ssh Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 Military service @ 19 in 1969 wasn't on my wish list, but it turned-out to be the influence that screwed my head on mostly straight. I didn't like Ali's stance against serving, but I came to honour it through his persistence and over that time that he fought against it. It was one of those life lessons when I realized that I was wrong. SSH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fjd Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 I don't want to change the subject, but….in their prime….Ali or Tyson? Completely different styles. Ali the finesse boxer with some power and Tyson the powerful puncher with deceiving hand speed. Maybe could have been a good match. Bill Maybe? I think that would've been the ultimate heavyweight fight. I would go with Tyson, in his prime he was devastating. I would go with Tyson, in his prime he was devastating. Yea..... I'm with Tyson We will never know.... Both Great boxers.... MKP :-) Too bad Tyson couldn’t have lasted for the long-haul. The fight that I would like to see with both in their prime would be George Foreman (not technically a great fighter, but an excellent puncher with 84% knockout percentage in 81 fights) and Mike Tyson (I believe to be a better boxer and one of the most prolific punchers in boxing history), talk about a “home run” derby and constant fireworks with these two guys! I think that different boxing styles can make for an interesting fight. In some respects I think you could put Joe Louis (in his prime before his four years in WWII) and Ali in his prime, both in the same ring and think that I was attending a chess match. When looking at different styles, what I found interesting was how Joe Frazier and Ken Norton (both had a type of style of being hard punchers with that constant all-out relentless attack keeping the inside pressure) could always give Ali fits. Of course, Ali never seemed to learn the classic defense moves such as blocking, parrying and slipping the jab; and seemed to rely more upon his speed, lateral movement and leaning away. Contrast that with someone like Joe Louis, who was a classic defender that knew how to block, parry and dodge the jab, could hold his hands up, keep his chin down and elbows in. Styles sometimes seem to be circular in that a certain style can give a boxer a ‘fighting chance’ against another boxer with a different style; such as Frazier beat Ali; Forman beat Frazier; Ali beat Forman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fjd Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 (edited) I only saw a man that was fearless both in the ring and out. Sports Illustrated named Ali 'The Greatest Athlete of the 20th Century' in 1999. Sports Illustrated was right. Babe Ruth could not only hit, he could pitch too. Jim Thorpe was a multi sport phenomenon. Babe Ruth sure transcends generations in name recognition and for those that have not read about Jim Thorpe, I would suggest they do. To me, it seems that the “all-time best boxer” (Sugar Ray Robinson, maybe?) or “all-time best heavy weight boxer” or “Greatest Athlete of the 20th Century” is more of an opinion that will have strong generational bias and really becomes more of the opinion of “best for a certain generational period.” Whether the person is a sports writer or an individual spectator, the first-hand detailed knowledge will typically cover a span of about 20 – 25 years. For, example, in general, most of the people that I have talked with that actually saw boxing in 1930’s – 1950’s, for the heavy weight division, seem to go with Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano or Jack Dempsey. In general, I find that most in the baby boomer age group tend to prefer Muhammad Ali, while the most recent generations tend to vote for Mike Tyson (along with the “what if” crowd), Evander Holyfield or sometimes I hear Lennox Lewis name thrown out there. Yes, Ali appeared to have gained crossover appeal to people outside of boxing, when boxing was a mainstream sport, which appears to help him tremendously in these types of polls and opinion contests; however, I believe his manner and some of his decisions left a lot to be desired. Having his own self-delusions of grandeur and self-importance is one thing, but trying to elevate that self-importance at the expense of others is in extremely poor taste. Of course, he would be quick to state it was all in the name of promoting the match, but some of the stuff he said should not have been said in any situation. Keep in mind that during Muhammad Ali’s three-year hiatus from boxing for refusing the draft, Joe Frazier was a friend, helped him financially, and actually took the time to testify before Congress and petitioned to have Ali’s right to box reinstated. Muhammad Ali returns these gestures of friendship by “promoting” the first fight with Joe Frazier with his own cultural and political agenda. Of course, he plays the part of the revolutionary and the civil rights champion to all, while he assigns the part to Frazier as being the pawn of the white establishment and an “Uncle Tom.” Bryant Gumbel feels the need to join in and get on the Ali bandwagon and writes a magazine article asking "Is Joe Frazier a white champion with black skin?" So where does this type of behavior leave Joe? Joe becomes isolated from everything and receives death threats and his children are subsequently bullied at school. I don’t believe that anyone deserves that type of treatment, regardless of the type of justification or whether it is just in the name of promoting a boxing match. Edited June 5, 2016 by Fjd 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woofers and Tweeters Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 The media are like buzzards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizRotus Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 (edited) It's an exaggeration to say that I met Ali, but he did visit our frat house in the mid-late 60s. Approximately 20 of us were awed by his presence. He'd just delivered a lecture on campus at MSU, I'm not sure how or why he was persuaded to spend approximately an hour with us. While it was clear that he enjoyed impressing the white boys, he did so in a charming and captivating manner. At one point he opened an attache case to use a phone to call his wife in Chicago. We didn't care if he was having some fun at our expense. We had Muhammad Ali in our living room, eating our food and mesmerizing us with demonstrations of his wit, humor and lightning fast reflexes. The theme of his talk on campus was the need for peaceful progress toward better relations between all people. His views were simultaneously principled and pragmatic. While he was opposed to violence philosophically, he also offered the pragmatic observation that violence was a losing strategy for a minority against the majority. He specifically said that guns against fighter jets was a mismatch. I understand why some disagree with his positions regarding the draft and Vietnam. Nevertheless, I believe he was sincere, as did the Supreme Court of the United States. Apparently, during the two decades he lived in Berrien Springs, MI, he anonymously gave to many individuals and organizations in that small Southwest Michigan community. In addition to being a tremendous athlete, he seems to have been a very good human being. Edited June 5, 2016 by DizRotus 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 (edited) Muff respect to MR Mohammed Ali RIP Muff respect? I'm sure he got plenty of that :o Mark I saw a TV interview with one of Ali's daughters years ago. She said she was grateful that he picked beautiful women, because it's the reason she was blessed with great looks. More impressive to me was that she said Ali would have five or six hotel rooms booked on the night of a fight, each one with a hot babe (I know how that sounds, but "attractive woman" doesn't exactly convey it) in it, waiting for him. After the fight (and presumably a shower), he would go to one room after another, to perform further athletic feats, these ones private. He must have had a very healthy lifestyle to have that much energy. As for the boxing itself, if only he had stopped sooner... Last week I heard on the radio that it was estimated that during his career, Ali had received 29,000 punches to the head. That number sounds extremely high, but even a fraction of that could be enough to cause serious damage to anyone's brain. Boxing has to be one of the worst ways to get rich and famous. Edited June 8, 2016 by Islander Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prerich Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 I don't want to change the subject, but….in their prime….Ali or Tyson? Ali...can't hit what you can't touch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 I strongly disagree. Tyson just plowed through people - you can't run forever. I think people have forgotten just how powerful and devastating his punches were, and he had lightening speed combinations. I don't think Ali would have lasted five rounds with that animal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimbo Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 I strongly disagree. Tyson just plowed through people - you can't run forever. I think people have forgotten just how powerful and devastating his punches were, and he had lightening speed combinations. I don't think Ali would have lasted five rounds with that animal. Once again, refer to Rumble in the Jungle.....watch the film "When We Were Kings". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJkizak Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 I strongly disagree. Tyson just plowed through people - you can't run forever. I think people have forgotten just how powerful and devastating his punches were, and he had lightening speed combinations. I don't think Ali would have lasted five rounds with that animal. Once again, refer to Rumble in the Jungle.....watch the film "When We Were Kings". The plowing technique literally overwhelms people but Ali could back up faster than the plowie could plow. JJK 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 Deano... you got my number... cann you give a call? Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckAb3 Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 These generational debates about boxers and other sports heroes have been going on literally for generations. My dad and grandfather loved to bait me with them and tell me how Joe Louis or Marciano would have destroyed Ali or Frazier, etc. Same with baseball. Fact is we'll never know. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twk123 Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 A bit off topic but Kimbo Slice died as well two days ago on June 6. Nowhere near the fame or stature of Ali but anyone in their 20's can attest to summer afternoons of watching his old street fights and MMA entrance. I remember watching him beat Ray Mercer in one of his first MMA ring fights and it was a strange generation span type of thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 (edited) I've seen all of Ali's fights several times. I really don't think "Rope-a-Dope" would have worked with Tyson. Besides, that was the slower Ali, who used holding in the clinch to slow the fight down. Tyson pushed out of those pretty easily and would counter with vicious combinations. Tyson's style was developed to counter the jab - I think it would have been ugly for Ali. He also would have gotten his ear chewed off. Edited June 9, 2016 by Deang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 He also would have gotten his ear chewed off. Yea there is that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 Hi Bruce, I'm not accepting any work. Still want the call? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 Good read: https://sports.vice.com/en_us/article/a-brutally-honest-look-at-mike-tyson-versus-muhammad-ali 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 Yes Hi Bruce, I'm not accepting any work. Still want the call? Yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizRotus Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 TIME has Ali on the cover and interesting articles inside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceptorman Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 That's cool. He's also on the SI cover, for the 40th time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.