Lascala cabinet resonance

[JMeader]

Resonance can be a positive or negative. In my opinion the resonance in the older La Scala's was part of their LIVE Sound. 

 

I personally added 1/2 MDF to the side of my early  La Scala's and the resonance was gone and also that live sound was definitely impacted. To me the result was a more refined sound and lost the Public Address sound.

 

I would highly recommend listening to a more current La Scala Model with thicker side walls and then listen to yours. One is not better than the other but they are different.

 

Someone earlier recommended to open up the base bin and tighten all the screws on the woofer. Mine were less than tight when I did this not sure I heard that much difference but they should be tight not loose.

 

Remember this is Your System and in your Room and your the only one that needs to like its sound. The single biggest impact on the sound of my La Scala's was spending the time to properly locate your speakers  which include how high your tweeter is and weather your room wants any toe in. A simple laser measure tool from a local hardware store will help in this process especially with equal distance from side walls and to get the toe in pointing to the same location.

 

Enjoy the process and then enjoy the music

[Shakeydeal]

Quote

One is not better than the other but they are different.

 

I beg to differ on this. I've spent time with the earlier LS and I'd say the improvement wrought by the II version is not subtle. It sounds better in almost every aspect.

 

 

[OO1]

 the LS II and AL-5 bass bins have 0 resonance , I would defy anyone on the Klipsch Forum to prove the contrary with real data  , all this crap about Lascala resonance is pure BS from the Korner Audiokarma gang who's sole purpose is to denigrate klipsch Products  .

 

 

 

[TasDom]

🤣🤣🤣🤣

[TasDom]

16 minutes ago, OO1 said:

 the LS II and AL-5 bass bins have 0 resonance , I would defy anyone on the Klipsch Forum to prove the contrary with real data  , all this crap about Lascala  resonance is pure BS  from the Korner Audiokarma gang who's sole purpose is to denigrate klipsch Products  .

 

 

 

 

🤣

[billybob]

Dang... starting to resonate!

[JohnA]

On 12/16/2023 at 5:46 AM, Flevoman said:

I'm currently pondering the best approach to address my issue. It could be through a lengthy detailed text or perhaps a shortcut. I'll opt for the shortcut.

The LaScala 1 was known for its cabinet resonance. I believe this was addressed by placing a wedge in the bass cabinet to reduce the resonance. The LaScala II and the AL-5 have thicker walls. Is the general assumption that this completely eliminates the resonance? Or is there still some resonance present, and could, for example, a wedge in the bass cabinet still provide improvement?

 

I have 1980 LA Scala's.  It appears to me that the bass horn has 2 minor issues.  The similar Peavey FH-1s I owned and tested had a similar response rise between 100 and 200-ish Hz.  In addition, my La Scala's sidewalls will vibrate, but I didn't notice (and feel it) it until I played "I Don't Need No Doctor" at concert levels.  I'm sure I was peaking over 100 watts.  Later that session I lost 4 subwoofer drivers to heat!  At more sane levels, 100 dB and under, I don't hear or feel anything.  The AL-5 La Scalas can only be better, less resonant at high volumes. 

 

I got to spend 30+ minutes with them alone in a room at the KHMA at Subfest.  Even at quite loud levels, they were polished and refined and threw a stereo image that make mine envious.  Though instantly familiar, I did not notice the "resonance" at peaks easily approaching 100 dB. 

 

Bottom line, everything flexes, bends and resonates, but this is an overstated issue when the speakers are used at home and the resonance can be enjoyable on some music. 

[babadono]

12 hours ago, Flevoman said:

 I have no idea what you are talking about, sorry 😄

REW, sig, gen...what does these words mean? 

Sorry...I just assumed all in this hobby know about REW. A super awesome FREE tool. And again sorry with my 40+ years of electronics experience the abbreviation Sig Gen  is Signal Generator.

And yes if you are serious get a UMIK from the miniDSP folks. Relatively inexpensive as far as microphones go and calibrated for our measuring purposes and integrates simply and easily with REW.

[Marvel]

On 12/18/2023 at 6:35 AM, Invidiosulus said:

Typically when a material decreases in thickness the amplitude of the resonance will increase and the Q of the resonance will decrease.

So not only will the resonance be louder on the thinner piece, it will be resonating across a broader frequency.

Shortening the piece that resonates, i.e., putting a brace in place, will raise the frequency.  Depending on the material (3/4 inch ply or thicker mdf) it may not resonate at the higher frequency at all or the level (amount) of the resonance is lower and the issue is solved.

[KT88]

A subjective experience, just my 2 cent. Yes, an old La Scala 1 - as long as it is original and not sanded down like mine unfortunately is - may have resonances. But and assuming we are talking about living room SPL, even louder living room SPL, I have very fond memories of my unaltered LS1...in a very positive sense of resonance. A healthy LS1 resonates very quickly, in other words it doesn't store anything and it decays quickly. Somehow I have the feeling that the ratio of some resonance, the Q value and the corresponding width of the resonance intuitively gives a very pleasant and natural result. It may not always be an advantage with an electric bass tone in the 140 Hz range. But Dexter Gordon's tenor and a solo cello with a Bach suite are unbeatable. I wouldn't want to miss this subliminal and in no way disturbing resonance. The music breathes, is moving and stunningly alive.

 

For this reason I'm wondering whether braces that calm the sanded side walls are the right measure...if I would unfortunately eliminate this life elixir factor of the LS1 and also halve the resonance frequency by using braces, or whether it is better to simply glue approx. 1mm birch veneer back on them so that they become the way I love them again. This is all very subjective, others may want it as neutral and resonance-free as possible. I can only find the answer by trying it out.

 

[Dave MacKay]

6 hours ago, OO1 said:

 the LS II and AL-5 bass bins have 0 resonance , I would defy anyone on the Klipsch Forum to prove the contrary with real data 

 

@001, it’s hilarious that you’re asking for data. What a reversal!

 

Welcome to the dark side. 😂

[Flevoman]

I always swipe away the songs with resonance immediately, so it's a bit of a wait until another song comes along that clearly showcases it. I've already heard some songs with it to a lesser extent, but I'm trying to find a very clear example. This song definitely has it. As soon as the singing starts, I hear a very strong resonance in his voice. When I listen to this song again on my Sennheiser Earphones, I can hear the warmth in his voice but not that exaggerated/resonant sound.

Starting at 00:37

 

[Shakeydeal]

I will try this on my lascalas to see if I hear it too.

 

If I do hear it, it doesn't mean there is resonance in lascalas. It could be the recording itself. It would be more telling if someone hears it on a different speaker.

 

What percentage of recordings do you experience this with? 5%? 10%?

 

 

[Full Range]

On 12/16/2023 at 9:46 PM, Flevoman said:

I'm currently pondering the best approach to address my issue. It could be through a lengthy detailed text or perhaps a shortcut. I'll opt for the shortcut.

The LaScala 1 was known for its cabinet resonance. I believe this was addressed by placing a wedge in the bass cabinet to reduce the resonance. The LaScala II and the AL-5 have thicker walls. Is the general assumption that this completely eliminates the resonance? Or is there still some resonance present, and could, for example, a wedge in the bass cabinet still provide improvement?

You need to step back and look at the sensitivity of the speakers 

 

I have noticed that on many occasions it’s the source * as it’s in the recording 

Poor mixing or over emphasising certain hertz levels in the recording studio will be faithfully reproduced by the La Scala’s and if that recording goes beyond the tolerance of the speakers it will result in anomalies in playback 

[Invidiosulus]

From the review in Stereophile.

[KT88]

This is exactly the text where Mike TN and I had referred to before.

[Marvel]

3 hours ago, Flevoman said:

When I listen to this song again on my Sennheiser Earphones, I can hear the warmth in his voice but not that exaggerated/resonant sound.

Starting at 00:37

You mean right where his vocals come in? Really obvious... Very much there in my inexpensive Sony headphones I have at work,

[OO1]

 the Stereophile review is full of errors 

 

https://www.stereophile.com/content/klipsch-la-scala-al5-loudspeaker-measurements

 

and I quote 

 

" I found three fairly strong resonant modes on the sides of the bass bin (fig.2). The highest was at 125Hz.

Usually when I measure a loudspeaker's farfield behavior, I raise it as far as possible off the ground.

 

Fig.5 Klipsch La Scala, 

  Note that I didn't connect the woofer for this measurement, as its output was corrupted by the reflections from the floor " 

    ,  

Stereophile  were taking critical measurements  of the Lascala in a not-so-perfect environment  for such measurements,  all the tests and measurements are  therefore flawed    , the Lascala cabinet should have been stabilized firmly to the surface of the floor before any measurements could be done , otherwise the results are simply not accurate or representative of the speaker's true resonance results .

 

 

[billybob]

1 hour ago, Invidiosulus said:

From the review in Stereophile.

I take this as the original LaScala model review?

Thanks!

[OO1]

.....