Deang Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 What "research and development"? All of the components are off the shelf. They're nice, and I'm sure they sound good - but they're not $30K nice. (2) Networks from ALK, $1500 (2) Radian 950BeBP-15, $1650 (2) B&C de120, $350 (2) Elliptrac 400, $700 (2) 15" Woofers, $300 That takes care of the components, and we've spent less than $5K. Let's say it takes another $5K in materials and labor to finish them -- which leaves $20K in profit. My point is that they're priced too high for what they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddeus Smith Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 So are bose, beats, and prostitutes. Buuuuuuuuuuut... They still sell like hot cakes. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 That takes care of the components, and we've spent less than $5K. Let's say it takes another $5K in materials and labor to finish them So cost around 10k. Most speakers retail @ 200% of cost so 20K would be reasonable then. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimbo Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 What "research and development"? All of the components are off the shelf. They're nice, and I'm sure they sound good - but they're not $30K nice. (2) Networks from ALK, $1500 (2) Radian 950BeBP-15, $1650 (2) B&C de120, $350 (2) Elliptrac 400, $700 (2) 15" Woofers, $300 That takes care of the components, and we've spent less than $5K. Let's say it takes another $5K in materials and labor to finish them -- which leaves $20K in profit. My point is that they're priced too high for what they are. OK, how bout we talk overpriced crossovers? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woofers and Tweeters Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 Awesome looking speaker. Bet is sounds awesome too. Klipsch should have made their own Cornscala version years ago. +1 As good as the Cornwall sounds, it's still just a center for Khorns. If Klipsch would have developed a real full range speaker using the Cornwall as a jumping off point.... and it's still not too late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 It's sad really. When they finally decided to bring back the Cornwall, they discovered that they had lost the mold for the K-600. So instead of doing it right, they threw a K-700 in there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 I sure as hell didn't mark my stuff up 300%. With that math, my AAs would have been priced at $2500 a pair! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 Absolutely no need for this type of comment regarding a well respected member of this forum. I didn't know a forum member is producing those! I have all the respect in the world for someone who has the courage to follow his dreams and is putting his product on the line. That is fantastic, and I hope he is successful beyond his wildest imaginings! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimbo Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 Absolutely no need for this type of comment regarding a well respected member of this forum. I didn't know a forum member is producing those! I have all the respect in the world for someone who has the courage to follow his dreams and is putting his product on the line. That is fantastic, and I hope he is successful beyond his wildest imaginings! Justin Weber is one of the nicest, most helpful people you could ever want to know. His customer service is really above and beyond. I wish him all the best. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzannucci Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 No problem pricing what the market will bear. Any correction will be made on perceived value. But I would expect a finished back and a cabinet like a rock for 20k+ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prerich Posted June 10, 2016 Author Share Posted June 10, 2016 No problem pricing what the market will bear. Any correction will be made on perceived value. But I would expect a finished back and a cabinet like a rock for 20k+ The Macassar Ebony model looks pretty solid!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckAb3 Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 Those are great looking speakers, Justin. Best of luck. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karsoncookie Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 "Cost" has absolutely NOTHING to do with asking selling price on ANYTHING, As long as the TOTAL "cost" (ALL expenses) is/ are covered, sky is the limit. Past the above, It's all all about perception of "value". ALL about "posture" and presentation. Lars 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prerich Posted June 10, 2016 Author Share Posted June 10, 2016 (edited) There's another example of a design going into the stratosphere (besides for the Volti's)...which I've previously owned...the Snell E/EII. The Snell that sold for a grand, eventually became the Audio Note AN/E (the Sogon version sells for over $100k a pair)! When my Snell's were damaged, I had to contact Audio Note for replacement parts!!!! So looking at what one of our own has accomplished - with quality drivers and furniture finishes.....yeah, I can see it now. The Audio Note AN/E sells pretty good (and sounds pretty good too), and has served as several reviewers reference system. I'm very happy with my modified Cornwalls (ALK crossovers, Crites Tweeters, and Fostex Supertweeters), but I wish Justin the best of success in his endeavor...he just may prove to be the next Peter Qvortrup!!!! I'd like to see him get a serious review! Edited June 10, 2016 by prerich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justinsweber Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 Hey Guys thanks for the notice. I can’t really go crazy with details to respect the fact that this is a Klipsch forum. That said, many of the parts used have been adjusted /spec’d for our specific use (Horns, cabinets and crossovers) to get the maximum performance possible. The prices listed are pretty close to correct, they will likely be a dealer only item. The 3ways are ~150lbs each and are created from transport, ~450lbs with crates. Lifting them into the back of my truck was an exp Ill soon not forget. Ive done shows before, but 2 rooms was too much . For any product to be sold by dealers there is a 40% hit to gross by the dealers for their efforts. Retail prices generally on audio average anywhere from 3-5x manufacturing coast… all new ideas to me. The 2way and 3 way use very different crossovers and drivers as the design goals were different.Other interesting notes… veneer is crazy expensive. I used to stain and finish good ply wood. At this level that is not enough… so Rosewood and Ebony veneers were used. The finish is a grain filled polyester finish… very difficult to obtain in CA due to EPA rules. Ultimately its color sanded and polished much like a cars paint job. The finish work ended up representing 1/3 the total manufacturing costs as we wanted the highest possible finish we could achieve while still having the work done in the US. A cool fact about the 2 ways is that they are an all US/Canada sourced and built product. Getting the berlyum to behave nicely required some serious design chops on the crossover. I’ve met Richard Kontrimas of Radian multiple times I can tell you he is an amazing engineer/ specialist in material sciences. He had incredibly kind words for the 3way though it was not using his drivers. The process now is developing dealer relationships. We are participating in a headphone show this weekend which should be fun. Starting a company is not for the tame of heart… quickbooks, bookkeepers oh my. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 They look great. I hope to hear em' one day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justinsweber Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 jwc I heard your new bass bins are amazing... I'm hope I'll be able to hear really soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arky Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 Keep in mind the "cornscala" isn't a Klipsch product. . Before the forum conversion I had the original threads identified and bookmarked where Bob Crites was building a "test box" set up; and a parallel thread where he first "coined" the term "CornScala" in reference to the test box (that ultimately morphed into the various CornScala products on his site). I haven't had a chance to "re-find" those threads since the old bookmark links no longer work. I bought bob's 1st set after the test boxes........awesome 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 (edited) Well. Bob built a driver test box in the fall of 2004. I started calling him about this. He didn't copy the internals of the cornwall. He needed a ported box with the mounting capabilities of the K400 and tweeter to test drivers. All kinds of names had been thrown around in the past like herescala, Forncorn...and such. But the earliest that the "Cornscala" word was seen on the forum was probably Bob. Look here on his test box thread. https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/46019-lets-build-a-driver-test-box/?hl=%2Blet+%2Bbuild+%2Bdriver+%2Btest+%2Bbox Here is some chatter after the test box...... https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/50350-separate-bass-bin/?hl=cornscala#entry478737 https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/47822-make-cornwall-bass-bin/?hl=cornscala#entry452322 Here is one of the exchanges with Bob about making the internals "like the cornwall" volume and make ext like scala....... """Hey Bob,Thanks for the input. The reason I asked is because I have invisioned such a project as the Cornscala. I've seen your posts.Question, Is there a way to keep the same cubic volume of the bass bin but make it taller and skinnier? I would like to have a speaker taller than the cornwall or the scala and make the width just about the width of the mid on the scala. Would that change the "tuning" of the 15" woofer to be unsatisfactory or would there need to be a crossover change?jc----------------jc,The volume of the box and the area of the ports are important to keep the Bass output at about the same as a Cornwall. The width of the motor board could decrease by a couple of inches and still accomodate the width of the K-401. The depth is really dictated by the length of the K-401 horn and its driver. That is about 24 inches when it is mounted on the back of a 3/4 inch motor board. Of course the bass bin could be less than that depth, but the horn would still place the front of the cabinet 24 inches from a wall.Bob Crites""" It was at that time I started measuring the exact internals of the cornwall and making an experiment out of it with the plan to build a home cornscala that was the EXACT internal cabinet volume to the spec of the cornwall. The port was identical in width height and depth. It is just that the volume dims was changed to make it look like a la scala. I made several calls to Bob and ALK during this and had Dean G make the network. I put my K600 with driver in two garbage bags and dunked them in water to get the exact "volume displacement". I started cutting wood in March of 2005. Below is the posts thread started later to describe the build. There is a downloadable file.....which I'll post again. I built another Cornscala over 10 years later with my son.......but used a different build technique. It was quicker as Bob now has a motoboard for the "classic cornscala"....which I can't understand why folks don't go that route when making a cornscala. I'm not aware of somebody building a "cornscala" after Bob's test box before mine. I actually would like to see somebody prove me wrong otherwise....cause I didn't see any pop up during this time. That was a great year for me taking on that project. I know that he started making boxes for the cornscala later...in fact I think I remember assembling the first at a Hope gathering. That trip was also a very memorable moment. A fun moment during that assembly was me bringing in my battery charged drill to help screw in the panels....I handed it to Bob and the freakin thing was dead. I looked like an idiot. Fun times. https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/55944-alk-cornscala-with-k401-or-trachorn/?hl=%2Bcornscala+%2Btrachorn https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/56328-post-from-the-infamous-jw-cullisonforthcoming/?hl=cornscala#entry545945 https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/56329-alk-la-scala-otdcornscala-here-to-stay/?hl=cornscala Long live the Cornscala. jc cs4.pdf Edited June 12, 2016 by jwc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 (edited) For any product to be sold by dealers there is a 40% hit to gross by the dealers for their efforts. Retail prices generally on audio average anywhere from 3-5x manufacturing coast… all new ideas to me. The 2way and 3 way use very different crossovers and drivers as the design goals were different. I'm glad you posted Justin so I can more personally show you the mad respect you deserve. I ran a business for ten years and it's darn hard, and I understand first hand what it takes not just to make money, but to survive in business. You are manufacturing a product that makes the difficulty go up that much higher. Best of luck to you. +++ I can tell you as small business seller that if you can't mark a product up 35% you are not going to make any money and as dealer I wouldn't even waste my floor space carrying a no or low profit product. If Justin's dealer network can't make any money, Justin can't stay in business. And that 3-5 times manufacturing cost to retail price is in my opinion low. The number I've typically heard is 6x cost to retail. Having a good product is not enough. Despite what our ignorant government "leaders" would have us believe, you don't produce a product to "create jobs" or even"make speakers" for the love of the product. You are in the business of making money. To survive in business making a good product is necessary, but not sufficient. Any business that loses sight sight of that is doomed to fail. Here's wishing Justin all the success in the world. Edited June 12, 2016 by wvu80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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