Cacti Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 (edited) So I just got my first tube amp, CAYIN MT-12N EL84EH, (through Heresy IVs) and I have some thoughts on it. This is my first tub amp, so I wasn't familiar with the sound. It's a push-pull type amp with third-order harmonic distortion. I would love to try an amp with second-order harmonic distortion as it is most pleasing to the ear (so I'm told). Digital music – I'm not really loving the sound for digital music. I believe this is because the tunes have already been squashed with a digital limiter, so when you had tube harmonics and distortion and TUBE COMPRESSION at the end of the signal chain, it doesn't really work. Limiter should be the final stage, adding compression after a limiter is a no no. It sounds almost boxy, it DEF has a sound stage (but not in a good way imo) you can REALLY hear the limiter in the music. Vinyl – This is where it really shines. Because vinyl does not have the digital limiter stage and the dynamics are preserved (at least with older music, some newer pressings use Direct Metal Mastering which does allow for a limiter in the mastering chain before pressing and is more prevalent nowadays because its cheaper and you can continue the loudness war to vinyl. UGH.) , this is where it really shines. It remains very open and it's almost a last touch of tube compression in the analog mastering chain. Chef's kiss. In an ideal world, I think I would have two amps. Tube for vinyl, and SS for digital. Do people run this setup? Just my initial thoughts! Edited January 13 by Cacti 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuzzzer Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 Sure, in fact there’s a dedicated section to tube amps farther down the page. 😉 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cacti Posted January 13 Author Share Posted January 13 13 minutes ago, wuzzzer said: Sure, in fact there’s a dedicated section to tube amps farther down the page. 😉 Crap missed that. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82 Cornwalls Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 Different opinions are amusing at times. I really enjoy tube amps with digital/CDs. @Cacti Are you a guitar player? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 Ive actually found the tube effect counter to yours OP... I while Vinyl was awesome, I also found that with Digital, Tube's take the edge off and makes it MORE palatable. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybob Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 Actually looking forward to a review of your new amp. It is said that tubes take some time to burn in. Maybe a little more time will tell. BTW, are you using the Cayins phono? Thanks! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakeydeal Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 You haven’t found the right tube amp. The right one will sound fantastic with all genres of music and make you forget about solid state. Not sure where this idea of “tube compression” comes from. Tubes breathe life into music. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richieb Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 19 minutes ago, Shakeydeal said: You haven’t found the right tube amp. The right one will sound fantastic with all genres of music and make you forget about solid state. Not sure where this idea of “tube compression” comes from. Tubes breathe life into music. “You haven’t found the right tube amp”. Make your next purchase a quality shovel as you are about to begin digging a rather large, deep and expensive rabbit hole. You may run into one of us during your dig — 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82 Cornwalls Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 59 minutes ago, Shakeydeal said: Not sure where this idea of “tube compression” comes from. Guitar amp world where some purposely overdrive the amp for compression, an effect for creating music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcn3 Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 2 hours ago, 83 LSIs said: Guitar amp world where some purposely overdrive the amp for compression, an effect for creating music. Yep, but primary due to the higher voltages on the tubes and intentionally undersized output transformers. Tube compression is not something you would associate with audio tube amps when operated normally (i.e. within the design intent). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikekid Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 We have a Decware Zen amp just about to get shipped to us. Took over two years for the order to complete. Orders went haywire after rave reviews.. Looking forward to it with our 1996 Klipsch ChorusII's 👌 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 I didn't know where both Compressor and Limiter came from in terms of audio playback. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KT88 Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 There seems to be some confusion here. As has already been said in this thread, a normal tube amp for home use is generally always designed so that the OT does not go into saturation in relation to the given power, unlike a guitar amp. This is why there is no compression at this point in the playback chain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the real Duke Spinner Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 There is little dynamic range on the dB meter Vinyl is limited by low freq range or dynamics The recording engineer chooses what Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invidiosulus Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 12 hours ago, Cacti said: So I just got my first tube amp, CAYIN MT-12N EL84EH, (through Heresy IVs) and I have some thoughts on it. This is my first tub amp, so I wasn't familiar with the sound. It's a push-pull type amp with third-order harmonic distortion. I would love to try an amp with second-order harmonic distortion as it is most pleasing to the ear (so I'm told). Digital music – I'm not really loving the sound for digital music. I believe this is because the tunes have already been squashed with a digital limiter, so when you had tube harmonics and distortion and TUBE COMPRESSION at the end of the signal chain, it doesn't really work. Limiter should be the final stage, adding compression after a limiter is a no no. It sounds almost boxy, it DEF has a sound stage (but not in a good way imo) you can REALLY hear the limiter in the music. Vinyl – This is where it really shines. Because vinyl does not have the digital limiter stage and the dynamics are preserved (at least with older music, some newer pressings use Direct Metal Mastering which does allow for a limiter in the mastering chain before pressing and is more prevalent nowadays because its cheaper and you can continue the loudness war to vinyl. UGH.) , this is where it really shines. It remains very open and it's almost a last touch of tube compression in the analog mastering chain. Chef's kiss. In an ideal world, I think I would have two amps. Tube for vinyl, and SS for digital. Do people run this setup? Just my initial thoughts! You aren’t clear on what you are defining as “digital music”. Compressed formats such as streaming and mp3 can be very different from CD etc. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakeydeal Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 6 hours ago, Invidiosulus said: You aren’t clear on what you are defining as “digital music”. Compressed formats such as streaming and mp3 can be very different from CD etc. Good point. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry4841 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 20 hours ago, Cacti said: So I just got my first tube amp, CAYIN MT-12N EL84EH, (through Heresy IVs) and I have some thoughts on it. This is my first tub amp, so I wasn't familiar with the sound. It's a push-pull type amp with third-order harmonic distortion. It is not that it has 3rd order harmonics. I have not seen the spec's on the amp but PP amplifiers cancel out much of all the distortion delivering a very clean signal with the even and odd harmonics below the level of being noticeable or a problem. In a SET tube amplifier a 2nd order harmonic is noticeable which many consider desirable including myself. Some of the best in the sound industry like a little 2nd harmonic and a touch of 3rd in their amplifiers. Some even put some in if it is not there. It is called entertainment. Adding a simple circuit tube preamplifier will put some 2nd harmonics into the mix if you want to play. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 I've ran a Tubes4Hifi sp12 line stage into a Nelson Pass ACA with great results with both streaming Spotify and vinyl with the PH6 Phono pre amp. All powering a pair of Heresy 1s. I don't recall what either the output impedance or input impedance is, but if memory serves, it wasn't an issue when I was researching that particular concern. As someone has mentioned, if this was a integrated system, it would be what is referred to as a hybrid. I would love to hear a full tube separate system. I have enjoyed a Scott 222 with these Heresys that I thought sounded wonderful with both digital streaming and vinyl. Now that i have a better hi res digital setup, I am looking forward to getting my hands on another Scott. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cacti Posted January 14 Author Share Posted January 14 (edited) On 1/13/2024 at 10:19 AM, 83 LSIs said: Different opinions are amusing at times. I really enjoy tube amps with digital/CDs. @Cacti Are you a guitar player? Guilty haha 23 hours ago, billybob said: Actually looking forward to a review of your new amp. It is said that tubes take some time to burn in. Maybe a little more time will tell. BTW, are you using the Cayins phono? Thanks! Nope, I have a phono amp built into my turntable that is decent enough. 19 hours ago, Schu said: I didn't know where both Compressor and Limiter came from in terms of audio playback. Not in playback, in the mastering stage. 13 hours ago, Invidiosulus said: You aren’t clear on what you are defining as “digital music”. Compressed formats such as streaming and mp3 can be very different from CD etc. I'm referring to compression in the music since in the mixing/mastering stage, not the compressions or transcoding of the audio file. Edited January 14 by Cacti 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cacti Posted January 14 Author Share Posted January 14 5 hours ago, henry4841 said: It is not that it has 3rd order harmonics. I have not seen the spec's on the amp but PP amplifiers cancel out much of all the distortion delivering a very clean signal with the even and odd harmonics below the level of being noticeable or a problem. In a SET tube amplifier a 2nd order harmonic is noticeable which many consider desirable including myself. Some of the best in the sound industry like a little 2nd harmonic and a touch of 3rd in their amplifiers. Some even put some in if it is not there. It is called entertainment. Adding a simple circuit tube preamplifier will put some 2nd harmonics into the mix if you want to play. Appreciate the clarification, good to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.