Lascala cabinet resonance

[Woofers and Tweeters]

On 8/24/2021 at 12:36 AM, OO1 said:

Adding the 1/4 inch to the side wall eliminates the resonance , without the need of braces , and braces are also real ugly , they make  a Lascala look like a Peavey cab , so no wonder Klipsch avoided the idea all together-

 

in the 80's and 90's , on the Lascala Industrial rounded corner cabs , klipsch switched to a plywood that was slightly thicker than 3/4 inches and that eliminated the perceived resonance  , so  a stiffer cab , they now use 1 inch MDF , with 0 issues -

This ^^^ is what you said in August 2021.

Now you are saying that there isn't any resonance. 

On 12/16/2023 at 8:00 AM, OO1 said:

who cares about the Korner or AK   

 

  On 12/16/2023 at 6:46 AM, Flevoman said:

 is there resonance 

On 12/16/2023 at 8:01 AM, OO1 said:

No

 

On 12/16/2023 at 6:31 PM, OO1 said:

I fail to see what AK has to do with LS1 resonance  ,   and the question was not in any way restrictive , 

On 12/16/2023 at 6:31 PM, OO1 said:

I fail to see what AK has to do with LS1 resonance  ,   and the question was not in any way restrictive , 

 

[Woofers and Tweeters]

On 12/16/2023 at 6:46 AM, Flevoman said:

I'm currently pondering the best approach to address my issue.

There have been several threads about this. Here are a couple to get you started. 
 

 

 

[OO1]

 hit the ignore button  

[Shakeydeal]

9 hours ago, OO1 said:

 hit the ignore button  

 

So someone calls you out on your BS and you go straight to the ignore button?

 

Rich.....

[Woofers and Tweeters]

On 12/23/2023 at 11:52 PM, the real Duke Spinner said:

Damping Factor I'd an interesting chase Many of my Crown amplifiers I e. studio Reference have a damping Factor of 4000 or so

They can sound very dry.

Back when I was chasing the numbers thinking there had to be a pattern, I read that overdamping could do exactly what you're saying.  

 

On 12/24/2023 at 1:04 PM, Flevoman said:

OK, I'm a bit confused now... 

So what is better, a high or a low damping factor? 

 This morning, I talked with a friend about which vintage receivers and amps were supposed to be the best. I sent him a few forum threads and a list of what I like. I used to look for a wide spectrum on the Hz, high DF, and low THD, but everything I read said to stop all that and trust my ears (plus others' advice, such as the HK Twins). Here are a few I sent so you can see that the specs are all over the place, yet these are sought after for their quality of sound. 

https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/mcintosh/mc30.shtml

https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/yamaha/cr-2040.shtml

https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/sansui/g-9000.shtml

https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/pioneer/sx-1250.shtml

https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/pioneer/sx-1010.shtml

https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/harman-kardon/730.shtml

And last but not least (and one I wish I could enjoy for a while)
https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/concept/165.shtml

Even though we should trust our ears, they are easily tricked. I can hear when something sounds bad, but I second guess if it sounds like it is supposed to. 
I only trust my ears when ABing whatever I think sounds good.
 

[OO1]

 

  1 inch MDF with the AL-5 = 0 resonance , klipsch can back it up 100% , no BS 

-  if you have a lousy room or a lousy recording , dont blame the LS-AL-5 -LSI  , blame yourself  for using a crappy sound track in a lousy room using top of the line klipsch speakers 

 

 

[Ceptorman]

The lord has spoken.....🤔

[Woofers and Tweeters]

On 12/16/2023 at 8:00 AM, OO1 said:

who cares about the Korner or AK   

 

On 12/16/2023 at 8:01 AM, OO1 said:

No

 

On 12/16/2023 at 6:31 PM, OO1 said:

I fail to see what AK has to do with LS1 resonance  ,   and the question was not in any way restrictive , 

 

On 12/17/2023 at 2:01 PM, OO1 said:

  klipsch engineering had nothing to do with it  ,  <snip>

 

On 12/17/2023 at 3:14 PM, OO1 said:

<snip> thicker panels must be all around including the panels of the dog house  in order to tame the resonance from the top+ bottom + the sides +the dog house , 2 horizontal braces cant replace all these panels  without causing unwanted reflections . 

 

On 12/17/2023 at 8:23 PM, OO1 said:

total BS   there were no serious issues with resonance from the LS cabs<snip>

 

more BS   there was no problems either with the 1/2 inch  Heresy 1 or Cornwall 1 rear panels  or there would have been thousands of threads on the subject over the years   , I also own the Heresy- Cornwall  with 0 problems .

 

On 12/17/2023 at 11:38 PM, OO1 said:

not so fast ,   one installs braces to tame resonance in the LS bass bin  , but ,  in reality the braces reduce the bass output of the LS bass bin    

 

On 12/19/2023 at 10:58 AM, OO1 said:

 the LS II and AL-5 bass bins have 0 resonance , I would defy anyone on the Klipsch Forum to prove the contrary with real data  , all this crap about Lascala resonance is pure BS from the Korner Audiokarma gang who's sole purpose is to denigrate klipsch Products  .

 

 

 

 

On 12/20/2023 at 10:41 AM, OO1 said:

 the Stereophile review is full of errors 

 

On 12/20/2023 at 12:35 PM, OO1 said:

 the fact that the AL-5 is heavy does not preclude that the testing and measurement methods are not to be compromised ,  the Author should have used a stand as a strict minimum  , or the results are flawed 

 

"  couldn't lift the La Scala off the floor onto a stand  "  now that's just too bad , either you do it right or your published results are inaccurate and worthless  ,  because had the Author used a stand , the results would have been very different .

 

On 12/24/2023 at 12:47 PM, OO1 said:

 

On 12/24/2023 at 1:15 PM, OO1 said:

high  

 

On 12/31/2023 at 9:47 AM, OO1 said:

 

 

11 hours ago, OO1 said:

 hit the ignore button  

Randy,

I am here to gain knowledge, help others, and enjoy what others share. Members using the ignore option would be very detrimental to others who are trying to gain facts. 

As with a lot of threads, you have a large number of posts, most of which are arguing and insulting many others who have, individually or combined, more experience and knowledge than me and or you... A lot of your entries contradict themselves (there is no resonance to how to fix the resonance) I was told that we have two ears, two eyes, and only one mouth, and it is not a mistake by God or Mother Nature. 

I learned a long time ago that:
1) I don't know it all and I learn from others if I listen

2) That I gain credibility when I admit when I am wrong (and sometimes that's not easy because I am not made of straw)

Happy New Year to you, hope you're doing well. 

[OO1]

 1 inch MDF  panels all around  is more than enough to eliminate any remote possibility of resonance from an AL-5 wood cabinet ,  this thread is about a bad recording with noise   the OP 's issue has nothing to do with the cabinet of the AL-5  ......0

[TasDom]

[richieb]

“Stupid is as stupid does”.

A quote I learned “from a friend” - 

[Ceptorman]

He is AI

[Invidiosulus]

This is a basic simulation of the LS bass horn in Hornresp.

 

The K33 is in light gray and I’ve plotted the exact same horn in black but substituted the driver specs for those of the Eminence Kappa 15C.

 

as you can see, both drivers show a peak in the 150Hz region with the 15C showing less of a drop in output.

You will also note that the 15C gives up a little on the low end to the K33.

 

Even if the sidewalls aren’t resonating(much) there is still going to be that peak in the response which will really honk if given the right(wrong) source material.

This peak in the 150Hz region is well documented, and even showed up in the  response curves from the stereophile review of the AL-5.

Before anybody has a chance to try to pretend that I’m making this up, and that the stereophile measurements aren’t valid(I’m looking at you @OO1 ), I would like to remind you that Roy himself posted the following EQ settings for use with the LS bass section when using an active DSP crossover.

 

87hz, Q:3.5, +5dB
148Hz, Q:8, -7dB
380Hz, Q:5.5, +2dB

 

I think it’s hard to realize what you are missing until you have a chance to hear the LS bass without that peak.

Edited January 2 by Invidiosulus
Spelling

[OO1]

22 hours ago, Invidiosulus said:

 

 

as you can see, both drivers show a peak in the 150Hz region with the 15C showing less of a drop in output.

 

  1 simulation cannot reflect all the Lascalas since 1963  , it's a bit more complicated than that   

 

 

 

 

 

[Woofers and Tweeters]

22 hours ago, Invidiosulus said:

This peak in the 150Hz region is well documented, and even showed up in the  response curves from the stereophile review of the AL-5.
Before anybody has a chance to try to pretend that I’m making this up, and that the stereophile measurements aren’t valid(I’m looking at you @OO1 ), I would like to remind you that Roy himself posted the following EQ settings for use with the LS bass section when using an active DSP crossover.

 

41 minutes ago, OO1 said:

  1 simulation cannot reflect all the Lascalas since 1963  , it's a bit more complicated than that   

How complicated is it? 

[babadono]

Issues? Yea I've got ISSUES

[billybob]

This resonates to satisfied...

[Schu]

On 1/2/2024 at 11:22 AM, Invidiosulus said:

This is a basic simulation of the LS bass horn in Hornresp.

 

The K33 is in light gray and I’ve plotted the exact same horn in black but substituted the driver specs for those of the Eminence Kappa 15C.

 

as you can see, both drivers show a peak in the 150Hz region with the 15C showing less of a drop in output.

You will also note that the 15C gives up a little on the low end to the K33.

 

Even if the sidewalls aren’t resonating(much) there is still going to be that peak in the response which will really honk if given the right(wrong) source material.

This peak in the 150Hz region is well documented, and even showed up in the  response curves from the stereophile review of the AL-5.

Before anybody has a chance to try to pretend that I’m making this up, and that the stereophile measurements aren’t valid(I’m looking at you @OO1 ), I would like to remind you that Roy himself posted the following EQ settings for use with the LS bass section when using an active DSP crossover.

 

87hz, Q:3.5, +5dB
148Hz, Q:8, -7dB
380Hz, Q:5.5, +2dB

 

I think it’s hard to realize what you are missing until you have a chance to hear the LS bass without that peak.

 

 

Simulations are WAY MORE important than 'in room response' hooey anyway...

[Flevoman]

May I make a suggestion?

And I don't want to play devil's advocate here, but what @OO1 is saying does make sense to some extent. My example of Cris Isaac for showing the resonance/thickening, however you want to call it, wasn't wisely chosen. Indeed, there was a noticeable thickening in that case, but in this example, it is indeed related to the recording itself.
I could clearly hear this in the CW4 as well. However, some songs that also exhibit this thickening on the AL-5 sounded fine on the CW4, with no sign of thickening. The LaScala clearly (for me) has audible thickening/resonances in certain songs.

I lack any form of expertise, but someone who tried to help me with what I occasionally hear in my sound gave the following response.
If this is indeed correct, then @OO1 is right in a way. The bump around 150Hz isn't resonating from the walls but due to the horn's properties. This would mean that @OO1 is correct in stating that the walls don't cause problematic resonance. But what many others are claiming here could also be true – that there is indeed a thickening around 150Hz, but it is caused by the properties of a horn.


" It’s in the bass cabinet/horn and I doubt reinforcing the cabinet walls would be a complete solution since I believe the “emphasis” is a combination of cabinet resonance and also the finite horn parameters of length and mouth size causing reflections/resonances. The design engineers try to minimize as much as possible these reflections/resonances but they are an inevitable part of real world horns we use."

[mikebse2a3]

First no one should be feeling defensive about this subject with the La Scala because we all know there is no perfect loudspeaker.

 

By discussing this aspect of the La Scala design everyone can benefit from how to minimize or compensate for the “emphasis” in the 120Hz-180Hz region of the La Scala to achieve the best sound possible in their system.

 

I really don’t see any need to debate the “emphasis” in the 120Hz-180Hz region (peak centered at 148Hz) if for no other reason than the fact that Roy provided the PEQ values to compensate for it.

 

It is clearly audible on some recordings as the examples that @Flevoman has given us and I can hear it maybe to a greater or lesser extent than he is experiencing but it is obviously there and if anyone who has the capability to implement the (PEQ of 148Hz, Q:8, -7db) they can prove it to themselves.

 

The recordings that @Flevoman provided as examples in this thread are really enjoyable when the “emphasis” is removed from the La Scala but borderline enjoyable for me if I don’t apply the correction (PEQ: 148Hz).

 

miketn