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Good Sunday morning everyone... :emotion-44: Thanks Chuck.............it was a fun and fine time......late dinner out at a local brewery uptown, paid for by boss was also very nice, and the organist was a pleasure to talk with and learn more about some 'behind the scenes' stuff going on in the pipeorgan/recording world ... OK, pancake / sausage / bacon breakfast with PERC Starbucks coffee done, kitchen cleaned, outdoor sound system entertaining me and the neighbors with Diana Krall for the FIRST TIME... I hope they like it, those TIC speakers are very impressive! Pictures of the system forthcoming.. Time to mow lawn for the first time.............wash down the deck from yellow pollen and then hopefully a nice pasta dinner al fresco for later this evening More later my friends............enjoy your Sunday ............Gary

.......last shot, organist rehearsing...... See you all later ;0)

Good to see everyone and for your compliments... ;0) Show's about to start, but I will try to keep uploading for you... Here is a view from my pew, boss is sitting behind me, the ladder to the chamber is ready and in place just in case something goes wacky ;0)

Hey guys... Well Tigerman it sounds like you got a good day planed.... I'm still working on the 1st cup...was up late last night watching some dumb a$$ movie with the wife... We do the Net-Flix thing... The move was Tusk.....I thought it was gonna be silly but.....anyway.....I give it a thumbs down.. We did go to the movies last week. We saw the new Avengers move, we liked that So today I think I will be putting together my new grill....Last week I pulled out the old grill and was cleaning it up. Some of the burner plates were broke and few of the burners need replacing. I told the wife this is the last year for the grill....She looked at and said "that old grill is not going on our new deck!!"(this is the 1st year of our new deck....three long years of building). When the wife says it's time for a new grill....who am I to argue.. OK guys...Wishing all a great Sunday.. MKP:-)

Listen and let your ears decide, obsessing over what others think is a slippery slope that can / does lead to a never ending upgrade. Ask me how I Know

New here, this is my system

Great photos and lighting. I'm sure it was a special event.

I cannot have one of these (space inhibited Mancave) So iv got the next best thing, or so the neighbors say, guy next door wonders if i built an organ. The is a plus to having eight 15" push/pull subs

Well I didn't want to leave you all hanging this week so I thought I would stop in and say hi. Been busy trying to drive a sand point by hand, things were going good until my drive coupler got screwed up. Sounds like you all have been busy this last week as well. Well I should be popping in time and again in different threads, so if you miss me you can all ways find me lurking in the shadows .

Good afternoon everyone...... LOVE to see some photos of the new deck and grill MKP DO SHOW !! Dtel, you would NEVER believe the power of some of these instruments when you get up close and personal, I was in that one last night setting up those lights and the organist was going over some music for the action scenes.... It kept getting louder and bigger with each passing second, next thing my pant legs were vibrating from the roar of it all PLUS the big 32' pipes along that wall........it is beyond a stereo effect. 2.5 story WALL of pipe chambers in front of me and then that whole section in those blue photos behind me.........I very quickly grabbed my earplugs and put them in ! The amazing thing with it all, is it is powered by WIND, no amps, no speakers and the sheer volume would take tens of thousands of watts I'm sure ! Lawn mower serviced=fresh oil / fuel.....damn thing started on the first pull after sitting since last year, same old gas too (a little left in tank). I don't understand why I have never had old fuel go bad. So many people I know run into mucked up carbs and fuel systems.... I use 93 octane for all the gas powered tools, it seems to have a longer life for what ever reason. OK, front and rear lawns done... NEW Sandstone painting of St. Francis statue done... Deck hosed down and clean for dinner party... Snowblower stored away... THREE 16.5 oz. of spring water consumed, time for a shower I think ....more later... ........Gary

Good Afternoon Gang Every three months the city sends out a notice for yard/junk clean up, pile it the street kind of thing. Lived here six years and this is the first time the wife and i have a pile, Boat leftovers, bushes, half a tree. Wife and i started nippin at the Lagavulin about an hour ago, that helps. As best as i can remember, the last time i picked up the business end of a wheelbarrow, i was 10. Crankin SRV all day, im sure the neighbors know im out in the yard, not a peep, not a person all day....

Be sure to pick up a chimney charcoal starter. They work great with lump charcoal. I too prefer to cook over coals. But since most of my outdoor cooking is for just me the convenience of a small gas grill is hard to ignore. If I'm grilling for a group I break out the charcoal gear.

Just catching up, and thanks for the toaster Gots to go to work again,sameoh ___ !

NIce to see you still running R2R. It has been many years since we last swapped tapes.

True, there is no end game, so maby it's time to put together something reasonable and forget it, and listen to the music without worrying about if it could sound better. Of course it could sound better, everything can be improved if you look enough. Enjoy the music and forget about how it being played. I probably spend as much time listening to a pair of heresy's as much as anything else here and it sounds good. Don't obsess it makes it hard to listen to the music.

Sell your soul to the dark lord like everybody else did. Or just chill out and stop second guessing yourself.

Added you as a friend MKP

honestly, the system I have now. I'm going to stop reading reviews, stop swooning over newly released gear, and start listening to music through the perfectly suitable system I've cobbled together over the last year and a half. 2010 MacBook Pro, currently testing Roon Schiit Gungnir Tube Fanatic (maynard) custom SEP amp Cornwalls with Aletheia crossovers. I always think I've got a "noob" system when I hang out with all of you guys, but looking over this list while listening to music through it I realize it's quite a special (and revealing) little system.. which is exactly what I want.

In side the main chamber..... In the front corner, you see the reflecting light on the wooden resonators of the pedal reed. The tops of the lowest notes can be seen just under the ceiling.. The left most pipe sounds at 16 Hz. It was responsible for knocking a fluorescent lighting fixture out of the ceiling and onto many small pipes in another chamber nearly 3 stories up.....We fixed that, but not the shaking of the plaster walls and such......

Thanks for the picks Gary! Awesome shots of a remarkable instrument.

Well, the one thing i paid a mind to when this current system was done, was the age of the neighbors, thinking what they grew up with, because i can handle anything but Rap. So, guy next door is 89, benny goodman era, guy on the back side of me 30s, new age current, got it handled. I play everything from Patsy Cline to Avenged sevenfold. So i figure they can put up with my "Pipe Organ", so far so good.

Ah, Mark, hear you there with the music............... I had my live Diana Krall going, then went on to some other Jazz trio recordings, ended with some very cool and spacy New Age, good low end test for the new system. Neighbors sliders are all wide open (2 homes and all 3 back yards meet ours) so they were both getting an ear full at a good volume all afternoon............no complaints and no sliders were shut a good thing

Smart wife, listen to her, at least when she says get a new grill. Thanks for the pic's Tigerman, never heard a pipe organ in person, have to try it one day.

2 CH

Man if I had the room and a truck Id be on my way to get these.

Best part of the ad: "Currently the speaker terminals will not accept banana plugs but I am told the center of the jack can be drilled out to allow the use of banana plugs." Or pull the little plastic plugs out. Looks like a great deal.

Yep, what they said!!!

Oh Yea, WELCOME to the Madness

Another at Crater Lake

Mt. Rainier, 2013

Crater Lake, Oregon 2013

one non technical thought: invite the neighbors up. let them listen to the system. also let them know the hope is for no offense to be taken. ask them to call when there's a problem and it will be accommodated as needed. could earn some good will.

Thanks my man... MKP:-) Once you get control of this friend thing and feel all warm and fuzzy, i will introduce you to Thads royal court of Minions, entrance fee's are BitCoinage, and i still dont know what the perks are.

Alright, you the forum members as well as my neighbors know what im currently running. Designing/research/costing is ongoing for the next level, nothing concrete, however i am looking into some rather bizar items. One of them i will share, does not mean im buyin these critters, just looking at options

Thanks my man... MKP:-)

You don't here unless you are listed as a Klipsch Employee.

I would keep the Chorus IIs... I really dislike Cornwalls. Maybe also keep the KLF 30s... Bruce

I was always fond of the Airstream trailers... my aunt and uncle would always stop by for a few days when they were headed south for the winter. They would never stay in the house. They preferred life in their 23' 1960's vintage Airstream

There was one time I sent a friend request and I got some kind of response saying....."waiting for member to accept" it was something like that?? Not quite sure.....I think it was this forum....lol lol MKP:-)

Trying to refrain from Orgasm

This one is of the right facade... I have lighted the chamber with blue up spots..... Just enough to add some old cinema atmosphere ;0))

Good evening friends.... Thanks for that Chuck, if you ever come north ;0) ................... Nice flower shots too (0: I brought the iPad to the church where the silent film is being shown..... I took some photos for you all.... Here is a shot of the console...... Organ built in 1921 and is UNaltered meaning, it sounds just as it did back in the day! The organist's monitor to accomp the silent film is ready....

I have always provided likes to things I agree with, a post I learned something new from, or just a good post. It's sort of like a +1, a thanks for posting, or a great job sticker depending on the like reason. I never did likes for people I liked, just for posts I liked. Friends is a bit different. With friends, you can be notified if they have a status update. Otherwise, you wouldn't know unless you made it a point to go look. That could be cumbersome if you have 40 people who you want to keep up to date with.

I believe that Gator food on the branch is a Night Heron.

I think I saw those Khorns on Ebay. Is that where you got them?

My main reason for writing this is because I could not find a review for the P312W when I was considering getting it. I thought there should be something out there for someone to refer to prior to investing such a large amount of money. So here is my humble contribution. I hope it helps someone. Also, since I have the RSW-15 I thought it would be beneficial to give someone who has perhaps heard that sub a baseline against Klipsch’s current best offering. These are arguably the best two consumer subwoofers Klipsch has made in the last 15 years. I am privileged to own both of them. But before having both I often wondered which one was the better performer in relation to cost? Would someone who spent $800 on a used RSW-15 be significantly disadvantaged or would spending $4,000 on a brand new P312w be worth it? No doubt, these subs are in a different classes, one being 12” and the other being 15”. But, I think that since the technology built into the larger sub is over a decade old and the technology in the 12” sub is ‘newer’ the comparison might be more balanced. And I will try to remember that during my comparison. This is strictly a 2.1 channel setup comparison. Mechanically, at first glance the most obvious differences between these subs is the driver size. The P312W sports an electronic control panel on the top front edge. It allows total control over the sub either through the use of these touch controls or the remote control. Volume, crossover, presets (music, HT, user), slope, phase (0-180 in single degree increments), etc. The lights are blue and intensity is adjustable. Frankly, when I first saw it I found the color un-appealing. It’s growing on me but I don’t think I’ll ever be enamored with it. The RSW-15 has no such panel and access to most of these controls (it does not have presets) is primarily on the back via switches and knobs. Not very ergonomic especially when you consider placement close to a wall and you are trying to get behind it to make adjustments. No fancy remote to make changes from the comfort of your lounger. The volume control is handy (in an old-fashioned sort of way) in that it is located on the upper right side of the box. You still have to get out of your lounger to adjust it (first-world problems!). Visually, the differences are striking. The RSW-15 is essentially a box with a nice finish and two copper colored woofers (one active and one passive) on either end – visually appealing in its own way, if not a bit plain. The finish is beautiful. Mine is the Cherry. Black is also offered. The grille is large and flimsily. The pins that hold it onto the subwoofer are extremely long and spindly. They break easily and finding a used one with all the pins is probably rare. Really a shame and the engineers should have been embarrassed. The slightly smaller-in-stature P312W sports a sort of aircraft fuselage design with a remarkable finish (it comes in Merlot, Espresso, or Natural) but IMO a rather boring woofer – the color is sort of gray and reflects light to an off-white wavelength. I look at it and keep thinking ‘why not copper?’ I remember being struck on how small the driver looked even for 12 inches. I think this affect is because the driver itself is not flush with the front surface of the sub and is actually recessed 1.5 inches. If not for the design of the driver’s bezel I’d probably be fine leaving the grille on it. Speaking of which, the grille is light-years ahead in design compared to the RSW-15’s. It’s more rigid because it is a solid piece of plastic with only the center opened for the driver, unlike the RSW-15’s which is a completely hollow-diamond design. It fits very snugly around the bezel of the control panel at the top. So much so that I felt I should slip it up from the beneath and then into place to push in the much shorter and less likely to break pins into their perfectly fitted holes. Magnets are my personal preference. There are 3 drivers on the P312W in a triangular configuration: an active driver on the front and a passive on either side of the ‘fuselage.’ They also have their own grilles, which presents a grille management problem if you want them all three removed to display the drivers. Where does one put 3 grilles, much less one? However, Klipsch does not recommend removing the passive grilles and doesn’t describe in the manual how to remove them, only that if they are off they should be reinstalled. I found that interesting. Rear connections are also light-years different on the two models. The RSW-15 has inputs via RCA connections. That’s it! The P312W has options: RCA, USB, MIC (included, to calibrate the sub to your room, completely automated), and XLR jacks. I would have liked to have seen optical added to the list, if it’s possible? One detail that deserves mentioning is that the RSW-15 has a small light on the front to let you know it’s on. The P312W has no such indicator. They both have an auto on feature. Probably of no value, but I found it curious that the power cable for the P312W is two-pronged. No ground. The RSW-15 is three-pronged. I’m not an electrician so maybe someone with a background could explain the difference. The P312W is the first subwoofer I have purchased that came with a pair of white cotton gloves and a ‘gown’ with a draw string made of the same white cotton to clothe the sub in for shipment. As mentioned, a fully functioning remote control, a mic in a (faux?) leather pouch with a stand and an ample length cable are also included. I didn’t buy my RSW-15 new so I can’t comment on what was in the box. Before we get to the ‘meat’ of this review, a few P312W specifics: Calibrating the P312W for room acoustics is pretty straight forward. Simply hook up the microphone and place it, find the menu for running the test on the sub and begin. The sub will run tones from lowest to highest and then it’s done. You can then save the slope in any of the presets or user defined settings provided. The P312W remote is a bit larger than a credit card and about ¼” thick. Any function on the subs control panel can be achieved with the remote. It is convenient for making changes but I do not like that there is no visual feedback to know whether the adjustments you are making are actually being received by the sub. For instance, if you want to change the volume you will hear this difference given enough change. But for even 3 db changes I’m not sure anybody can hear that, so without any visual feedback from the remote the only way to confirm the change is to walk up to the sub and watch the display. On other adjustments, such as making a 5hz adjustment to the crossover, good luck verifying that at your couch, so I found myself walking over and using the remote right in front of the sub so I could see the display. That kind of defeats the purpose of the remote. Also, because of the small and lightweight size of the remote it felt a little clumsy in my hand. My hands are small. I imagine anybody with larger hands would have difficulty using it. There are 3 settings to help define your subs characteristics: Depth, Flat, and Punch. According to the manual, this is what they do: Depth: boosts the 30hz range. Punch: emphasizes the 55hz region. Flat: defeats those two settings. I am using Depth for this review. Ideal placement for this sub as described in the manual is for it to be put into a corner pointed at the listener. This is so the passive drivers each have a wall to work with and to enhance the bass. This is problematic IF you want your sub on the front wall with your main speakers simply because most people are going to use those corners for those main speakers. It is especially problematic if you are using the sub in a 2.1 system with Klipschorns, such as my setup. Okay! Let’s move onto the main event! How do the RSW-15 and the P312W compare in what they have been designed to do? (DISCLAIMER: I do not have measuring equipment, nor do I consider myself an ‘audiophile’. I’m only going on how they sound and how they feel TO ME). Equipment: For full disclosure, each sub is being fed lossless files from GooglePlay through a Sonos with a vintage DBX BX3 Mii and a DBX CX3 Mii pre-amp powering the Klipschorns. I also run a DBX 14/10 Equalizer/Analyzer. Room characteristics: I spent a lot of time finding where the crossover point on these subs felt most comfortable with the Klipschorns: 45hz. I am using the EQ to even out room acoustics TO SUIT MY EAR. The subs are sitting in a room that is 16 feet wide and about 35 feet long with 9 foot ceilings with carpeting for the first 20 feet from all speakers. A fairly good sized space for two enclosed subs – an especially tall order for the P312W since it is 12 inches. For all songs I am listening at my position at about 18 feet from the speakers. Readings here are averaging 80db. Songs chosen for the comparison are: Michael Jackson’s Billie Jean; Oleta Adams’ Get Here; and Lloyd Banks’ Beamer, Benze, or Bentley. Why Billie Jean? The entry notes are some of the most memorable base notes ever written (imo) and everyone instantly knows their melody. Why Get Here? Deep, hard hitting base with a fantastic attack, yet clear and precise accompaniments with no distractions – other than Oleta’s fabulous voice. It’s easy to focus on the refined qualities of a bass passage. Why Beamer, Benze, or Bentley? If you want to find out what your sub can do this is the song that will tell you. I’m no fan, but I can’t deny the bass. (Hey, this isn’t a popularity contest of music, I want to know what these subs can do!) All songs were listened to multiple times with each sub. P312W: Using the digital display, the sub is set to 0db (Reference) for all three songs. Billie Jean: The bass notes in this piece run one after another. This can give the impression that the sub is loose, but I have to remember it is the nature of the song. Low notes rumble and I could barely feel it in my posterior sitting on the couch some 18 feet away. The main rhythm hits around the 50-60hz mark – above the crossover, and I found myself wanting to give the sub more of the duty as compared to the Klipschorns – being that the subs presentation was confident and very musical. I did not get the impression that the sub was working hard at all. Get Here: Tight. Very tight. The fast attacks of this song are no problem for this sub to reproduce. Clarity and definition are amazing. Bass notes hit, and then they are gone they do not linger. There are parts of the song where a snare will hit exactly when the deepest bass notes are plucked and it actually startled me a couple times because of the quick attack – these, I think, are about 30hz and lower. I was impressed that as fast a snare drum dissipates this sub does that same thing with bass notes. Beamer, Benze, or Bentley: Holy cow. I actually got chills. This sub LOVED this and so did I. The main frequencies in play here are around 45hz and lower. My EQ showed this area to be pegged at +12db very frequently, combined with the sub set at reference. About 80db at my position. Rock solid. It was the kind of bass where your ears start to feel like they are plugged: room filling and overpowering. I turned it up just to see…90db…my whole body was vibrating and it was becoming uncomfortable for both me and the sub, which started to complain to me by getting a bit loose and sloppy. For 12 inches, very nice. RSW-15 has no digital readout to determine level so I had to ‘ballpark’ it to a level that ‘sounded’ similar to the P312W. This ended up being about 1/3rd the rotation of the level knob from lowest to highest. To help illustrate the differences, picture a horizontal line 6 inches long (zero being no level and 6 being max level). The R312W would hit at about the 4.5” – 5” mark, the RSW-15 would be down around the 2” mark. Billie Jean: Deep, guttural base. It almost sounded ½ an octave lower to me than the P312W (because it's coming off the wall?). More raw sounding but at the cost of losing some finesse. I know I’ve heard this sub described as musical, but the Palladium seemed more so. Boomy? Yes compared to the Palladium, if just a little. Yes, it was definitely deeper but perhaps not as defined and more muddled. I felt this sub in my feet way more than the Palladium at the same level. Get Here: I love this sub. It is having no problem filling this room with deep, powerful, tight bass. It does seem a bit more muddled and somehow just not as well matched musically with the Klipschorns. It’s more ‘in your face’ whereas the Palladium was doing its job of accompanying the Klipschorns. Definition seemed lacking. Again it sounds deeper and I am feeling more action at my feet than the Palladium was sending to me. Beamer, Benze, or Bentley: If the P312W was a 15” sub I would want it to perform like RSW-15 performs. As on the Palladium, I started out at around 80db and I was feeling this sub at my feet. It wasn’t even working hard so I went to 90db, which is where the Palladium started to complain. This one? It laughed at me while it gave my rear a nice massage on the couch. I didn’t even keep it at this level for more than a few seconds because I knew my neighbors were getting some of it. But, I didn’t get that same plugged ear feeling. Not as low as the Palladium? doubtful. Harmonics from the Palladium and not so much from the RSW-15? Perhaps. More fun? Hell yes. The RSW-15 had plenty of room to go harder. Much harder. Final thoughts: Looking back this just was not a fair comparison. These are two different classes of subwoofer: 12 inch and 15 inch; one shoots out into the room, the other reflects off of a wall. Their only similarities seem to be that they are both made by Klipsch, both employ passive radiators, and both are enclosed. The P312W is a beautiful subwoofer with the finest craftsmanship you could ask for. In addition to looks, what the Palladium also has over the RSW-15 is finesse and style. It does the job a subwoofer should do without waving a big banner saying “look at me!” Which is sort of baffling, because you want to look at it, it is so damn good looking. I found it to be more musical and overall very smooth. It’s the cool cat thumping out solid bass confidently while the RSW-15 is the bull in a china shop wanting to knock all your dishes off the shelves. For 2 channel audio and if it was 2002 and I had the opportunity to buy an RSW-15 for $1800 or get a P312W for $3000 (lowered for inflation) which would I buy? Hands down, no doubt about it, the RSW-15. Today a used RSW-15 can be had for around $800 depending on condition. A used P312W…well A LOT more than that. I can’t help but think that if they re-released the RSW-15 today in the same box with the same amenities it would be priced at about $3,000 - a full $1,000 less than the P312W. Still a better $ value. But I suppose you are paying that premium for this reason: The P312W was released as part of the Palladium package and you wouldn’t match the RSW-15 with the P39F speakers. You just wouldn’t. It was made to compliment the Palladium mains - period. And after listening to it I can see how it would fit perfectly into that package. And if you’ve got the cash for P39F’s then you aren’t going to worry about what the matching sub costs. I don’t think Klipsch was trying to create a sub that bested the RSW-15, they were making a sub that best fit with their flagship HT speakers. And that’s it in a nutshell. When I got the Palladium I immediately moved the RSW-15 upstairs for HT duty – no side by side necessary. For the comparison I brought the RSW-15 back downstairs, and back downstairs is where it is going to stay. The P312W will go upstairs for HT duty with the Heresy III’s. This configuration makes more sense for my setup.

Spotted this little fella - no clue what it is- thoughts??

Your right that was dumb, but sometimes dumb luck and being in the right place works great. That was so long ago I was single

+1 Good suggestion. Good ribs and the chicken fried steak is HUGE. Quality micro brews as well

I prefer cooking over coals. I found out a couple days ago about lump charcoal. I have yet to try it, but I am looking forward to it.