2023 Subfest (A Bonehead Class) Reports, Photos, Etc.

[JohnA]

4 hours ago, Schu said:

So that's a NO on having the ability to daisy chain the subs straight from the factory if someone wanted to line array them CB?

 

 

Line Array?  Do you mean stacking?  I don't think that would be needed from a performance point of view.  Yes, the mouths are small, but a larger mouth or longer horn is apparently not needed to get lower frequency output.  These are kinda odd beasts from the way the ports and short horn interact. 

 

I can't imagine why you could not parallel 2 or 3 on one sub out connector, whether they had a pass through or not. I use these to parallel 2 sub's on each sub out.  Is that what you're asking?

 

[Islander]

On 11/16/2023 at 5:05 PM, OO1 said:

   factor in a cabinet   + plate  amp + DSP    4000$  would not be out of line for the  smallest unit  ,  

 

Wouldn't that omit or at least minimize the R&D costs, including building and rejecting early prototypes?  Also, these subs, particularly the two larger ones, will likely be produced in the hundreds, not the thousands or even ten thousands of some very popular subs.

[ClaudeJ1]

On 11/18/2023 at 1:10 PM, Dave1291 said:

Agree totally @mikebse2a3.  The  R&D of great things like this take some time.  We  all should just sit back and wait while things marinate just a bit more.  We're blessed to know it's coming down the road.  Simple.  

 

I've gotta get started working on a name too.       😂💪

Sez the guy who was on my porch shaking his head in disbelief after experiencing my horn subs several Augusts ago, and controlling the remote volume while in the room! LOL.

[OO1]

3 hours ago, Islander said:

 

Wouldn't that omit or at least minimize the R&D costs, including building and rejecting early prototypes?  Also, these subs, particularly the two larger ones, may be produced in the hundreds, not the thousands or even ten thousands of some very popular subs.

 

the reality for 2023 are high energy + high interest rates + high labor costs + shortages in the supply chain + staff shortages + regular price increases for materials + high  R&D costs   , based on the uncertainty   , the R&D costs will most likely be even higher in 2024    . 

 

[ClaudeJ1]

On 11/16/2023 at 7:45 PM, JohnA said:

I think the Medium is not as large as you think.  If I remove the 4 VMPS Larger Sub's,

I had those subs behind my MWMs running the LFE channel in 2007. Glad to see Klipsch finally offering HORN LOADED subs to the others out there. Something I did for myself over 13 years ago, so I agree with the positive responses.

[Chief bonehead]

2 minutes ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

I had those subs behind my MWMs running the LFE channel in 2007. Glad to see Klipsch finally offering HORN LOADED subs to the other out there. Something I did over 13 years ago.

It it wasn’t for you Claude I don’t know where Klipsch would be…..amazing. 

[JohnA]

Except that oil prices are lower and interest rates are falling and your wild speculation is way off base. 

[Chief bonehead]

47 minutes ago, OO1 said:

 

the reality for  2023   are high  energy + high  interest rates + high labor  costs  + shortages in the supply chain  + staff shortages + regular price increases for materials +  high  R&D costs   , based on the uncertainty   , the  R&D  costs will most likely be even higher in 2024  . 

 

R&D costs higher in 2024?  Maybe my guys and I will get a raise in 2024!!!  

[OO1]

 You all deserve a raise  ,  the ongoing work by the klipsch Engineering Dept is impressive  

[ClaudeJ1]

On 11/19/2023 at 3:22 PM, Chief bonehead said:

It it wasn’t for you Claude I don’t know where Klipsch would be…..amazing. 

You are too funny. Love the attitude, Chief. Great comments.

 

DIY Amateurs like me are much faster than people who have to do it for a living at adopting old or new designs and concepts, like having horn loaded bass below 40-100 Hz.cutoffs of Main speakers, stretching down to 16-70 Hz. range.

 

Creating and selling the concept of low distortion sub bass can only be done in a Demonstration. A picture may be worth a thousand words (I've done millions of pictures too), but nothing beats Live, 3D, and in Color Audio Demos to willing ears. People literally have to FEEL it.

 

Lots of bassheads out there, but most would never do it with a horn like you have done for quite a while. They have mostly done bass reflex only, ant NOT horns with it.

 

How small you have managed to make these is quite a feat of engineering. Glad to see you are showing off the "kids."

 

I wasn't trying to make any claims at doing it sooner than Klipsch (and you know that), I was speaking of my early adoption of horn sub bass below my all horn systems and having discovered it's benefits vs. the bass reflex units I had behind my MWMs in 2007 after I was influenced by you like the others here to sell off my 30 year old Khorns and get with the PRO stuff instead. The idea of upgrading to horn subs for JohnA just got a thumbs up from me, which was my intent, without have to make another trip to Hope (efficiency of travel budget?), since I had the same vmps subs as my very first pair to experience HT in it's relative infancy.

 

Rock on my brutha from a different mutha (in my best Detroit vernacular).

 

 

[Samigh1943]

"Yep, Roy used a tool in the demo! It was kinda crowded and complex, but all the subs did well with the sounds - separating kicks, plucks, and whacks. When those La Scalas joined with their horn-loaded bass, they stood out big time. They don't sound like regular subwoofers, not one bit. You can usually spot a DR subwoofer in a system by 'that sound' it makes. These guys really got guts! Seems pretty analog, if Ray's on the money."

[Dave1291]

20 hours ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

Sez the guy who was on my porch shaking in disbelief after experiencing my horn subs several Augusts ago, and controlling the remote volume while in the room! LOL.

Well, I wasn't really shaking in disbelief but I will openly admit I'd had enough and NEEDED a smoke at that ;point in time!  lol  Well, on second thought, kinda maybe.  Leaning on that wall talking to Neil and getting that full back massage didn't help things.  Thanks again!  💪  😂

[Islander]

On 11/19/2023 at 12:11 PM, OO1 said:

 

the reality for 2023 are high energy + high interest rates + high labor costs + shortages in the supply chain + staff shortages + regular price increases for materials + high  R&D costs   , based on the uncertainty   , the R&D costs will most likely be even higher in 2024    . 

 

 

I think my comment may have been a bit ambiguous.  When I said "omit", I meant "overlook", in the sense of "that price estimate might be overlooking the costs of R&D", suggesting that the final costs of the members of the new horn sub family might have to be higher than your estimate.  

 

Of course, these are all guesses.  Even Roy, who knows the actual numbers involved, probably won't know the final costs, and thus prices, until next year.  I guess.

[Schu]

On 11/18/2023 at 11:31 PM, JohnA said:

 

 

Line Array?  Do you mean stacking?  I don't think that would be needed from a performance point of view.  Yes, the mouths are small, but a larger mouth or longer horn is apparently not needed to get lower frequency output.  These are kinda odd beasts from the way the ports and short horn interact. 

 

I can't imagine why you could not parallel 2 or 3 on one sub out connector, whether they had a pass through or not. I use these to parallel 2 sub's on each sub out.  Is that what you're asking?

 

 

I am not really interested in whether or not some users think that using an array is 'needed'... I can make that determination myself.

 

Setting up an array can take many different forms... stacking being only one of the most very basic.

 

As the question reads as, is there going to be any factory support for it right out of the box without having to use an adapter. some manufacturers do, and some do not. I am getting the notion that Klipsch will not.

 

[OO1]

 the Chief said it could be done , but  how  ?  may still  be a secret    

[ClaudeJ1]

On 11/20/2023 at 2:03 AM, Samigh1943 said:

"Yep, Roy used a tool in the demo! It was kinda crowded and complex, but all the subs did well with the sounds - separating kicks, plucks, and whacks. When those La Scalas joined with their horn-loaded bass, they stood out big time. They don't sound like regular subwoofers, not one bit. You can usually spot a DR subwoofer in a system by 'that sound' it makes. These guys really got guts! Seems pretty analog, if Ray's on the money."

Yes, it's called "double digit distortion," of the gross harmonic type from a direct radiating device.

 

Although subs, in general, do avoid the nastier Intermodulation Distortion, because they take the load off the woofer section of the full range speaker in the band where it would Create the most of it.

For the identification thereof, Paul Klipsch received the Silver Medal of Honor from the Audio Engineering Society. I was a member in my 20's, influenced by PWK when I bought the "Klipsch Papers" and read them all in the 1970's. He autographed them for me and made some hand written notes in them. I treasure those papers to this day. It's one of the best speeches I ever read, when he received the award and I was still a member, to read it.

 

Going through a horn, you are using it as an "acoustic impedance transformer" from high to the LOW Impedance of Air.

 

Something I expressed to Paul Klipsch and Jim Hunter (1985). However, they both told me that using that terminology would be lost on the average consumer. They were correct. However, using it here should work out just fine to my fellow Klipsheads!

 

This is something Roy has obviously mastered, and IMPROVED, via the tutelage of Paul Klipsch, and the practice thereof, going on 37 years. Positive vibrations and much success to Roy and his team.

 

 

[Ponch0069]

Any speculation on what’s going on behind the “Blacked Out” high/mid upper section of the La Scala’s in the demo photo? I’m going to quess that the high and mid compression drivers are going to be replaced with a 4 to 6 inch single horn making the new La Scala’s a two way horn speaker. 

[JohnA]

17 hours ago, Ponch0069 said:

Any speculation on what’s going on behind the “Blacked Out” high/mid upper section of the La Scala’s in the demo photo? I’m going to quess that the high and mid compression drivers are going to be replaced with a 4 to 6 inch single horn making the new La Scala’s a two way horn speaker. 

 

No speculation whatsoever!

[Flevoman]

It's quite likely that I'm asking this question way too early, and it may not be answerable yet. But I'll give it a shot 😉.

 

The La Scala AL-5 with the horn sub, let's say size 3, will it sound equivalent to the Klipschorn? Or might this combination possibly even sound a bit better than the Klipschorn? Both have the same midhorn and tweeter, but now the mid and high frequencies are at ear level, while the low is projected directly at the listening position, and without the timedelay that the Klipschorn seems to have. Or is this wishful thinking, and the Klipschorn will always sound different (better).

[Khornukopia]

12 hours ago, Flevoman said:

... will it sound equivalent to the ...

Every room has its own acoustic signature, so it could be one model or the other depending on several factors. I have a fondness for the Klipschorns in my space, but I also think that adding a horn subwoofer to a set of La Scala IIs would be a fantastic system with more bass extension, plus you get placement and toe-in flexibility.

 

Seeing that you have the La Scala II, the new Klipsch horn sub is easily the best way to get maximum performance.