Dave A Posted May 27, 2022 Share Posted May 27, 2022 2 hours ago, ODS123 said: Wow! In all of my years of participating in online forums I have never had my views more grotesquely mischaracterized. I don’t believe Klipsch pro gear is junk, so I never said it, and I have never implied it. It was you who said modern Klipsch heritage speakers made with MDF are junk. In brief I said the pro Klipsch gear is made with plywood because it is meant to be mounted and used in PA settings. You persisted saying the MDF gear is junk because it is difficult to repair or refinish if it gets wet. Which is a ridiculous criticism because none of the other gear in my, or anyone else’s, system is waterproof. I invite you to find any of my comments that suggest the Pro gear is junk. In the thread "Best Cornwall....?" starting on page 4 and on for a while. Page 4 is also where you basically said Roy does not know what he is doing. It was worth digging that old thread up and re-reading it was fun. Invitation accepted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornukopia Posted May 27, 2022 Share Posted May 27, 2022 Myth or fact? Some people just like to argue. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curious_George Posted May 27, 2022 Share Posted May 27, 2022 2 hours ago, Shakeydeal said: Does anybody remember the slightly slow kid in grade school that tried really hard to fit in, but never did? Grade school? Heck , unfortunately , I worked with a few who were adults ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander Posted May 27, 2022 Share Posted May 27, 2022 3 hours ago, ODS123 said: Wow! In all of my years of participating in online forums I have never had my views more grotesquely mischaracterized. I don’t believe Klipsch pro gear is junk, so I never said it, and I have never implied it. It was you who said modern Klipsch heritage speakers made with MDF are junk. In brief I said the pro Klipsch gear is made with plywood because it is meant to be mounted and used in PA settings. You persisted saying the MDF gear is junk because it is difficult to repair or refinish if it gets wet. Which is a ridiculous criticism because none of the other gear in my, or anyone else’s, system is waterproof. I invite you to find any of my comments that suggest the Pro gear is junk. Are you sure that was aimed at you? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ODS123 Posted May 27, 2022 Share Posted May 27, 2022 1 hour ago, Dave A said: In the thread "Best Cornwall....?" starting on page 4 and on for a while. Page 4 is also where you basically said Roy does not know what he is doing. It was worth digging that old thread up and re-reading it was fun. Invitation accepted. please... Copy/ paste this comment to which you refer. And you're now adding a new misquote, that I said "Roy does not know what he is doing". Again, either post the comment you're referring to or apologize. I NEVER said EITHER of those things you allege. Btw, the new CW4 is made w/ MDF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ODS123 Posted May 27, 2022 Share Posted May 27, 2022 Just now, Islander said: Are you sure that was aimed at you? Yes. Dave A has a thing for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rigma Posted May 27, 2022 Share Posted May 27, 2022 On 5/26/2022 at 7:05 AM, jimjimbo said: BRANDON Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimbo Posted May 27, 2022 Share Posted May 27, 2022 Brilliant, just brilliant.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander Posted May 27, 2022 Share Posted May 27, 2022 1 minute ago, ODS123 said: Yes. Dave A has a thing for me I hope he hasn’t sent you a picture of it... As for who said what to whom about whomever, I kind of tune out when the discussion wanders away from the technical stuff, so I lose track of who are the players and who are the played. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ODS123 Posted May 27, 2022 Share Posted May 27, 2022 22 minutes ago, Islander said: As for who said what to whom about whomever, I kind of tune out Which is the right thing to do. I need to learn how to not take the bait. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MicroMara Posted May 27, 2022 Share Posted May 27, 2022 a thread the world doesn´t need 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalifornian Posted May 27, 2022 Share Posted May 27, 2022 1 hour ago, MicroMara said: a thread the world doesn´t need 99.9 percent of the internet is this to one extent or another… 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted May 28, 2022 Author Share Posted May 28, 2022 6 hours ago, 001 said: I get ya , tell me @ODS123 do you like fishing . it sure beats the keyboard gossip on this Forum Look in the mirror. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OO1 Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 LOL ... 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted May 28, 2022 Author Share Posted May 28, 2022 From Bill Fitzmaurice: "I break in woofers overnight, using a sine wave somewhat lower than Fs just sufficient to bring the excursion close to xmax. This has never failed to bring Fs down to spec. If Fs is good the rest will be as well. The break in of midrange and high frequency elements has never proven to take as long or to deliver as much of a change, so those I don't bother with. IME both those who deny that break-in occurs and those who claim that it takes extended time periods to do so have never actually measured either the changes in the specs or the changes in response. I'm especially wary of manufacturers who claim silly lengths of break-in time, like 400 hours. All that accomplishes is to push the break-in window past the satisfaction guarantee return window." To be clear. I never claimed that break in didn't occur or didn't matter. I only called it's exaggeration thereof as being a Myth, or close to one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyrc Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 Warm-up (not break-in): A friend of my cousin was a 70 mm projectionist in the early days of roadshow Todd-AO, with it's super dynamic, beautiful 6 channel sound. The Todd-AO people (Magna? Ampex? JBL?) specified that the sound equipment be warmed-up for 30 minutes. Back then, the amplifiers were tube types. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted May 28, 2022 Moderators Share Posted May 28, 2022 16 hours ago, Shakeydeal said: The only thing laughable is how you think you need to "save" the audiophile community from themselves. Broken record indeed...... I was thinking it was more in line with the "dead horse" analogy, maybe it needed tenderizing before a BBQ on Monday. There is a whole website where they are very devoted to believing that nothing exists unless: 1. It's measurable and/or 2. It can be consistently detected with DBT. They, generally, are adamant that all tube amps are technically inferior to solid state, and that there is no sonic difference between amps. I'm sure he would get many, many takers on his offer from members who purchased new speakers, to do exactly that. In addition, he could probably get the "tester/reviewers" to run tests right out of the box, at 5 hours, 10 hours, 20, 50, 100 and 200 hours. First they will need to discuss what kind of music, and at what level, how to make it consistent, and then reduce that to written protocols. That will take them about 24 pages of discussion, but they will get there. Floyd Toole and Sean Olive are in that group and pop in occasionally so it must all on the up and up and will get everyone to the bottom line, absolute scientific truth - or another debate about how the protocols are wrong and you need to burn in with test tones or you will have flawed results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted May 28, 2022 Moderators Share Posted May 28, 2022 You guys are not asking @Chief bonehead the right questions. @Edgar you have also observed "measurable changes" in new drivers over time (albeit, the changes were less significant, or not significant for your purposes - if I recall that correctly). How did you run those drivers in? Music, single tone, pink noise? Someone should ask Roy where he came up with the protocols he described earlier in this thread. (For wooders a percentage of max excursion for 20 minutes at a particular frequency, for compression drivers, 20 minutes at a certain frequency (I don't know if he said at what voltage or power level for those). How did he come up with that to know that it would get drivers in their natural state to the point he wouldn't be waiting him time in starting to design the balancing networks? Was it trial and error? Plain dumb luck? Something PWK came up with. A driver manufacturer's recommendation, based on data? An AES paper or other professional journal? Why a specific test tone, why not band limited pink noise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted May 28, 2022 Moderators Share Posted May 28, 2022 2 hours ago, garyrc said: Warm-up (not break-in): A friend of my cousin was a 70 mm projectionist in the early days of roadshow Todd-AO, with it's super dynamic, beautiful 6 channel sound. The Todd-AO people (Magna? Ampex? JBL?) specified that the sound equipment be warmed-up for 30 minutes. Back then, the amplifiers were tube types. That was all Ampex. And they knew it needed to be on for 30 minutes from the Ampex Instrumentation recorders developed for the US Navy (White Sands MR). The recorders, modulators and demodulators were all turned on at least 30 minutes before a test. The same for all NASA tests with Ampex instrumentation recorders and associated equipment. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted May 28, 2022 Moderators Share Posted May 28, 2022 12 hours ago, ClaudeJ1 said: Pro Klipsch gear outperforms 90% of the multi-way electro-acoustic transducers on the market by any measurable metric in the process of having both, a qualifiable and quantifiable standards. It's 99.99% magnets and coils applied to moving air, with a few exotic exceptions...............very few at 0.01%. Case and point. You could go back to the 80's Klipsch Pro offerings in the used market, get a HIP "The Industrial Klipsch Heresy employs a high efficiency K-42 bass driver with a 100-watt input rating. This 12" driver incorporates a 77 oz. magnet with a 2 1/2" voice coil, resulting in a sensitivity 6 dB higher than that of the standard Heresy. Two cabinet styles incorporating the high efficiency driver system are available: a ported rectangular box (HIP) and a sealed five-sided box with a 90-degree back angle (HISM). The Klipsch Heresy Industrial Ported (HIP) provides solid bass response to 70Hz (high-pass filtering at 12dB or more per octave below 55Hz is recommended)." - Klipsch Very true that. But they require 500 hours of break in, so there is that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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