New LaScala drivers and horns compatible with vintage?

[jimjimbo]

6 minutes ago, AHall said:

Tightness, clarity, impact, and low distortion are top priority. I could care less about losing a little low end extension.

Well there you go.  

[PrestonTom]

19 minutes ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

Meanwhile, Jim and I will rely on my countless hornresp models and measurements, listening sessions, the success of my DIY Quarter Pie Horn world wide, and the many LaScala and Cornwall modders who have used the 15C successfully and PM me about how great it was. What specifically have you done to merit the OP's attention??

You are correct Claude. What do I know?

I have some background in the area, and I will leave it at that.  If you folks are happy, then more power to you! However, if you are talking about designing a system, then maybe some of you have some homework to do. 

[JohnKuthe]

57 minutes ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

Not bad, just better with Jim's recipe. Guaranteed!

I opted for Bob Crites replacement La Scala Balancing Networks Type AA and they DO sound slightly better!

Makes me think about updating the crossovers in my Heresys, as well as cutting 3/4 ply backs for them! An easy performance enhancing mod!

John Kuthe...

[jimjimbo]

55 minutes ago, PrestonTom said:

However, if you are talking about designing a system, then maybe some of you have some homework to do. 

Tom, nobody said anything about designing a system.  And again, the delta between a spec driven system, and I have listened to it, tweaked it, and it's great system (to me) is huge.  You should know that, yes?

[ClaudeJ1]

2 hours ago, PrestonTom said:

You are correct Claude. What do I know?

I have some background in the area, and I will leave it at that.  If you folks are happy, then more power to you! However, if you are talking about designing a system, then maybe some of you have some homework to do. 

Maybe you are right. I'd like to see your homework published here too, like I have, before you give anyone else advice and basically saying "I know something you don't know," while implying others are wrong or ignorant. Just sayin'. In God we trust, all others should provide data before opinion.

[ClaudeJ1]

2 hours ago, jimjimbo said:

Yea, what he said.....Although, I'm not sure about that world wide success thingie....

California, Indiana, Ohio, Poland, Tasmania, Australia. Geographical spread does not necessarily imply volume, but it's not a lie. So many are reluctant to build horns as big as they need to be, except for DaveA, who also builds great Tweeter Lenses. Besides, I have moved so far beyond all this crap anyhow, I'm starting not to give a damn anymore, almost like "Pearls before Swines."

[JohnA]

9 hours ago, Heritage_Head said:

The xo points are different. The mid horn is pushed to the 6k range on the older ls to protect the k77. And what I've been told stresses the k55. The ls2 xo is 4500 and the new k77 is better suitable to handle this. This is how Bob and jason str explained it to me. 

....................

 

No undue stress caused by the 6k crossover.  The collapsing vertical dispersion of the K-400 helps the K-55-V respond to 6k,  but barely.  The early K-55-V and the late K-55-X really don't quite get to 6k.  After seeing one or 6 in Hope,  I doubt the latest K-77-F/D? Can handle 4500 Hz better than the -M, but the steep crossover slope protects it better.  Remember, the K-77s were rated to 3500 Hz by E-V. 

[Heritage_Head]

19 minutes ago, JohnA said:

 

No undue stress caused by the 6k crossover.  The collapsing vertical dispersion of the K-400 helps the K-55-V respond to 6k,  but barely.  The early K-55-V and the late K-55-X really don't quite get to 6k.  After seeing one or 6 in Hope,  I doubt the latest K-77-F/D? Can handle 4500 Hz better than the -M, but the steep crossover slope protects it better.  Remember, the K-77s were rated to 3500 Hz by E-V. 

Good info thanks

I could have misunderstood what I'm reading (I seem to do that a lot reading about this type of thing still). So do you think Bob is wrong to say the lower xo helps the k55 sound better? Would love your take. Also do you think the AA are a better match still than bobs A/4500 design?  

[karlson3]

for horns  -  Danley and his MEH provided one of the best leaps in SQ.  For the capable DIYer and amplifier above flea power, that's one way to go.  (is there a good and available substitute for the little MISCO sealed back mids ?)

[Dave A]

3 hours ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

California, Indiana, Ohio, Poland, Tasmania, Australia. Geographical spread does not necessarily imply volume, but it's not a lie. So many are reluctant to build horns as big as they need to be, except for DaveA, who also builds great Tweeter Lenses. Besides, I have moved so far beyond all this crap anyhow, I'm starting not to give a damn anymore, almost like "Pearls before Swines."

Yes and add Tennessee to the world wide list. Really loving these S-MWM's and it is quite amusing to watch people who hear them for the first time. Thanks for your qualified help on everything.

[glens]

What have you got for response measurements so far, Dave?

[Dave A]

2 hours ago, glens said:

What have you got for response measurements so far, Dave?

Sadly nothing.  Claude and I are both suddenly very busy so I have just loafed along with what I have for now and not done anything more. I will get around to it some day soon perhaps.

[Jvitti1970]

@jimjimbo  I am seeking the ultimate recipe of goodness for my '76 LS.

They presently sound pretty good but at 43 yrs old I'm sure I can make them even better!!

[jimjimbo]

4 minutes ago, Jvitti1970 said:

@jimjimbo  I am seeking the ultimate recipe of goodness for my '76 LS.

They presently sound pretty good but at 43 yrs old I'm sure I can make them even better!!

 The recipe was previously posted in this thread… 

[DeanG Crossovers]

15 hours ago, Heritage_Head said:

I could have misunderstood what I'm reading (I seem to do that a lot reading about this type of thing still). So do you think Bob is wrong to say the lower xo helps the k55 sound better? Would love your take. Also do you think the AA are a better match still than bobs A/4500 design?  

 

The one piece phase plug K-55 is pretty much out of gas at 4.5kHz. The K-400 puts enough squeeze on the signal to get it to 6kHz. With a better tweeter like the de-120, you can lower the crossover point, and get the K-55 operating in the area it was designed to run. It also unloads some energy off of the K-400, which helps it not go into distress at live listening levels. The downside is the sound becomes a bit tweeter heavy - the tweeter often seems to dominate the sonic signature. Some like it and some don't - it's completely subjective. On paper it makes sense. In practical usage - it's hit or miss. 

 

This is in the context of a first order filter, not with the steeper slopes that Roy is using. 

 

A better solution is to run the the two piece phase plug version of the K-55 (or A-55-G), and the AA. At least, this is what I prefer. 

[jimjimbo]

10 minutes ago, Deang said:

A better solution is to run the the two piece phase plug version of the K-55 (or A-55-G), and the AA. At least, this is what I prefer. 

Agreed

[Heritage_Head]

1 hour ago, Deang said:

 

The one piece phase plug K-55 is pretty much out of gas at 4.5kHz. The K-400 puts enough squeeze on the signal to get it to 6kHz. With a better tweeter like the de-120, you can lower the crossover point, and get the K-55 operating in the area it was designed to run. It also unloads some energy off of the K-400, which helps it not go into distress at live listening levels. The downside is the sound becomes a bit tweeter heavy - the tweeter often seems to dominate the sonic signature. Some like it and some don't - it's completely subjective. On paper it makes sense. In practical usage - it's hit or miss. 

 

This is in the context of a first order filter, not with the steeper slopes that Roy is using. 

 

A better solution is to run the the two piece phase plug version of the K-55 (or A-55-G), and the AA. At least, this is what I prefer. 

Wow Dean I understood a lot of that (I think😊).... I don't normally understand a lot your posts. Its like your speaking Japanese sometimes (no offense). I sometimes spend the next hour reading what the heck is that...

 

So obviously its a taste thing I get. But you think changing to one of those 55s at a 6k xo (AA) is a better direction than even with the new ls2 being xo at 4500h? Are the new ls2 In your opinion tweeter heavy? Have you had personal experience with Bobs A/4500 with all stock ls1 but with the 125/120 tweets?

 

The part you say "tweeter heavy" Really scares me. My personal taste is the middle (voice) Its the biggest reason I bought the ls1. I have no interest whats so ever in taming that. 

 

Sorry for all the ? marks 👍

 

 

 

 

[geoff.]

On 6/19/2019 at 3:13 PM, jimjimbo said:

I think I may have mentioned this about 2 thousand times previously, but, get the CT120 and A55G from Crites, and get the Eminence Kappa 15C woofer from Parts Express.  Wrap the mid horn in Dynamat, change out the old caps in the networks, and Voila!

 

 

The first thing I experimented with in my ‘92 LaScalas, based on the experiences of other forum members, was the Kappa 15C.

 

If I had to sum the immediately noticeable effect up in one word without hyperbole it would be “supercharged”.

 

“Bionic” just came to mind too, lol.

 

Everything you have read about this woofer is true.

 

 

[geoff.]

2 hours ago, Deang said:

 

The one piece phase plug K-55 is pretty much out of gas at 4.5kHz. The K-400 puts enough squeeze on the signal to get it to 6kHz. With a better tweeter like the de-120, you can lower the crossover point, and get the K-55 operating in the area it was designed to run. It also unloads some energy off of the K-400, which helps it not go into distress at live listening levels. The downside is the sound becomes a bit tweeter heavy - the tweeter often seems to dominate the sonic signature. Some like it and some don't - it's completely subjective. On paper it makes sense. In practical usage - it's hit or miss. 

 

This is in the context of a first order filter, not with the steeper slopes that Roy is using. 

 

A better solution is to run the the two piece phase plug version of the K-55 (or A-55-G), and the AA. At least, this is what I prefer. 

 

 

The next thing I tried in my LSI Splits was the A/4500 and CT-120 combo.

 

I thought they lost some of the trademark forward signature, but was astonished by the clarity at higher volumes.

 

If I had to sum it up in one word it would be “refined”.

 

Tweeter heavy is an interesting take on it... the mids are less prevalent.

 

 

[jimjimbo]

My splits have K43's, but I rebuilt the networks with some really nice caps.  I did install the CT120 and A55G in them, and they rock.  Currently running a restored Fisher 500C with the splits and a pair of Heresy Industrials at the same time, and it is magic.  Have had several folks comment that they thought it was my best overall sounding system, and sometimes depending on my mood, I would agree.....