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Speedy6963

FORTE III as a 2 WAY !!!!

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The K-107-ti is indeed a formidable tweeter.

 

It sounds like it comes on strong lower too.

 

It completely overpowered the mids when I subbed it into my Cornwall 2’s. That is until I put titanium diaphragms in the mids...

 

Has anyone done a straight swap for a K-77 in a LaScala or Cornwall 1 application?

 

I too would love to see the frequency response chart for this tweeter.

 

Anyone? Beuller?

 

 

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OK folks, a tinkerer is going to tinker.  Please let him tinker if he is so compelled.:P

 

Imagine if Carroll Shelby had just left the Mustang well enough alone.:unsure:

 

He took this 

Image result for 65 mustang fastback

 

and made it this

Image result for 65 Shelby GT 350

 

Bill

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Anyone can tinker--I have 10 speakers available for my use.

3 Klipsch Towers

3 Polk Towers

4 Polk Bookies

Any one of these can sound crappy with the wrong settings.

Any system I put together can sound great with attention to

setting in the electronics.

Most of the time a system sounds bad--if quality products are used.

it's operator error and bad settings--not knowing how to use equipment.

 

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2 hours ago, rebuy said:

Anyone can tinker--I have 10 speakers available for my use.

3 Klipsch Towers

3 Polk Towers

4 Polk Bookies

Any one of these can sound crappy with the wrong settings.

Any system I put together can sound great with attention to

setting in the electronics.

Most of the time a system sounds bad--if quality products are used.

it's operator error and bad settings--not knowing how to use equipment.

 

Tone controls are the MOST abused item in the hifi world !

 

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There are ways to tame speakers without tone controls

which I didn't mention.

I'd use tone controls before I altered a $1800 speaker.

I can change the tone  of my system without tone controls.

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43 minutes ago, Speedy6963 said:

Tone controls are the MOST abused item in the hifi world !

 

 

To each there own. I personally wouldn't buy a pre amp that doesn't have tone controls. 

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58 minutes ago, Md5150 said:

 

To each there own. I personally wouldn't buy a pre amp that doesn't have tone controls. 

If you need tone controls you have speakers that are not accurate

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31 minutes ago, Speedy6963 said:

If you need tone controls you have speakers that are not accurate

 

I can't agree since each environment is different and everyone hears differently.

And if the speaker is Not accurate you can always just start disconnecting drivers.

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Sadly I agree.  Every room is different.  Give me a set of speakers with selectable l-pad settings, not pots, and that is the way to go.  I find that many pots aren't really going to be accurate for an l-pad of a desired series and parallel resistance weighed against an particular crossover point.  A set of plugs or switches to set the proper level in DB (high quality high power fixed resistors), that'd be the way to go.  Forget tone controls.

 

That said, very few speakers allow for this customization so tone controls or eq are likely only ways. :huh:

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6 hours ago, Speedy6963 said:

If you need tone controls you have speakers that are not accurate

 

Couldn't disagree more.  Not to flame but audiophiles look down their noses at tone controls while music lovers find them essential.  ..I'm the latter.  

 

There are sooo many recordings of great great music that are hard to listen to b/c the recording itself is tipped up, too bright.  ..An accurate hifi system will pass this right along to the listener.  Until you can go back in time and re-record these songs, a  small turn of the treble control makes these songs more enjoyable.   

 

While on the subject, I also think a MONO switch is essential.  ..In the early days of stereo recording engineers would do silly things like have the singer coming out of the right channel while his acoustic guitar would come from the left.  ..Totally screwy.  ..Hitting the MONO switch will bring the singer and his guitar back together.  ..Lots of early Beatles songs were like this.

 

So my advice to budding audiophiles is always to look for an integrated amp (or Pre-amp) with  these basic tools and use them at your discretion.

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1 hour ago, ODS123 said:

 

Couldn't disagree more.  Not to flame but audiophiles look down their noses at tone controls while music lovers find them essential.  ..I'm the latter.  

 

 

That's a gross generalization that isn't true... polarized opposites don't hold true. 

It's a matter of personalization that you seem to have need to try and shoehorn all music into a small slice of the sound spectrum in order to enjoy it... that's your choice.

I find tone changes can have the effect of flattening the image by equalizing all frequencies and I don't like it... that's my choice.

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28 minutes ago, Schu said:

 

That's a gross generalization that isn't true...

 

You're right, I should have said "tended to be"   To restate, "Audiophiles tend to look down their noses at tone controls, while music lovers tend to find them essential."

 

I stand by the rest of what I said. 

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1 hour ago, ODS123 said:

There are sooo many recordings of great great music that are hard to listen to b/c the recording itself is tipped up, too bright.  ..An accurate hifi system will pass this right along to the listener.  Until you can go back in time and re-record these songs, a  small turn of the treble control makes these songs more enjoyable.   

"Accurate" tone controls can make a huge improvement.  The tone controls on my Yamaha A-S1000 are by far the best designed and pleasing I have ever used.

 

Bill

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9 hours ago, Speedy6963 said:

If you need tone controls you have speakers that are not accurate

 

I disagree.  Accurate speakers may render poor recordings unlistenable.  Unless you have the time and expertise to demaster poor recordings, as advocated by @Chris A, tone controls are a possible solution to tame poor recordings.

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I hope everyone can watch their "tone" :D Kidding, calm down.

 

Accurate speakers...what does that really mean?  I use that all the time in describing speakers, but I don't think it's an "accurate" representation.  Everything in line of your playback equipment is going to affect the tone, change it from what it sounded like on stage, or in the studio (not to mention the equipment and processing during recording and mastering).  Then, your room, your ears, your brain.  The placement of the speakers, the toe, where you sit, how high or low you sit.  The materials in the room.  The ugly Christmas sweater you're wearing, your haircut, ear wax buildup.  :P

 

Two different speakers can measure "flat" or darn close to it, being practically identical according to the graph.  But will they sound the same?  No.  The speaker box, the speaker network, the drivers, all affect a change.

 

I usually listen with no tone applied from my pre, but sometimes I might nudge bass or treble a touch depending on mood and the music I'm listening to.

 

Modifying the speaker will change it too of course.  I think it's great you're doing what you want with your speakers.  Taking offense at that is kind of pointless.  

 

 

 

 

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I don't think a 2-way forte III is that much of a stretch considering the mid driver appears to be the same or very similar to the one used in the RF 7 II where that driver and horn operate from 1200hz-20khz. Even way back when the forte II was first developed it was discovered that with a little crossover work that mid driver / horn combo would work in 2-way design which led to the KG / Epic and KLF series back in the early mid '90's and eventually the Reference line. 

 

 

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My opinion is just let the guy experiment with his speakers as he wishes.  It's his hard earned money that paid for them so he can tinker to his hearts content.  Maybe it's not what everyone would do but we are each different and opinionated as such.  if it works out, yay for him and I hope it's an enjoyable listening experience.  I do wonder, of course, if the speakers were heard in advance somewhere before purchasing or if they were ordered "sight unseen".  I'd have a hard time buying car before I took it for a test drive.  Kind of like a wife.  :D  

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I believe that Neil and a few others are referring to the "Circle of Confusion" that Floyd Toole talks about so much:

 

https://www.harman.com/sites/default/files/white-paper/12/11/2015 - 06%3A20/files/LoudspeakersandRoomsPt2.pdf

 

The stereo recordings that you own aren't "reference"...and I have never seen one that is, at least when talking about stereo recordings on phonograph records and CDs. 

 

Newly recorded DVD-As and multichannel SACDs (with pedigree of never having being converted into PCM for editing and then back to DSD on disc) may be a different story, but I've found few audiophiles that own these type of discs.

 

12 hours ago, Speedy6963 said:

Tone controls are the MOST abused item in the hifi world !

If this is true, then you're probably not talking about "audiophiles" that take great pride in eliminating all EQ (except of course the RIAA reverse EQ curve used in phonograph record preamps with over 40 dB of total correction).  I've seen a lot of people in the hi-fi world look down on EQ, but they never have looked at the recordings that they play on their hi-fi rigs.  If they did, they would never say "I've eliminated EQ in my setup" again with a straight face...:wink:

 

Personally, I think that modifying the frequency response of the loudspeakers using passive crossovers...to fix music recording EQ issues...is a unique form of insanity that seems to reside in the audiophile hi-fi world, and the notion is based on the mistaken impression that their recordings are "reference". 

 

I've always found that correcting the problem at its source is the best and most effective solution possible.  Try it on your recordings once...then judge the results using your ears:

 

 

Chris

 

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1 hour ago, avguytx said:

My opinion is just let the guy experiment with his speakers as he wishes.  It's his hard earned money that paid for them so he can tinker to his hearts content.  Maybe it's not what everyone would do but we are each different and opinionated as such.  if it works out, yay for him and I hope it's an enjoyable listening experience.  I do wonder, of course, if the speakers were heard in advance somewhere before purchasing or if they were ordered "sight unseen".  I'd have a hard time buying car before I took it for a test drive.  Kind of like a wife.  :D  

 

Well said and what I have been thinking. Whether it is a matter of space or was Intent on the new F3's maybe the two-way 396 with factory home-finished cabinets or one of the Crites Cornscala designs. I've heard the 396 which is intend a pro-line speaker and would imagine the Cornscala is a great 15in. two-way. Albeit without the newest "mumps" horn. 

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