Ceptorman Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Well maybe they should put the increased tax on imported oil only. JJK Again, increasing taxes wont help anything, and once in place, they never go away, plus they will divert the funds away from where they were intended. So please explain to the forum, how increasing taxes on only foreign oil will benefit anyone except the government and a few overpaid oil workers? Please tell me what this does other than make it cost more for everyone to basically put these non educated, over paid workers on another well fair program??? Roger What makes you think that oil workers are uneducated and over paid? My job is very dangerous and the hours are long and hard. We don't complain about foul weather because we have to work in it no matter what. We don't complain when we are working holidays and spending months away from home. Yes, I do make a very comfortable living. Yes, I earn every penny. Sounds like the exact kind of BS a Pro Athlete or Film Star would SPEW!! "I earn every penny of it!" You are overpaid and those jobs could be filled for a lot less money. When you are making a wage higher than those with educations that are responsible for others lives, you are overpaid.... Don't like what I said, go cry elsewhere... Roger I'll bet if those employers could find someone to do that job cheaper they would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebuy Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 What a crappy attitude by some forum members towards members of society who work manual labor for a living. Maybe you would just prefer they sit on their "uneducated" rumps and take government money. You have no idea about the education of many people who work manual labor, just a stereotype in your own mind. There are many people who have the education your touting that cannot find employment, so instead of living in mom's and dad's basement, they choose to work. Get off your high horse. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistedcrankcammer Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 You are overpaid and those jobs could be filled for a lot less money. Roger, you have no idea how much I disagree. You are welcome to a shift in North Dakota with a high wind and 30 below, 12 hours, 2 weeks straight and then see how "overpaid" these guys are. I've trained nearly 8,000 of them in a facility with a lot of easily portable, expensive equipment for over a decade an not a single thing has ever gone missing. A lot of them never completed high school, but they WORK, and work hard doing things you won't to put that cheap gas in your vehicle. I am being very, very measured in my response because I really don't think you understand these people or what is at stake. They are the best this country has to offer, and I've told them they are actually the first line of defense in that our national security is dependent on access to energy. That's what the all the business in the middle east is about...oil. The more we produce here, the less we must go to war to ensure foreign suppliers. Enjoy that cheap fuel. The longer it lasts, the more of these guys wind up at WalMart and the more dependent we become on the lives of our soldiers to ensure our supply. Dave Don't care Dave! Care less than you could imagine... What would they make for the same job in a different Country? I know they work hard, I know it is dangerous work, I know it is a young mans profession, BUT there are many, many more jobs with the same qualifications that pay ALOT LESS!! I will wager there are at least 500 or 1,000 applicants that will fill that position for less, and after Allah / Obama gets his way and makes 13 million illegals in this country legal, there will be 13 Million more able bodied souls vying for that same job. And what the HeII does them being honest have to do with them being worth every penny? Makes as much sense as your argument for more taxes. I don't care if they have to line up at WallMart, it goes with the territory of not getting a usable skill! Tell me one field these guys could walk in tomorrow and make that kind of money with their skill set because they are hard workers and are willing to risk their lives? Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistedcrankcammer Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 (edited) Well maybe they should put the increased tax on imported oil only. JJK Again, increasing taxes wont help anything, and once in place, they never go away, plus they will divert the funds away from where they were intended. So please explain to the forum, how increasing taxes on only foreign oil will benefit anyone except the government and a few overpaid oil workers? Please tell me what this does other than make it cost more for everyone to basically put these non educated, over paid workers on another well fair program??? Roger What makes you think that oil workers are uneducated and over paid? My job is very dangerous and the hours are long and hard. We don't complain about foul weather because we have to work in it no matter what. We don't complain when we are working holidays and spending months away from home. Yes, I do make a very comfortable living. Yes, I earn every penny. Sounds like the exact kind of BS a Pro Athlete or Film Star would SPEW!! "I earn every penny of it!" You are overpaid and those jobs could be filled for a lot less money. When you are making a wage higher than those with educations that are responsible for others lives, you are overpaid.... Don't like what I said, go cry elsewhere... Roger I'll bet if those employers could find someone to do that job cheaper they would. And I'll bet it has NOTHING to do with UNIONS either??? Roger Edited January 28, 2015 by twistedcrankcammer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistedcrankcammer Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 What a crappy attitude by some forum members towards members of society who work manual labor for a living. Maybe you would just prefer they sit on their "uneducated" rumps and take government money. You have no idea about the education of many people who work manual labor, just a stereotype in your own mind. There are many people who have the education your touting that cannot find employment, so instead of living in mom's and dad's basement, they choose to work. Get off your high horse. Oh, I'm sorry! and your opinion means.... NOTHING! So because they choose to work a dirty, hard job, they should be paid more than someone who is responsible for your life and has to clean up your Feces ?? You are endowed with extreme intellect! Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean5340 Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 What a crappy attitude by some forum members towards members of society who work manual labor for a living. Maybe you would just prefer they sit on their "uneducated" rumps and take government money. You have no idea about the education of many people who work manual labor, just a stereotype in your own mind. There are many people who have the education your touting that cannot find employment, so instead of living in mom's and dad's basement, they choose to work. Get off your high horse. Oh, I'm sorry! and your opinion means.... NOTHING! So because they choose to work a dirty, hard job, they should be paid more than someone who is responsible for your life and has to clean up your Feces ?? You are endowed with extreme intellect! Roger I think you could use a raise. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebuy Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 What a crappy attitude by some forum members towards members of society who work manual labor for a living. Maybe you would just prefer they sit on their "uneducated" rumps and take government money. You have no idea about the education of many people who work manual labor, just a stereotype in your own mind. There are many people who have the education your touting that cannot find employment, so instead of living in mom's and dad's basement, they choose to work. Get off your high horse. Oh, I'm sorry! and your opinion means.... NOTHING! So because they choose to work a dirty, hard job, they should be paid more than someone who is responsible for your life and has to clean up your Feces ?? You are endowed with extreme intellect! Roger I think you could use a raise. Don't try to cheer me up now with your witty comments. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taz Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 (edited) I have a real twit for a sister in law. She was whinning because I made more money it the sawmill then she did for the forest service. I never seen a forest circus employee work as hard as we did in the sawmill. The labor wears out the body and by the time retirement comes around you have a body that is wore out from repetive motions. I don't care what anyone else thinks. Sawmill work is under paid for the damage done to your body. I expect a Rough Neck would probably feel about the same way about their jobs. It's all so easy to say that someone else is getting paid too much. I think that is up to those who hold the job to decide if they will work at the wages offered for the job. I doubt that an employer would try to pay more then what people will do the job for. Seems I read a short time ago that those that have money think those that don't have as much money are getting more then what they are worth. They need to try to do the job before Cutting others down that do it. I ALSO DON'T CARE WHO AGREES WITH ME OR NOT. We are all entitled to our opinion, but that does not mean everybody is right. Since I've never worked in the oil Industry so I'll reserve judgement for those with more experince in the field. It will never happen that we all agree on everything. Big Squat, Some people will judge others as lower class and less DESERVING of the wages earned. Don't like the oil field workers? Give up using petroleum and then maybe you might pack some wt. Kind of like those that want to eliminate cutting trees for lumber but live in a wooden house (bunch of Hypocrites). Edited January 28, 2015 by Taz 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistedcrankcammer Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 (edited) I have a real twit for a sister in law. She was whinning because I made more money it the sawmill then she did for the forest service. I never seen a forest circus employee work as hard as we did in the sawmill. The labor wears out the body and by the time retirement comes around you have a body that is wore out from repetive motions. I don't care what anyone else thinks. Sawmill work is under paid for the damage done to your body. I expect a Rough Neck would probably feel about the same way about their jobs. It's all so easy to say that someone else is getting paid too much. I think that is up to those who hold the job to decide if they will work at the wages offered for the job. I doubt that an employer would try to pay more then what people will do the job for. Seems I read a short time ago that those that have money think those that don't have as much money are getting more then what they are worth. They need to try to do the job before Cutting others down that do it. I ALSO DON'T CARE WHO AGREES WITH ME OR NOT. We are all entitled to our opinion, but that does not mean everybody is right. Since I've never worked in the oil Industry so I'll reserve judgement for those with more experince in the field. It will never happen that we all agree on everything. Big Squat, Some people will judge others as lower class and less DESERVING of the wages earned. Don't like the oil field workers? Give up using petroleum and then maybe you might pack some wt. Kind of like those that want to eliminate cutting trees for lumber but live in a wooden house (bunch of Hypocrites). Taz, I know that you are just like me in that you don't care about my opinion either, but you ARE WRONG! My first job was in a slaughter house, after that, I worked as a custom cabinet maker, later still a custom laminate worker. Don't think that those who are responsible for taking care of your life and cleaning your feces up are worth more than manual labor?? How about teaching, which is a 4 year degree minimum. Want to compare apples to apples, explain to me how much more dangerous being a rough neck is than being a grunt in war right now, then explain to me how that same rough neck is worth multiple times in salary than that grunt. Prove your point or keep movin on! Roger Edited January 28, 2015 by twistedcrankcammer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 (edited) BUT there are many, many more jobs with the same qualifications that pay ALOT LESS!! Roger, your attitude is a lot more about ignorance than it is about these guys and their value. I know your "softer" side and your better nature and judgment: This isn't it. Let me tell you a few facts. Our rigs cost 18-25 million dollars each. A crew of 6 operates the entire rig. They are trained by my facility intensely and when they leave here they can dismantle one of these rigs safely and have it on the road in 8 hours, then spud in a new well in about the same time. Maybe you want Walmart qualified folks poking a hole into high pressure, high temperature, H2S bearing strata down the road from your house but count me out. The driller has 5 or more years experience and is trained to be military ready when signs from below become unstable or threatening and the crew must understand and carry out complex tasks and do so to perfection in order to prevent disaster. A typical shift is 2 weeks, 7 days a week, 12 hour days of pulling out of hole, running into hole with oil based mud and all sorts of nastiness raining down on the drilling deck. Then they get to clean it up. We leave our sites as we found them except for a wellhead sticking out of the ground. The places where we drill are predominately everywhere you don't want to be. All our crew wear long sleeved flame retardant clothing, and that includes the Permian Basin where temperatures get into the 110 plus range regularly with no wind. In the northern plays, the winters are deadly and whiteout conditions common. The drill turns to the right 24/7 regardless, including Christmas day. There are no holidays or weekends in the drilling business, no email or Facebook, most the time no cell phone service. If you get hurt a hospital may be hours away and an ambulance an hour to get there. When your shift is done, you wash your own clothes, cook your own meals, and make your own bed. And the expectation is that the bunkhouse will be kept as clean and professional as the rig. All this for the princely sum of 22.00/hr to start. Those big checks you mention are from the 4 hours a day and weekend overtime that is federally mandated. UNIONS? Are you shittn' me? I do not know of ANY drilling company in this country that is unionized. Responsible companies, like the one I work for, pay the market rate which is a combination of simple fair play and what it takes to operate safely and at a profit to shareholders. Maybe you see otherwise, but for me it's the epitome of the American way. It costs us 500.00 per day to train a raw civilian as a deck hand, and 1 out of 4 hits the road in the first tour in the field after deciding that "all that money" isn't as attractive as a nice air conditioned Walmart. As for the company, we have two corporate jets. Over the years I've worked here I've known one of them to be dispatched on several occasions to pick up an injured crewman in South America or to carry a crewman's family to their location in an emergency. One of my proudest moments with this company was when I was teaching a class a few years ago and discussing our company's insistence on safety as a condition of employment and an older driller spoke: "For a long time my son told me he wanted to follow me into the oil field. I always told him I would kick his *** six ways from Sunday if he set foot on a drilling rig. Having worked for this company now for 4 years I told him last trip home he could work in the oil field, but ONLY for this company." Think about it, Roger. Go out to a rig and watch from a safe distance sometime. If you still think these guys are overpaid go out and get yourself an electric car built by Japanese factory workers with a Chinese battery made by folks being paid what you consider a fair wage. As for me, I think a large bronze statue of a roughneck should be placed on the capitol mall with the words "They kept us out of war..." Dave Edited January 28, 2015 by Mallette 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MORE KLIPSCH PLEASE Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Well ahhhh...........I'm seeing a $1.99 in Westminster Md for reg ;-o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Enjoy it, MKP. We'll all pay for it when the Saudi's get all US production back where they want it. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete H Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Enjoy it, MKP. We'll all pay for it when the Saudi's get all US production back where they want it. Dave Well stated. I didn't read through all the BS but I'm in Ohio and do business with a lot of people that are directly and indirectly involved with the oil and gas exploration that has been going on and I'm not a proponent of raising taxes to promote more out of control spending but placing an import tax on crude that would fluctuate with the price and go directly and 100% towards the building of infrastructure for domestic and North American oil and gas as well as refining, reserves and better technology would be a huge step in the right direction to counter what the Saudi's are doing and increase jobs, revenue, security and stability here. Just my opinion, I could be wrong. Have a wonderful day! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 The pay rate for any job is determined by the market, not the employee. That goes for military, teacher, Dr, roughneck, etc. If an oil rig could get away with paying an employee less to do the same job, they would. If they paid less, they may not have employees to work the rig. Don't get mad at the employee, get mad at the system. If an employee doesn't like the paying wage they can keep their job and put up with it or look for work in a profession that pays more. I agree that some jobs SHOULD pay more than others in an ideal world, but that's not where we live. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJkizak Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Somebody told me a while ago that "cowboying" should be the highest paying job because it is the worst job imaginable. JJK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Well......I was talkin to my son.....He said if gas prices go back up so be it.....he will have already paid for the tires his wife's car so desperately needed. She drives to work and delivers four kids to school. He also drives, saving about $60 per week now. I cant imagine ANYONE would put the whole world in financial hardship( cost to families and cutting terror funding for ex.) month after month to support a small group, even if we love that group too. All work is valuable, physical, brain, all.........I also think 90+% of the people in the US would agree, lower gas prices are very good for THEIR economy. $2.01 per gallon -Southern IN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Pete, I am with you though I don't care how we go about ensuring our domestic supply as long as we do it. Those whining about the pay domestic oil workers in the US make don't have a clue how badly those same workers fight to go to the ME where they get twice as much because use production techniques and oilfield professionals are the best the planet has to offer. The cost of domestic crude has nothing to do with the pay the workers get. It's about how hard it is to get to. Poke a hole in most of the ME and you get a lake to pump from. Those days are LONG passed in US land operations but we can compete on an even playing field. A balance between US domestic and foreign crude means long term stability and reasonable prices at the pump. Once the Arabs shut down US exploration, the prices will go up. Once we pump them dry, they go up again as we have to shift primarily to US production. From my vantage point I "guess" reasonable pump prices to ensure our energy security, minimize our military intervention needs, and maintain domestic exploration and production at around 3.00 per gallon. Adjusted for inflation, that's 75 cents over the cost of a gallon of gas in the US in 1965 when our wells were shallow, easy, and flowed free...and the oil fields were filthy and thousands were injured and killed every year working with totally unsafe equipment in terrible conditions. Frankly, I see it as a bargain. If we'd had the equipment we have now in 1965 we'd probably have been paying 15 cents a gallon. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 I cant imagine ANYONE would put the whole world in financial hardship( cost to families and cutting terror funding for ex.) month after month to support a small group, even if we love that group too. I am not talking about a small group. ALL will pay for this Saudi scheme. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fjd Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 (edited) Somebody told me a while ago that "cowboying" should be the highest paying job because it is the worst job imaginable. JJK I don't know if this would be the worst job, but it sure looks like a crappy job. Edited January 28, 2015 by Fjd 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 There are surely valid points made in many statements in this thread. But.....I'm glad I don't have the duty of defending high gas prices. All the people I know would not be sympathetic. I suppose cause they're all in debt to their butt, working over, barely hanging on compared to the previous generation. Everywhere we look somebody is poking us for more money. The, insurance, taxes, fees, hospitals, groceries, tires, paint, lumber and a never ending list............... When I was young things went up a few % at a time. Now it may go up 25% or more every few years, greed is truly out of control. I certainly support good pay for hard (or any) work, I have a feeling a FAIR share of the money never goes to the workers in many jobs............ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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