JJkizak Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 (edited) Describe what sounds/distortions you hear/don't hear when the bitrate is too low. JJK Edited July 22, 2016 by JJKIZAK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 I'm horrible at describing sounds but I sense a real lack of detail when that occurs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivervalleymgb Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 (edited) I had to sell a pair of JBL 4411 and Altec Lansing 9842D to help finance the AC/gas furnace combo. Still need to sell a car and maybe some other speaks to finish paying for it. Thought about my La Scala, but I just don't want to really sell them. Good thing I didn't list them since Judy says "no way"! I guess I could sell a pair of Epic CF-2. I listed several vintage receivers, and a linear TT, but in this area, not many people want to buy vintage stuff. I do have a couple of Technics SP-25 and a pair of Russco Studio Pro B I could part with. All the receivers were gone through by Paul79. Oh well, I need to thin my collection, I just don't like going the ePrey route. The people in this area that are into vintage gear want a $500 receiver for $20. Edited July 22, 2016 by Rivervalleymgb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twk123 Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 For me the music just sounds flat and lifeless instead of rich and full. My ears also start to fatigue and I can almost feel them "close" if the sound is bad. I am not sure how to better describe it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 I had to sell a pair of JBL 4411 and Altec Lansing 9842D to help finance the AC/gas furnace combo. Still need to sell a car and maybe some other speaks to finish paying for it. Thought about my La Scala, but I just don't want to really sell them. Good thing I didn't list them since Judy says "no way"! I guess I could sell a pair of Epic CF-2. I listed several vintage receivers, and a linear TT, but in this area, not many people want to buy vintage stuff. I do have a couple of Technics SP-25 and a pair of Russco Studio Pro B I could part with. All the receivers were gone through by Paul79. Oh well, I need to thin my collection, I just don't like going the ePrey route. The people in this area that are into vintage gear want a $500 receiver for $20. Right thread? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiet_Hollow Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 The only time I've experienced a direct relationship to bit rate (as distinguished here from sample depth) and perceived quality in practice is when listening to (or watching for that matter) anything that employs a compression algorithm. As such, the result has always been the same...a comparative loss of spatial separation and increased high frequency noise/harshness "grit" that ultimately induces listening fatigue and/or limits satisfactory playback volume. Examples of offenders I've found to be include Dolby AC3, DTS, MPEG-1,2,&3, and the cell phone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 Good ears aren't a requirement to hear it either. All you have to do is listen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattSER Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 To me, low bitrates affect sounds farther out in the soundstage more than those in the center. I listen to a lot of rock, and the full, wide-field stereo guitar sound is affected the most. It literally becomes garbled and wobbly sounding. Sometimes almost like it's underwater. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJkizak Posted July 22, 2016 Author Share Posted July 22, 2016 The only time I've experienced a direct relationship to bit rate (as distinguished here from sample depth) and perceived quality in practice is when listening to (or watching for that matter) anything that employs a compression algorithm. As such, the result has always been the same...a comparative loss of spatial separation and increased high frequency noise/harshness "grit" that ultimately induces listening fatigue and/or limits satisfactory playback volume. Examples of offenders I've found to be include Dolby AC3, DTS, MPEG-1,2,&3, and the cell phone. I get this on some HD FM stations (not fading) and only some tracks. It's like anything with wind/voices involved. JJK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 (edited) With low bit rate I have a hard time hearing speech in particular. It takes effort to understand the words. It's easy to test. Pick something on Youtube with good bit rate at 480 or higher, then use the Settings to lower the bit rate. You won't hear much difference between 480, 720 and 1020. The 360 is a little blurry and you can definitely hear poor quality at 240. The 144 is not very good. Use this vid and set it at 144. You will see the vid get blurry. Then on-the-fly set it to 1080 and you will see the picture sharpen up. That is a visual representation of what I hear. Edited July 22, 2016 by wvu80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 See http://productionadvice.co.uk/why-mp3-sounds-bad/ Ian Shepard is the prime figure in the creation of the DR Dynamic Range Database. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebes Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 I sometimes find that I'm somewhat lazy when it comes to flipping the record over to the "B" side. This pause between sides has sometimes affected my mood and it can take me seconds, if not longer, to re-absorb myself in the music. This real-world lag is, of course, not dependent upon the vagaries of the digital world ,and it's piss poor attempts at sonic reproduction. I keep thinking I should retain a butler to be there for me when a side needs flipping, but then I forget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seadog Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 Low bitrate = flat and thin sound to my ears. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 The musical enjoyment is lost is the best way I can describe it. Frequency sounds are distorted like they are oscillating/fluctuating. Of course clean bass is no longer intelligible and highs are very uncomfortable, especially on Klipsch. I can listen to 320 and be very happy. All bits may not be =, but I'm no professor. I listen to 'classic deep cuts.com' at 128 its very enjoyable. Some others are terrible at 128. I consider 320 my standard and it's great at work, camping, boating, biking etc.... When I listen critically Only the disc really satisfies. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZEUS121996 Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 What would Van Gogh think? Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 (edited) I am not sure what is specifically related to bitrate, but lessor qualities of digital media yield a flattening of the image... spatial qualities diminish and separation suffers greatly. The "wall of sound" quality takes over as dynamic range is compromised. Music can get quite fatigued and very shouty. The music/instruments might still have fairly good detail, but it also has distinct granularity and lacks liquidity or smoothness to its texture. That being said, manytimes this difference is only apparent and really comes into focus when immediately A/B'ing a good set up with a bad one. Edited July 23, 2016 by Schu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 The people in this area that are into vintage gear want a $500 receiver for $20. Some of us aren't that cheap. I'll give you twice that... Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 I just noticed something... its bit depth and sample rate. Like an XY plot of resolution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chriswhotakesphotos Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 Lower bit rates sound bright to me. It makes sense, you're essentially chopping off from the top when you lower the bitrate, which means you're left with frequencies that don't sound good all on their own. I notice it most with big band or other instrumentals; dynamic sections lose punch or busy sections tend to mesh together instead of sounding like a whole band. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 (edited) Shallow sounds, no deep bass or sparkly highs, strong on the high midrange like you're listening to an cheap radio on a cheap full range speaker, basically zero coloration. I experience it sometimes at home if my internet connection is slow, it will play a song for 15 seconds with a low bit rate then will unleash with the real deal after it catches up, it's like somebody turned on the loudness button. Almost like this video from 1:43 to 2:10 although this is a little exaggerated. They are trying to mimic what a record would sound like but take the popping/static away and it's not THAT dissimilar. Watch before and after that point. Edited August 1, 2016 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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