either. Why are vendors penalized and held in contempt? We do what we do because experience has led us down this path -- it's only natural that our opinions follow suit. It has nothing to do with marketing, and everything to do with just wanting to have the same privileges everyone else has, namely, being able to say whatever we want, and being part of the community. Craig and I were members here long before we started our businesses. At any rate, please try to remember that Klipsch has signed off on self-promotion but does not want to see solicitations. Some of you may not like this, but you're just going to have to try and get over it. Please. I agree with Craig, especially having found myself on the end of both more times than I can recount -- there is no difference between a veiled or subtle insult and a direct attack. They both sting about the same. Anyways, to bring a Behringer DCX2496 up to my standards - runs around $1500. This doesn't include the cost of the unit, and of course you need the extra NOS Valves tube amplifiers to go with it. : -) Was Paul Klipsch "civil" when challenged? I think he might have lasted three posts on most forums. This forum reflects his personality in a most perfect way -- let the sparks fly. So you knew paul pretty well huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch Employees Chief bonehead Posted August 5, 2014 Klipsch Employees Share Posted August 5, 2014 Too many people more interested in selling their crap then being objective. And it is amazing how many people fall for it!! And these are the "experts". Amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 "There are two kinds of experts: academic experts and practical experts. One is no better than the other, but they are very different, and each offers very different value." -- Simon Sinek Anyways, typical straw-man nonsense -- no one here has claimed to be an "expert", and most of my sales come from people who don't even come here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heritage_Head Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Its like debating with burger king on if the big mac is better than the whopper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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