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Suggestions regarding police interactions


DizRotus
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Isn't that the point of the thread, too? How to act when interacting with the police?

 

My response was purposefully ambiguous.  Interpret it as you see fit. 

 

Dave

 

 

I know what you meant.  I agree that another world could be nicer.  However, having thought long and hard about where we are today, I only can go so far as to get to the "chicken and the egg" question.

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1. Put the window down immediately; 2. Turn on the interior light; 3. Respond respectfully to questions or commands from the officer; 4. Keep his hands at 10 & 2 on the wheel until the officer directs otherwise; and 5. Reach for the glove box, or anywhere else, ONLY AFTER directed to do so by the officer.

And turn off the engine and place the keys on the dash in plain sight .

And Never Ever Never get out of the vehicle unless requested to do so. That act might provoke a drawn gun quicker than any other.

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Notwithstanding the need to show police respect, review the content on this thread.  What it appears to have come down to is a group of field operative civil servants with a very dangerous task but one that also lends itself to aggressive abuses.  THAT is the gist of the critical public observations and their various protests.  By the authority of the badge the police can conduct themselves in just about any fashion.  If not for the various videos, etc.........  many of these events would not have surfaced.  And, admit this much...........  LEO's do tend to defend the actions of their colleagues.  In my neck of the woods nearly any threat is met with deadly force.  LEOs do not wait for back-up and typically assert actions often provoking the violence usually in the mentally compromised offenders.  Some LEOs thrive upon physical conflict.  Some LEOs thrive upon causing undue anguish.  

 

So - is it to be out of respect that I conduct myself in a LEO interaction with the utmost care and safety or am I cowering in fear in the presence of an officer who could literally take my life or cost me dearly in many ways?  Police used to be revered and that is no longer the usual situation.  Nobody jumps for joy when lit up.  Your heart races and you desperately dread the ensuing interaction. Police still hide in bushes to hand out speeding tickets that are 3 miles over the limit.  They drive menacing vehicles, wear armor and are armed to the gills.  The term 'police state' is starting to appear too close to reality.  They will vote en bloc for the candidates their union supports.  They are the only empowered group allowed to shoot 1st and answer questions later.  And they are not recruited from the best of the best.  

 

So yeah - I conduct myself with the utmost care when dealing with police (whether I call them or not).  And usually the interaction is not a fond memory and too often it has been a real pathetic disappointment.

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Notwithstanding the need to show police respect, review the content on this thread.  What it appears to have come down to is a group of field operative civil servants with a very dangerous task but one that also lends itself to aggressive abuses.  THAT is the gist of the critical public observations and their various protests.  By the authority of the badge the police can conduct themselves in just about any fashion.  If not for the various videos, etc.........  many of these events would not have surfaced.  And, admit this much...........  LEO's do tend to defend the actions of their colleagues.  In my neck of the woods nearly any threat is met with deadly force.  LEOs do not wait for back-up and typically assert actions often provoking the violence usually in the mentally compromised offenders.  Some LEOs thrive upon physical conflict.  Some LEOs thrive upon causing undue anguish.  

 

So - is it to be out of respect that I conduct myself in a LEO interaction with the utmost care and safety or am I cowering in fear in the presence of an officer who could literally take my life or cost me dearly in many ways?  Police used to be revered and that is no longer the usual situation.  Nobody jumps for joy when lit up.  Your heart races and you desperately dread the ensuing interaction. Police still hide in bushes to hand out speeding tickets that are 3 miles over the limit.  They drive menacing vehicles, wear armor and are armed to the gills.  The term 'police state' is starting to appear too close to reality.  They will vote en bloc for the candidates their union supports.  They are the only empowered group allowed to shoot 1st and answer questions later.  And they are not recruited from the best of the best.  

 

So yeah - I conduct myself with the utmost care when dealing with police (whether I call them or not).  And usually the interaction is not a fond memory and too often it has been a real pathetic disappointment.

So many comments can be made to this non sense that I elect to keep to myself or most probably have the discussion closed.

But quickly, I bet your heart will be racing much faster when the violence is directed toward you or your family and LE can't get to you fast enough. Bet you don't care if they call for back-up then, as long as they arrive in time to hopefully ward off your situation as you piss your pants.

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One of the things my son was critical of regarding both recent videos is the failure to call for back-up.  He considers it poor police work to put oneself, or the suspect, in a position of danger unnecessarily.  Deadly force should be a last resort.  The vast majority of police officers NEVER fire their weapon on duty.  Nevertheless, long periods of boredom can be punctuated by moments of terror.  It's a dangerous and, too often, thankless job but somebody has to do it.

 

Yes the police have been too slow to police themselves.  That seems to be changing.  In my lawyer life I defended medical malpractice cases.  IMO, to a large degree, physicians were also too slow to police themselves.  I witnessed plenty of sloppy medicine that went unreported. Physicians were reluctant to rat out their fellow doctors.

Edited by DizRotus
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Notwithstanding the need to show police respect, review the content on this thread.  What it appears to have come down to is a group of field operative civil servants with a very dangerous task but one that also lends itself to aggressive abuses.  THAT is the gist of the critical public observations and their various protests.  By the authority of the badge the police can conduct themselves in just about any fashion.  If not for the various videos, etc.........  many of these events would not have surfaced.  And, admit this much...........  LEO's do tend to defend the actions of their colleagues.  In my neck of the woods nearly any threat is met with deadly force.  LEOs do not wait for back-up and typically assert actions often provoking the violence usually in the mentally compromised offenders.  Some LEOs thrive upon physical conflict.  Some LEOs thrive upon causing undue anguish.  

 

So - is it to be out of respect that I conduct myself in a LEO interaction with the utmost care and safety or am I cowering in fear in the presence of an officer who could literally take my life or cost me dearly in many ways?  Police used to be revered and that is no longer the usual situation.  Nobody jumps for joy when lit up.  Your heart races and you desperately dread the ensuing interaction. Police still hide in bushes to hand out speeding tickets that are 3 miles over the limit.  They drive menacing vehicles, wear armor and are armed to the gills.  The term 'police state' is starting to appear too close to reality.  They will vote en bloc for the candidates their union supports.  They are the only empowered group allowed to shoot 1st and answer questions later.  And they are not recruited from the best of the best.  

 

So yeah - I conduct myself with the utmost care when dealing with police (whether I call them or not).  And usually the interaction is not a fond memory and too often it has been a real pathetic disappointment.

So many comments can be made to this non sense that I elect to keep to myself or most probably have the discussion closed.

But quickly, I bet your heart will be racing much faster when the violence is directed toward you or your family and LE can't get to you fast enough. Bet you don't care if they call for back-up then, as long as they arrive in time to hopefully ward off your situation as you piss your pants.

 

Here's a tougher question: Ask your son how many officers in his own department worry him?  Ask if there are any officers that he feels should be removed from duty immediately?  I am not questioning his integrity nor the very difficult purpose of police duties.  But there are rotten apples out there making HIM look bad.  Would you rather I lie and paint a nice rosy picture.  He needs to know the truth however hard it may be to swallow.  It is for his own safety.

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The advice to turn on your interior lights as soon as you stop is good.  When a cop approaches a dark car at night, he has no idea who or what is in the car and is understandably nervous.  If he can see into the interior, it relaxes him a bit (unless your car is full of big tattooed bikers, of course), and your interaction may go better.

 

Turning off the engine is a very obvious and correct thing to do.

 

Also, whenever you're dealing with an armed person who has the law on his side, like a customs agent or a cop, it's best to be polite, don't argue, and don't even speak needlessly.  If he's having a bad day, you may be the unlucky one he'd like to act out on, so don't give him any excuse, even if you feel embarrassed or offended right then.  The time to complain, if necessary, is later.

 

What you drive and how you're dressed makes a difference.  Over the years, I've been stopped numerous times, nearly always for speeding.  The one time that I happened to be wearing a suit and tie, rather than my usual jeans and polo shirt or T-shirt, the cop's reaction was easy to see.  When he came to my window and saw what I was wearing, he almost stepped back, and he was surprisingly polite.  My clothes, and the fact that I was driving a former police cruiser (they handle better than old Corvettes and they're much cheaper to buy and run) might have made him think I was a prosecutor or somehow connected to law enforcement.  I'm not positive now, but that might have been one of the times I was let off with a warning.

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I believe my last official interaction with law enforcement (remember, my son's a cop :) ) was somewhere in the last decade of the last century, about 1993 if memory serves.

 

I have this crazy idea of avoiding law enforcement by doing crazy things like driving the speed limit, respecting the rights of others, refraining from drive-by shootings, not knocking over the 7-11 when I need money, that sort of thing.

 

I do admit to having called a trooper "officer" before.

 

Don't hate me.

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People of color, especially those that live in rough neighborhoods, are treated terribly. This is a well known and established fact.

I do believe it's important to be polite, but I'm not a big fan of sucking up, or being expected to worship the uniform or the person wearing it.

If you live in a high crime area with a high percentage of minorities, you should consider getting a standard ID for your wallet. Take your driver's license, registration, and CCL (if you have one) - and drop all of the paperwork into a zip lock bag. Take the bag, and secure it to the backside of your visor. A hand or two reaching "up" is infinitely safer than a hand dropping down into the back of your pants, or reaching into the glovebox. This is both good for them - and you.

If you have a firearm, communicate this immediately, and as has been pointed out, keep both hands on the wheel.

Repeat all requests back to the Officer or Trooper, and inform them regarding any movements you are about to make.

I personally don't think police are as well trained as they were in the past. A person shouldn't have to be half terrified when a cop pulls in behind them.

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To avoid possible injury I always run when stopped by police. Sometimes I don't even stop the stolen car I'm driving before I leap from it. If caught I don't give any information other than to say 'what I did, what I did?'.

Keith

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Depending on which community you live in, avoid the police at all cost or be polite.  The public has to assume that all police are not good and a police stop for any reason could result in death no matter how small the said infraction.  It's a scary society that we maneuver thru in the land of freedom and the pursuit of happiness.

 

We criticize other nations for excessive police force against it citizens.  Who are we to talk.  Maybe we should  speak more softly around the world.  There was a country the other day that warned it's citizens coming to the US to be extremely careful around police.  Are we suppose for fear the police or see them as a positive aspect of our society-the line is getting greyer everyday.

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Oh. More advice: When addressing a trooper, don't refer to him/her as "officer."

 

What's the recommended form of address?  "Sir" or "Madam"?

 

 

I would never in my life call an officer "Sir". They are public servants who serve YOU the citizen. Saying 'sir' implies they have a status or position that is above yourself which is not how our Republic operates.

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The public has to assume that all police are not good and a police stop for any reason could result in death no matter how small the said infraction.

The police has to assume that all public are not good and a public stop for any reason could result in death no matter how small the said infraction.

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Oh. More advice: When addressing a trooper, don't refer to him/her as "officer."

 

What's the recommended form of address?  "Sir" or "Madam"?

 

I would never in my life call an officer "Sir". They are public servants who serve YOU the citizen. Saying 'sir' implies they have a status or position that is above yourself which is not how our Republic operates.

Maybe the salutation is used in a manner that addresses the position that has chosen to enforce laws that are designed to protect us rather than the person him/herself. The word could be used as a simple sign of respect, that which many seem to demand from the officers.

Keith

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The public has to assume that all police are not good and a police stop for any reason could result in death no matter how small the said infraction.

The police has to assume that all public are not good and a public stop for any reason could result in death no matter how small the said infraction.

 

 

I wonder if that guy in Minneapolis would still be alive today if he didn't have a gun. After all, they just got stopped because their taillight was out.

 

{Note: a lot of unanswered questions in that event, but...} 

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