Guest Steven1963 Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 (edited) I purchased a set of networks to replace my Khorns orginal (but frankensteinianly modified) crossovers from Dean and I wanted to comment on them here. For those with ADD, one word: AWESOME! You can now move on to the next topic . For those who want a better explanation, read on. Caveat: I am not an audiophile by any stretch of the word. But I would consider myself an above average listener. What uniquely qualifies me to speak with any credibility on this subject is the fact that I had a pair of 1982 Lascalas set up on the very same system that I was running my 1972 Khorns. We all know that the Lascalas and Khorns share both the tweeter and mid drivers. Thus, I had an existing and immediate reference for the old networks, and something to compare the new networks to after I put them in…an available base line, if you will . Also, I am not employed or otherwise affiliated with Dean. I do not profit in any way from anything he sells on this site or anywhere else. I have never met him. These crossovers are the only thing I have ever purchased from him. Basically, the difference was night and day. The midrange was clearer, crisper, and more pronounced but smoother and definitely not barking at me, as is the common complaint with Heritage Klipsch. The highs were also more crisp and clear, and seemed to have a sharper attack. My son was with me and while listening to the Khorns he said he couldn’t tell a difference, so I switched them off and immediately turned on the Lascalas. His eyebrow lifted and his mouth dropped open. The difference of switching from the Khorns back to the Lascalas with their original networks was the most amazing thing ever. We all know that Lascalas sound good in their own right, but after listening to the Khorns with their upgraded networks and then switching back to the Lascalas, well, it was quite literally like listening to a cheap pair of off-the-shelf speakers from BestBuy. They sounded muffled and congested – as if they had a towel hanging in front of them. Imagine that for a moment…Lascalas sounding muddled and flat – how can that be? Really, it was that big of a difference! I’m not talking a slight improvement here, I’m talking a huge improvement – it was literally as if I had purchased a whole new speaker system that performed well beyond what I originally had. The upgraded networks are that good. My advice to anyone who is still running original networks in their Lascalas or Khorns is to immediately purchase a new set of these networks. It is the single most important upgrade you can do for you entire system. No bull. I only had a couple hours on Tuesday to do the comparisons as I sold the Lascalas last night. I had them on CL for $1300 and sold them for $1500 – a bit of a bidding war. I paid $1000 for them 4 months ago and had custom glass cut to protect the tops. So not a bad turn. Anyway, it was enough time for me to realize I made a good move in getting the new networks from Dean. Thanks Dean! EDIT: I forgot to add that the Khorns sound like they are more efficient. I don't know if this is some sort of placebo affect or what. But at my listening position with the volume knob at its typical position I'm registering 105db peaks whereas before I don't remember them being above about 95-98db. Edited July 17, 2014 by Steven1963 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted July 17, 2014 Moderators Share Posted July 17, 2014 Glad your hearing a big difference, I can imagine, just replacing old caps was a shocker to me with the difference, these are even better. Very good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJkizak Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Dean also did mine and I am very pleased with them even though I can't hear above 10 KHZ. JJK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Steve, thanks for the review. Glad you are enjoying the sound of your Khorns. Dean's crossovers always look good, too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eth2 Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 So which crossovers did you get? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Steven1963 Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 The ones you said you were a day late and a dollar short from buying. Lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 The ones you said you were a day late and a dollar short from buying. Lol. As I recall, that was a great deal. Congrats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch Employees Chief bonehead Posted July 18, 2014 Klipsch Employees Share Posted July 18, 2014 I purchased a set of networks to replace my Khorns orginal (but frankensteinianly modified) crossovers from Dean and I wanted to comment on them here. For those with ADD, one word: AWESOME! You can now move on to the next topic . For those who want a better explanation, read on. Caveat: I am not an audiophile by any stretch of the word. But I would consider myself an above average listener. What uniquely qualifies me to speak with any credibility on this subject is the fact that I had a pair of 1982 Lascalas set up on the very same system that I was running my 1972 Khorns. We all know that the Lascalas and Khorns share both the tweeter and mid drivers. Thus, I had an existing and immediate reference for the old networks, and something to compare the new networks to after I put them in…an available base line, if you will . Also, I am not employed or otherwise affiliated with Dean. I do not profit in any way from anything he sells on this site or anywhere else. I have never met him. These crossovers are the only thing I have ever purchased from him. Basically, the difference was night and day. The midrange was clearer, crisper, and more pronounced but smoother and definitely not barking at me, as is the common complaint with Heritage Klipsch. The highs were also more crisp and clear, and seemed to have a sharper attack. My son was with me and while listening to the Khorns he said he couldn’t tell a difference, so I switched them off and immediately turned on the Lascalas. His eyebrow lifted and his mouth dropped open. The difference of switching from the Khorns back to the Lascalas with their original networks was the most amazing thing ever. We all know that Lascalas sound good in their own right, but after listening to the Khorns with their upgraded networks and then switching back to the Lascalas, well, it was quite literally like listening to a cheap pair of off-the-shelf speakers from BestBuy. They sounded muffled and congested – as if they had a towel hanging in front of them. Imagine that for a moment…Lascalas sounding muddled and flat – how can that be? I wonder if the frequency response was changed........ Really, it was that big of a difference! I’m not talking a slight improvement here, I’m talking a huge improvement – it was literally as if I had purchased a whole new speaker system that performed well beyond what I originally had. The upgraded networks are that good. My advice to anyone who is still running original networks in their Lascalas or Khorns is to immediately purchase a new set of these networks. It is the single most important upgrade you can do for you entire system. No bull. I only had a couple hours on Tuesday to do the comparisons as I sold the Lascalas last night. I had them on CL for $1300 and sold them for $1500 – a bit of a bidding war. I paid $1000 for them 4 months ago and had custom glass cut to protect the tops. So not a bad turn. Anyway, it was enough time for me to realize I made a good move in getting the new networks from Dean. Thanks Dean! EDIT: I forgot to add that the Khorns sound like they are more efficient. I don't know if this is some sort of placebo affect or what. But at my listening position with the volume knob at its typical position I'm registering 105db peaks whereas before I don't remember them being above about 95-98db. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch Employees Chief bonehead Posted July 18, 2014 Klipsch Employees Share Posted July 18, 2014 I wonder if the frequency response was changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max2 Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 (edited) I think those are Deans AA version with Auricaps, but he will set it straight when he shows up. BTW, I can't wait for my Super X's to show up Edited July 18, 2014 by Max2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 (edited) I'm happy you're enjoying those Steve, you did good. These are Type AAs, but were sent with 15 ohm Mills resistors in parallel with the K-55s, connected to Tap 3 on the autotransformer. IOWs, the midrange is 6dB down instead of 3dB down. The resistor is used to keep the crossover point from shifting. If he wants, he can remove the resistors, move the jumpers back to Tap 4, and hear the midrange in all its glory. The resistors have the added benefit of reducing aberrations in the response due to peaks in the impedance caused by rearward reflections from the mouth of the horn and pinging off the phase plug. What do you say Chief Bonehead, do I have that right? Most of what people like about the ALK and SuperX is the reduced midrange attenuation, which incidentally, is also roughly 6dB down, and the slightly elevated response of the tweeter. Just about everyone stays at the 6dB down setting, which renders the other 17 settings useless, unless you move to one of the big horn/driver set ups. OTOH, you could actually go to one of those set ups, and with the simple addition of a coil and single capacitor change out -- be off and running again. Anyways, the K-55s are 6dB down, and still he mentions how bright and clear the midrange is compared to the way it was (as well as to the LaScalas he had). He even mentions that he thinks efficiency has increased -- and he's 6dB down! Somebody stop me before I jump on my lossy cap soapbox. Edited July 18, 2014 by DeanG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 BTW, I can't wait for my Super X's to show up Almost done. Those will be heading out to you on Monday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 I wonder if the frequency response was changed. Changed from the original stock response? Yes, I think so, but by how much, I don't know. Changed from what he had before he changed networks? For sure. We need an expert. Are you going to take off that stupid mask? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddeus Smith Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 We need an expert. Are you going to take off that stupid mask? hmm... https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/151201-guest/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Steven1963 Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 I'm happy you're enjoying those Steve, you did good. These are Type AAs, but were sent with 15 ohm Mills resistors in parallel with the K-55s, connected to Tap 3 on the autotransformer. IOWs, the midrange is 6dB down instead of 3dB down. The resistor is used to keep the crossover point from shifting. If he wants, he can remove the resistors, move the jumpers back to Tap 4, and hear the midrange in all its glory. The resistors have the added benefit of reducing aberrations in the response due to peaks in the impedance caused by rearward reflections from the mouth of the horn and pinging off the phase plug. What do you say Chief Bonehead, do I have that right? Most of what people like about the ALK and SuperX is the reduced midrange attenuation, which incidentally, is also roughly 6dB down, and the slightly elevated response of the tweeter. Just about everyone stays at the 6dB down setting, which renders the other 17 settings useless, unless you move to one of the big horn/driver set ups. OTOH, you could actually go to one of those set ups, and with the simple addition of a coil and single capacitor change out -- be off and running again. Anyways, the K-55s are 6dB down, and still he mentions how bright and clear the midrange is compared to the way it was (as well as to the LaScalas he had). He even mentions that he thinks efficiency has increased -- and he's 6dB down! Somebody stop me before I jump on my lossy cap soapbox. They are glorious and even more. Very happy with them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemon string Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 Dean upgraded the networks in my Cornwalls, I know the feeling! Congrats and enjoy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 Michael, if you're insinuating that it's Speakerfritz, it's not. The writing style doesn't fit. I think Chief Bonehead is an old friend of mine, and I think he's still mad at me, but that's not why he's here. He wants people to think, which is great -- but what he should be doing is teaching us. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max2 Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 BTW, I can't wait for my Super X's to show up Almost done. Those will be heading out to you on Monday. Cool! Inlaws will be gone by then You got a pic of them handy to tie me over until then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddeus Smith Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 Noted, Dean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 As convinced as I am about the difference in soundquality these crossovers provide, one thing puzzles me... We all buy interconnects and speakercables of high quality, connectors that do not corrode and even wall sockets and special plugs for main power. All this to minimize the losses while our music-signal is travelling form the source to the end of the chain; our loudspeakers. Why is it then, that a beautifull crossover like this is still equipped with the old-style terminal with so many connections the signal has to travel through? I investigated this while upgrading my La Scala's with the bass-mod; the ALK's would not fit in the top section because of the bassports in the back, so I'd repositioned the connections. After getting rid of the screw-type bar with connections and soldering the speakerleads directly to the crossover, I noticed that there was a small improvement in the highs [less harshness] and micro-details seemed more clear than before. Wether that was imagination or not; when you count the number of "transitions" involved when you use the bar-with-screws-type connector [with spades on the speakerlead to begin with] OR connect the leads directly to the components of the crossover themselves, you could start to wonder if it was imagination or not. One of the most striking comments I got when a technical engineer was visiting us to have a listen and said; " so you're into the high-efficiency thing that lets you hear every little detail..., what did you do to keep the complete signalpath short and clean? " As always, I'm open for thoughs about this; over the last years I try to hang on to the " less is more" idea when it comes to stereo and I like it. Nico Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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