My new DeanG networks…

[Schu]

me thinks he hath... but he doesn't want to bum out the rest of us Jupiter nuts

 

all I know is, like your son D, Originally my cornwalls had a very narrow spot in the db range where they sounded what I thought was good... out side of that range it DID hurt my ears to the point I began thinking, "this is torture and what's the point here... keep these things or sell them and try and improve my listening experience".

 

Post upgrade, life is for once full of pure joy and I find myself reinvigorated with the passion for the "listening experience".

Edited August 24, 2014 by Schu

[dtel]

I never would have thought that I would see the day where all the techno-geeks would collectively stick their heads in the sand.

 

It's probably more that change is slow, it was only a few years ago that there was change in the general consensus that really old caps needed to be replaced, it's a common recommendation now. Enough people heard the difference and word spread.

[mike stehr]

Have you compared a cheapo battery biased build to a jupiter build yet?

Sounds better than a stock Cornwall B2 network to my ears...

[Thaddeus Smith]

 

Have you compared a cheapo battery biased build to a jupiter build yet?

Sounds better than a stock Cornwall B2 network to my ears...

 

 

well duh, no arguments there. but that wasn't the question

[mike stehr]

Have you compared a cheapo battery biased build to a jupiter build yet?

Sounds better than a stock Cornwall B2 network to my ears...

 

well duh, no arguments there. but that wasn't the question

May as well pony up for the Jupiter caps.

[seti]

I was at a friends house listening to La Scala's. After listening to them for a while he said he still hadn't put his new crossovers in them..  I said What crossovers? He informed me that he bought some crossovers from a guy on the forum but didn't remember what they were. I made him dig them up and I installed them on the spot. Then realized they were DeanG crossovers. Not sure if the original caps had become resistive or if these were just that much better but we both admitted the sound improved. Now he wants to roll these crossovers into the Khorns as he isn't sure he will keep the La Scala's

 

Edited August 25, 2014 by seti

[Marvel]

I think those are older ones of Deans, but they would still be better than stock...

 

Bruce

[ClaudeJ1]

 

Any word that requires a reference is a problem when talking about the sound of recordings on stereo systems. Accurate and faithful both require a reference, and no such reference is available for recordings. Naturally, we can cover it all by saying we are just using euphemisms and colloquialisms and we don't really mean accurate in a scientific sense. But, if you read these posts as long as I have been doing, you will see that people take this "accuracy" business in a literal way, and often argue it exactly that way.

 

There is certainly a scientific reference for accuracy of reproduction as far as loudspeakers go. If the electrical signal going to the speaker (or DSP in the case of biamped or triamped systems) is the same as the electrical signal coming from a measurement mic placed in front of the speaker, that loudspeaker is accurate. Measurement systems such as SMAART have the ability to freeze those signals at a certain time and then overlay the two traces for comparison. If the frequency response, phase, and impulse traces line up closely, the speaker is accurate.

 

Danley Synergy horns can do this. But the passive networks are complex and weigh 50 lbs.

[ClaudeJ1]

Claude, do you have a PC setup with 4 discrete channels out? If so, I'd be happy to upload this file where you can get it and see what happens.

 

Dave

No, I don't. But maybe in the near future. Still adjusting smaller space after the move and just got HS internet.

[Deang]

I was at a friends house listening to La Scala's. After listening to them for a while he said he still hadn't put his new crossovers in them..  I said What crossovers? He informed me that he bought some crossovers from a guy on the forum but didn't remember what they were. I made him dig them up and I installed them on the spot. Then realized they were DeanG crossovers. Not sure if the original caps had become resistive or if these were just that much better but we both admitted the sound improved. Now he wants to roll these crossovers into the Khorns as he isn't sure he will keep the La Scala's

 

Two Jensen paper in oil caps and a coil.

That was a long time ago. Bob would ship me the Cedar, which I would sand and coat with lacquer before hitting it with .0000 steel wool.

[Max2]

I have a friend that has much better hearing than I have and we partake in a listening session from time to time. I use his ears to help confirm what I "think" I'm hearing.  Anyway, I swapped some of Deans Networks around, from an Economical "Metalized" capped Super X to a higher level Super X  with Foil caps and better inductors. He immediately could confirm what I was hearing which was less distortion, better controlled bass, better instrument separation and totally black pauses in the music content.  Well here is the kicker. I scored some Beyma CP25's off of CL at a too cheap price, so I bought them. I swapped them out without telling my bud and he immediately said after playing a Steely DVDA, what did you do?  Its off man, its brighter and almost a little shrill. Well, I heard it too, but sometimes its hard to swallow a so called upgrade when you get a bad result even if the setup isn't optimal.  Im running the Volti 260 mids with the stock K55's and K77's. These pair extremely well IMO and I think the old K77 gets beat up at times without any real reason.  But when I went to the Beyma tweeter which has to be at least 3db hotter than the K77 it overpowered the mids. It added too much sizzle which made things pretty edgy.  So now, Im either going to have to cut the Beymas back with one of AL's Atten tweeter setups, which I don't want to do, go to a BMS high dollar mid or simply put the old K77's back in.  So many variables involved with what our ears think is good, so many variables involved with making improvements on paper where the Beyma is compared to the old K77. Sometimes the grass isn't greener without everything in perfect order no matter how good your equipment is. 

[muel]

I like the way the Beyma's sound with Al's attenuators better than any other tweeters I've heard.  I back them off just a notch and they have just the right sizzle for me.  There is nothing wrong with the K77 though!  

[Max2]

I noticed Al's Atten's only handle 10-15 watts. What happens when you put 75 or so watts through the whole speaker?

[Deang]

The K-77 isn't a good tweeter by good tweeter standards, but it's a big part of the Klipsch Heritage sound, and mates well with the K-55 in a weird kind of way that's hard to describe. I used to call it a kazoo, but after spending a lot of time with it, it kind of grew on me. The only other tweeter I really like is the Beyma. I haven't heard either of the B&C tweeters that Al is selling - I just kind of like the sound I'm getting right now and don't feel like messing with it.

I've sent two emails today alone dealing with replacement tweeters. If you're going to play with tweeters that aren't marketed as drop in replacements, then some quality attenuators need to be a part of your inventory. Al and me had talked about adding them into the Universal I was building, but I didn't want them in the network because I knew most were either staying with K-77s, using Bob's CT-125, or the APT 200 - and even the B&C DE10 and DE120 are being sold as drop-in replacements. With all of these tweeters coming in at 104/105dB, I just didn't see the point in adding additional cost into an already fairly expensive network. I decided that if anyone wanted to step outside of the box so to speak - they could order them in stand-alone form, which is what Max is going to have to do. Sorry Max! : )

If you can solder, or know someone that can -- you can also build some L-pads using some nice resistors.

Edited August 31, 2014 by DeanG

[Deang]

I noticed Al's Atten's only handle 10-15 watts. What happens when you put 75 or so watts through the whole speaker?

Most K-77s can only handle 2-3 watts. I'm running Type AAs, and I can drive to blistering levels and haven't lost a diaphragm yet - but I am running the Zener diodes. 15 watts is quite a bit for most tweeters. L-pads for tweeters typically use resistors rated at 10 watts. It's enough.

I agree about the Beyma being killer, and we have John Warren to thank for finding it.

[muel]

I admit I haven't had many original thoughts when it comes to audio and rely on experimenting with ideas that others have already tried.  Certainly saved me a lot of time getting some nice sound!

Thank you John Warren (along with many others)!

[Deang]

Have you compared a cheapo battery biased build to a jupiter build yet?

 

I did it with some Type As. Comments/thoughts can be found in technical.

 

https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/151829-replacementupgrade-caps-for-belle-aas

Edited August 31, 2014 by DeanG

[ClaudeJ1]

I haven't heard either of the B&C tweeters that Al is selling - I just kind of like the sound I'm getting right now and don't feel like messing with it.

 

I currently have a pair Bob's CT-125 in a pair of Ported Super Heresys (where I modify an E network to a Cornall used for rear channel in a 6.1 configuration, to get an extra 3 db of output overall. I have used both Fastlane Elliptrac HF tweeters in  in my Super Heresy mods.  I purchased from Al Klappenberger.

 

The using the 120 has rising output to 20Khz. and really hits the highs,  but I doubt that you would like it, Dean, because it's titanium. Although older guys with high freq. hearing loss would prefer it. Those were sold to a Klipschofile who was blow away when he heard my mods.

 

The DE-10 with the Elliptrac is a little easier for the rest of us, and, overall a better VALUE. Currently using only one, since it's in a Super Heresy without the port, and does a great job as a front or rear center channel in a 5 or 6.1 setup, respectively.

[Deang]

The DE-120, as well as the DE-10 use Mylar diaphragms -- they probably sound pretty good. : )

 

The K-69-A wore thin on my nerves after a few months, but I used the RF-7s for years without any issues. So maybe I'm okay with titanium tweeters after all.