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On display: Heritage-Inspired Wireless Speakers


Chad

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Notice that someone stole the freakin' PWK badges off our Heritage speakers! Basterds.

Khornkupia, it was a pleasure to meet you as well! Lovely chat.

how did that even go unnoticed? After hours security? I'm betting so. Just don't think you could do that in broad daylight when the show is full. Pretty ridiculous
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The Avantgarde Zero - 1 is a comparable horn loaded speaker product already on the market.  Avantgarde has offered self amplified speakers for some time and they are highly regarded in audiophlle circles.  They're expensive too.  The Zero - 1.......... up to $15K to $18K per pair.  BTW - the proposed frequency range of these Klipsch speakers exceeds the Zero - 1 on both ends.

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Notice that someone stole the freakin' PWK badges off our Heritage speakers! Basterds.

Khornkupia, it was a pleasure to meet you as well! Lovely chat.

how did that even go unnoticed? After hours security? I'm betting so. Just don't think you could do that in broad daylight when the show is full. Pretty ridiculous

 

 

What's interesting is that the Cornwall PWK badges were stolen first and they were definitely stolen during the day while the show was taking place. No idea when the others were nabbed. 

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OK... a few things...

 

"Based on Stadium" isn't a bad thing... it's exactly the same LTS titanium tweeter as reference.  Due to the "prototype" nature of the system, we used the Stadium top end (tweeter and mid), which as I mentioned before work has been continuing in parallel to the system going to CES - that stuff had to ship before Christmas, almost a month ago.  I heard the improved version, .  The woofer is a cerametallic version of the 5-1/4" woofer in the stadium, optimaized for the cabinet.

 

Wireless doesn't have to mean compressed.

 

WiSA is capable of 24/96.  If you connect a CD or BD player to the transmit side (HMDI, optical, or analog), you will get the same thing out on the other end.  If you have a media server connected, you won't lose any fidelity over what you ripped.

 

Bluetooth is mainly there as a convenience that many people are familier with and already use - otherwise WiSA is passing just what you put into it.

 

WiFi technologies (AirPlay as one example) don't do anything to the stream either.  If it's 16/44.1 in my music library, that's what you get.  For music around the house my preference is a media server

 

On the subject of compression... if you have the inclination... get a good outboard DAC (this is essential), and then download a copy of foobar2000 and get the plug in that let's you do ABX comparisons.

 

Burn a few tracks of some revelaing music, and convert them to 128kpbs VBR and 320kbps VBR - or whatever format you favor... then have fun.  If nothing else you will be surprised how far compression technology has come.

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BUT, like several others, I have no need nor do I want, powered/active speakers... from Klipsch or anyone else.

As a current LaScala owner (3 pair in my 5.1 setup) my "upgrade path" would either be towards new LaScala 2's or possibly towards a JubScala type setup with Pro/Cinema subs (KPT-684). However in my other living room I have KLF-20's and CF-1's (2 Channel). And it would be great if these "Heritage-Inspired" speakers were available as an upgrade. But, again, the powered/active aspect kind of ruins it for me, since the main equipment is older stereo receivers.

It may seem like a foreign concept to those in the product development and marketing departments. But many people still have dedicated systems, with 20-40 year old equipment, where they walk over to a rack/cabinet, pick up a CD/record, and then que it up to listen... all the way through.

 

We are not just going to push out products that cover the same people over and over. You have viable upgrade options with both the La Scala and the Cornwall. We have not forgotten about the people with systems like yours. We still make plenty of good options for those folks.

 

 

Just to clarify... I wasn't saying these "Wireless Concept Speakers" would be my upgrade option for the Heritage LaScala based system I now have.  I believe I stated that pretty clearly with the LaScala 2, JubScala and/or Pro Cinema line additions I mentioned.

 

However, for someone like me who has/had older pairs of KLF-20, Epic CF, Chorus II, Forte II, etc. in a 2 channel setup... And wanted to buy "Brand New Klipsch" as an addition or upgrade, then yes, these new "Concept Speakers" would be something worth considering (but without the amps, DSP and WiSA electronics).

 

You mentioned there were "plenty of good options" for "people with systems like mine"... what are those options in your opinion?  And again, I'm talking about someone with the older/bigger KLF-20/30, Epic CF and/or Forte2/Chorus2... That is looking for something with a similar footprint and (non Heritage) price, that actually sounds better than those older models?  I know the answer is very subjective, but I would like to know your opinion?

 

 

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Back to the new "Heritage-Inspired" line being shown and some of the comments made... I just don't see how you market a $1500-$3000 set of speakers to people, looking for the convenience, of being able to wirelessly play music (mostly lossy and compressed) from their ipods, phones or other streaming type devices?

We can no longer just make great speakers for audiophiles and speaker nerds. As far as market goes, you gotta remember there are people out there who pay over $1000 for shoes and over $300 for denim. There is an absolutely massive high-end market for just about anything. 

 

In order to survive, Klipsch needs to find a new market outside of these forums and those who go to boutique audio dealers. We need to constantly find new ways to compete especially with Beats, Bose, JBL, etc throwing INSANE amounts of money to the low-end.

 

Like it or not, wireless is the future and Klipsch needs to be at the forefront at providing amazing audio solutions. These speakers were never intended to replace anything from the Heritage line whether it be Fortes, Chorus, or Heresys. They are something totally new but using some inspiration from the Heritage speakers.

 

It's never going to be called "Heritage" so maybe we should all just call them "Made in USA Wireless Concept Speakers" for now.

 

 
Since I have spent $$$$$ on Klipsch speakers over the years, I won't offer my opinion on those who spend $1000 for shoes and over $300 for jeans.  Though I would ask and wonder if those same people were willing to spend $1500-$3000 on "Wireless Concept Speakers"?
 
 
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And saying they're based off of the "Stadium" seems to do them a disservice as well. Because I don't know anyone that would pay $2000 for a powered speaker, that you can move/carry around your house.. so you can have music in the kitchen or bathroom? Maybe that's just me?

 

I'm not sure you have heard Stadium or know too much about it. You don't move it. It's one of our very best products in 15 years. It's sound is downright ridiculous. Ask the engineers.

 

 

No, I have not heard the "Stadium Home Music System"...  And the only thing I know about it, is what I've read on the "Stadium Product Page" on the Klipsch website.  You say "You don't move it"... yet there are photos showing it located in various places around what appears to be an office, living room and kitchen?  I guess it's size belies its immovability, so I would have to buy 3 or 4 to provide whole house coverage?

 

Instead of "asking the engineers" how it sounds... how about you point me to a dealer that actually has one that I can look at, touch and listen to?  I'm located in zip code 75052, which is right in the middle of the Dallas/Fort Worth Metroplex.  My own limited search today, of Klipsch dealers (those within 50 miles, as listed on your website) in this area, leads me to believe they don't know what it is and/or they don't have one.  Though in fairness, one place (StarPower) did have a pre-production model at one point, but even it was no longer available.

 

 

_________________________

 

If these speakers were made as shown... What kind of guarantee is Klipsch going to provide related to the amps and all the electronics? What if 5 years down the road the WiSA standard completely changes or goes away?

Lastly, I wonder how much LESS these new speakers would potentially cost, if you removed all of the amps, DSP and WiSA related electronics and replaced them with a passive crossover?

One could hope, but it probably ain't gonna happen...

 

WISA will definitely exist then, but let's just say it doesn't..the speakers are still going to work the same way and kick ***. They don't just stop working. WISA isn't a replacement for Bluetooth. WISA is just the way the two speakers talk to each other. WISA is not a source connectivity option like an input/bluetooth/airplay.

 

 

Maybe I should have posed the question looking a little farther down the road... like 10-20 years?  But mainly my concern is that as a speaker, full of electronic equipment, there are more things that can go wrong with it... versus a purely passive speaker, connected with good ol' copper wire, to the amplifier/receiver of my choosing.

 

 

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These will not be made into passive options. We have enough passive options out there. We are a small company that can only support so many SKUs. It would be fun to make an option for everyone, but that's not possible.

 

 

The fact that they won't be made into passive options is unfortunate.  And I would argue that the passive options (Reference, Icon, Gallery, etc) that have come along in the last 20 years or so, haven't been worth it (to me, in my own subjective terms) to consider as an upgrade to my current KLF-20's or former Forte II, Chorus II pairs.

 

The argument that Klipsch is a small company that can only support so many SKU's, sounds like BS to me... I'd argue that Klipsch has more SKU's today (or within the last year or two) than it's ever had in its history.  Now back in 1989, when I bought my first pair of Forte's, I'd say Klipsch was a "small" company.  Yet I could go to at least 2 places in the Dallas/Fort Worth area back then and see, touch and listen to almost all of the Klipsch product line.  Can't do that today...

 

If and/or when these "Wireless Concept Speakers" get built and go on sale, what stores/dealers would potentially (actually) carry them?  Or do we just have to "ask the engineers" how they sound and buy them online?

 

 

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BTW, we really do appreciate your two cents! If I came away curt, it was not my intention. I just wanted to answer your concerns, point by point to the best of my abilities.

 

I have no problew with anyone being curt, whether intentional or not, as long as they are offering an honest opinion.  

 

And as a longtime Klipsch customer, and as long as the Heritage line is around, I'll continue to wait and see what the future holds.

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Just to clarify... I wasn't saying these "Wireless Concept Speakers" would be my upgrade option for the Heritage LaScala based system I now have. I believe I stated that pretty clearly with the LaScala 2, JubScala and/or Pro Cinema line additions I mentioned.

However, for someone like me who has/had older pairs of KLF-20, Epic CF, Chorus II, Forte II, etc. in a 2 channel setup... And wanted to buy "Brand New Klipsch" as an addition or upgrade, then yes, these new "Concept Speakers" would be something worth considering (but without the amps, DSP and WiSA electronics).

You mentioned there were "plenty of good options" for "people with systems like mine"... what are those options in your opinion? And again, I'm talking about someone with the older/bigger KLF-20/30, Epic CF and/or Forte2/Chorus2... That is looking for something with a similar footprint and (non Heritage) price, that actually sounds better than those older models? I know the answer is very subjective, but I would like to know your opinion?

Since I have spent $$$$$ on Klipsch speakers over the years, I won't offer my opinion on those who spend $1000 for shoes and over $300 for jeans. Though I would ask and wonder if those same people were willing to spend $1500-$3000 on "Wireless Concept Speakers"?

No, I have not heard the "Stadium Home Music System"... And the only thing I know about it, is what I've read on the "Stadium Product Page" on the Klipsch website. You say "You don't move it"... yet there are photos showing it located in various places around what appears to be an office, living room and kitchen? I guess it's size belies its immovability, so I would have to buy 3 or 4 to provide whole house coverage?

Instead of "asking the engineers" how it sounds... how about you point me to a dealer that actually has one that I can look at, touch and listen to? I'm located in zip code 75052, which is right in the middle of the Dallas/Fort Worth Metroplex. My own limited search today, of Klipsch dealers (those within 50 miles, as listed on your website) in this area, leads me to believe they don't know what it is and/or they don't have one. Though in fairness, one place (StarPower) did have a pre-production model at one point, but even it was no longer available.

Maybe I should have posed the question looking a little farther down the road... like 10-20 years? But mainly my concern is that as a speaker, full of electronic equipment, there are more things that can go wrong with it... versus a purely passive speaker, connected with good ol' copper wire, to the amplifier/receiver of my choosing.

The fact that they won't be made into passive options is unfortunate. And I would argue that the passive options (Reference, Icon, Gallery, etc) that have come along in the last 20 years or so, haven't been worth it (to me, in my own subjective terms) to consider as an upgrade to my current KLF-20's or former Forte II, Chorus II pairs.

The argument that Klipsch is a small company that can only support so many SKU's, sounds like BS to me... I'd argue that Klipsch has more SKU's today (or within the last year or two) than it's ever had in its history. Now back in 1989, when I bought my first pair of Forte's, I'd say Klipsch was a "small" company. Yet I could go to at least 2 places in the Dallas/Fort Worth area back then and see, touch and listen to almost all of the Klipsch product line. Can't do that today...

If and/or when these "Wireless Concept Speakers" get built and go on sale, what stores/dealers would potentially (actually) carry them? Or do we just have to "ask the engineers" how they sound and buy them online?

I have no problew with anyone being curt, whether intentional or not, as long as they are offering an honest opinion.

And as a longtime Klipsch customer, and as long as the Heritage line is around, I'll continue to wait and see what the future holds.

Whoops, I misread your post. Didn't realize you already had La Scalas! For some reason, I thought you "only" had Choruses which is why I suggested La Scala II or Cornwall. My apologies! Have you demo'd the RF-7 II before? If so, I'm curious what your thoughts are.

 

There are photos of the Stadium in different parts of the house because you need to show lifestyle photos of the products in different areas of the house, so people who have different ideas of where they want the speaker can imagine it. Plus, it allows us versatility for ads, social media, etc. It's quite a heavy beast, so, yes, you would have to buy multiple pieces to cover the whole house.

 

You make a fair point about 10-20 years. I'm not going to pretend I have the answer to that conundrum.

 

When I said we have two many SKUs, I am not comparing it to past times, as we definitely have more than then. That I am saying we almost have too many to support right now between PD, marketing, customer service, engineering, it's a lot to ask.

 

You are correct that it is harder now to demo Klipsch speakers than ever. It's sad! The boutique audio dealers are going away rapidly. We are looking at new types of dealers to display our products. 2015 should be a big year in that regard.

 

I will ask in the morning when I return to the office on where you can demo a Stadium in your area if it's possible. When I said "ask the engineers", I was simply saying that it is a product that we are extremely proud of - not that you shouldn't hear it for yourself!

 

As these are concept speakers, I have no idea where they will be placed. These are still a ways off. 

 

Really, I probably shouldn't declare that making a passive version isn't an option. It's just not really in the plans at the moment BUT since this product is still early on, anything could happen.

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The Avantgarde Zero - 1 is a comparable horn loaded speaker product already on the market.  Avantgarde has offered self amplified speakers for some time and they are highly regarded in audiophlle circles.  They're expensive too.  The Zero - 1.......... up to $15K to $18K per pair.  BTW - the proposed frequency range of these Klipsch speakers exceeds the Zero - 1 on both ends.

The Zero 1 is a very beautiful speaker indeed, and one I wish to hear one day. That said, what I posted is in fact the measured frequency response of the system shown at CES, not just a proposed goal. :)

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The Avantgarde Zero - 1 is a comparable horn loaded speaker product already on the market.  Avantgarde has offered self amplified speakers for some time and they are highly regarded in audiophlle circles.  They're expensive too.  The Zero - 1.......... up to $15K to $18K per pair.  BTW - the proposed frequency range of these Klipsch speakers exceeds the Zero - 1 on both ends.

The Zero 1 is a very beautiful speaker indeed, and one I wish to hear one day. That said, what I posted is in fact the measured frequency response of the system shown at CES, not just a proposed goal. :)

 

:D  :P  :D  :)  :) 

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Perhaps the rationale for wireless loudspeakers is being revealed:

Google Cast will offer direct streaming from apps to Sony, LG, and Denon audio products this spring

The feature will work just like Google’s Chromecast streaming stick: Tap the “cast” button in an app on Android, iOS, or the web, and select a Google Cast-supported device. The speakers pull content directly from the cloud, not your device, “so you’ll get the best audio quality and can freely multitask on your phone, tablet, or laptop, all without straining the battery,”...Apps like Deezer, Google Play Music, iHeartRadio, NPR One, Pandora, Rdio, and TuneIn have already signed on, and the company is expecting “many more” to follow.

Edited by Chris A
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Chad and Alex:

 

Thank you for the great information about these speakers, and also your posts about what Klipsch is doing and where you are headed.

 

I think folks are struggling with the "concept" in terms of who and what these speakers are intended for.  I know that I initially did until I thought about it and started looking at what else, if anything, was out there.  I initially thought that the only products (since I am not in that "market") were compact sound bars that you plug an iphone into (cradle), or something high end like the Stadium, or maybe the Sonus speakers where you can get "whole house" audio without wiring.   When I looked around for "bluetooth tower speakers" what initially popped up where speaker from Craig, Jensen, VM Audio and some others that ranged from about $100 to $300.  The VM Audio Exat 33 were very looking and appeared to be the best of the bunch at about 300 a pair. 

 

So it initially looked like you were way over market, but I started looking around some more and ran into Focal Easya at Crutchfield, for about $2,800 a pair photo, and these would appear to be the upper end of the market, or at least what initially popped up when I looked.  Introduced late 2013, they were apparently on display at the T.H.E. show in 2014.  It looks like there is a huge gap between the lower end stuff at Walmart, Bestbuy, etc. and the Focals.  Of course, I know I am not telling you anything you don't already know, just laying it out for those who may be struggling with who exactly these are intended for like I was.

 

Was there many new "wireless tower/floor-standing speaker" offerings at CES this year besides yours?

 

I think part of the problem with the question you posed, at least for me, is in asking what we thought of the idea most of us on here don't have a current realistic reference point.  The best analogy I can think of would be if this were a high end automobile owner's forum (take your pick, Mercedes Benz, Lexus, Lincoln, Porsche, Ferrari, Corvette, Viper, etc.) and they had a "concept" car at the Detroit auto show with one of their high performance cars of the past that had an electric motor that ran on batteries, and could go about 70 miles on a charge.  Few, if any, current owners of a high performance vehicle would be interested unless there might possibly be some potential collector value to it.  I remember twenty years ago seeing "electric" concept cars at high end auto shows and nobody could see it, except maybe executives of energy and power companies.

 

Members on here, with great sounding two way speakers, regardless of whether they are Heritage, Reference, or otherwise, are not in the "market."  I think you have tried to bring out in many of your posts on here that the new,  current, younger market is very much different.  I think we are all aware that there was a major degradation of sound the new generation was brought up on with inferior downloads (we will never agree as compared to what, vinyl, CD, DVD-A, SACD), but everyone recognizes that too many shortcuts were taken to the point that the market and artists (Neil Young) are pushing back and demanding better fidelity software, regardless of whether it is a download or not. 

 

It wasn't until your post and looking at this that I had forgotten that the market, or a vast percentage of it, believes that the best sound they ever heard was when they switched from standard earbuds to Dr. Dre Beats for their MP3 player.  I don't think that is really that far off.  I think for ages 14 to 25 the vast majority would have a reference point that comes from:  1) what comes through their television speakers, 2) computer speakers, 3)  sound at the movie theater (about a 50% chance it is Klipsch, which is why you need a movie trailer at the beginning of the movie that is mind blowing that says:  The Audience is listening . . . to KLIPSCH), 4) the ear phones they have plugged into their MP3/portable player, or, 5) their car speakers.  

 

Most of the market (here's a shocker) believe all audio equipment pretty much sounds alike.  Thus, the mass-market's emphasis on selling components is by features and price.  

 

I wonder how many people on here know that the headphone market exceeds 2 Billion (that's billion with a "B".  Before the sale to Apple, Beats was 25% of that market (500M).  I wonder how many know that the "high end" audio market has declined 50% over that last 10 years.  I wonder how many know what the total market for high end audio is?  I know Mr. Shalam, as a current Board Member of CEA knows, and by virtue of his membership on the Board of the Audio Divison of CEA, that Mr. Jacobs is acutely aware as well.

 

I have enjoyed many of your comments on here explaining to folks what it is that Klipsch is trying to do.  That Klipsch intends to focus on quality products worthy of the Klipsch brand as opposed to being the cheapest.  A great case in point has been your stadium product.  You look on websites that carry that product, Parts Express for example, and you look where it lies in the range, it is at the top.  

 

This reminds me of being in an Apple Store recently with my girlfriend who had to purchase something, while we were waiting I of course went over to the audio products (which is pretty much only headphones) and there in a line from left to right were about 5 options all in a row from lowest to highest price and set up so you could easily compare them to one another in terms of sound, comfort, etc.  On one end was something like Urban Ears, and then Beats, and then Sennheiser, and at the far end, Bowers and Wilkins.  There were cards in front of each set of headphones with specs and features. I was curious to watch and listen to people's reactions and, for the most part, people over 30 said they thought the sound of the Sennheiser or B&W were best out of the five or six available; and they either concluded that the extra money was either worth it or not.  However, they did conclude for themselves they were of higher build and sound quality and why they cost more.  The younger crowd didn't even want to compare, they wanted Beats because "Tim has these" or "Susie just got these in purple and they sound awesome."  It is great to see Klipsch exploring the headphone, wireless and other product markets.  

 

Wireless tower speakers are for sure a "niche" market as you say.  I think most forum members are going to fall outside of that niche.  You would certainly know best on how big it is, what the best price points are, and ultimately whether it is worth or not to expand beyond the wireless Premium Reference (which sounded like would be produced for sure, and could be run in a 2 channel set up just as easily as a HT system?).  I would say that most Heritage owners, even the most loyal, are not in the market for it.  As you have seen, neither nostalgia or sentiment are enough to even see the "need" for this product, much like people initially seeing the need for an electric vehicle.  

 

For me, I have two spaces that it would be nice to have a 2 Channel set up in with sound in the background (kind of what the Stadium is designed to do), and it would be great to have a great sounding 2 channel "system" without having a separate amp to be able to play a cd or digital file.  

 

These are perfect for dorm rooms, apartments, vacation/2nd homes, and anyone who wants better sound without having to get an amp or HT receiver.  Like you say, this generation (the market), is used to being able to plug a mini-jack into something and have sound come out of it.  I am not a big headphone listener, but I would think they would agree that good floor standing speakers are a definite move up in sound quality from their tv speakers/headphones/car audio they are used to listening to.

 

Regardless of whether they are launched or not, it is nice to see that Klipsch is focusing on being on the far end of a row of products, where after a prospective buyer listens to 3 or 4 similar products says "those Klipsch for sure sound the best, I can see why they cost more" and that sound will either be worth the difference or not.  Some will buy it because it is made in the USA because, like you, I buy American whenever I can.  (I know how much Gittman shirts and Oxxford suits cost).  Some will buy it because of the Klipsch name, the sound quality, the appearance (not much comment of what great WAF there is here), and probably a dozen other factors or combination thereof.  Of course, many won't.  They, like the vast majority of the market, buy based on "price and features."  

 

I think it is all very exciting and looking forward to seeing how things go.

 

Travis

 

Edited

 

P.S.:  The total value of the "high end" audio market is 200 million.

Edited by dwilawyer
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I recommended these new speakers to a friend this morning.  She is a cosmetic surgeon and very tech oriented.  She enjoys music but has no 'system' and does not desire to obtain any new source product and was sadly satisfied with poor quality sound reproduction......... until she heard my corner horns.  Now these will work perfect for her........  plug - link and play.  She gets her techy toys and a grand improvement in her listening enjoyment.  They are a simple but sophisticated solution that will deliver (I assume).

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The Heritage inspired, Made in USA Wireless Concept Speakers sound and look good. My listening session reminded me of the tone and clarity of a live band in a cozy club, on a smaller scale of course and as well as could be expected for the exhibit's environment while using a smart phone as a music source. Most everyone who saw and heard them while I was there wanted to take the speakers home.

 

The structure behind the concept speakers in this picture was the Reference Premiere Atmos home theater demo room. That was nice!

 

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