Subs for La Scala's?

[beaufleuve]

I know this topic has been covered here in the past, but wondering what the latest advice is for subwoofers for new La Scalas. Right now leaning toward some RSL Speedwoofers or some Rythmiks, but even there not sure what to get. Am going to get an SPL meter as well.

 

The La Scalas are paired with a Pioneer SX-780 right now; I have a Decware Zen Triode on order. The room is large, not sealed. I play loud, mostly rock, country and classical. 

 

Thanks.

[wuzzzer]

Any kind of horn sub.  

[Shakeydeal]

Rhythmik subs are a good choice. I almost bought a pair but ended up with HSU instead. Whatever your choice, you’ll want to pair them with one of these.

 

https://www.dspeaker.com/anti-mode-8033

[Flevoman]

I also own the Al-5, and while I don't have an immediate need for a sub, I am considering adding a horn sub to the system in the future. Daan from this forum suggested replicating the basscabin of the Klipschorn and, if you don't have corners available (like me), placing it on its side against a wall. The floor and wall would then act as the necessary extension of the horn. I thought it was a fantastic idea to add sub-bass using a horn to your system.

[JohnA]

Having gone from 1 to 2 to 4 subwoofers, I'll recommend at least 2, placed near mid wall on opposing walls.  Second choice would be near the corners, but the 3rd wall may disturb the frequency response too much.  I also will recommend getting subs with 15" drivers (or larger) to minimize excursion and thus harmonic distortion.  I have not heard the 2 you listed, but there are several available with excellent performance. 

 

Also, remember, if you can "hear" a subwoofer and tell it's there, it is 10 dB too loud.  You might like that, but it is not accurate. 

[beaufleuve]

thanks! will check out the suggestions. if anyone's pairing la scala's with rhythmics, would love to hear about them. 

[MMurg]

I agree with @wuzzzer that you should get a horn sub.  Any direct radiator sub will have more distortion compared to the La Scala bass bins and will not sound as clean and lifelike.  As my Heritage Jubilee have taught me, there's nothing like horn-loading throughout the entire audio range.

[Islander]

I agree that a horn-loaded sub is ideal for horn-loaded speakers, but I went with direct-firing subwoofers.  Why?  For two reasons:  first, I didn't see any sensible-sized subs for sale at sensible prices.  That's two reasons.  The second one was the price.  While there are lots of kits and plans available, I have neither the skill nor the space to build a sub, since I live in a condo apartment.  

 

However, if you choose sensibly, I think you can find a sub that will pair up with La Scalas, the OG model or the La Scala II/AL4, play with minimum distortion, and easily cover the bottom two or three octaves that are out of reach of the "portable-sized" La Scala bass horns.  I'll add more later.                        

[Chief bonehead]

Patience….

[Islander]

17 minutes ago, Chief bonehead said:

Patience….

 

Hmm...

[Shakeydeal]

I agree with @Islander

 

While horn loaded subs would be ideal, you can have excellent results with conventional subwoofers. With the added DSP on the HSU subs, they blend perfectly with my LS IIs. You absolutely cannot discern that there are subwoofers in the room, you would think that that extended, well defined bass was all coming from the lascalas.

[the real Duke Spinner]

What Wuzzzer sed. 🙂

[Islander]

On 7/30/2023 at 12:13 PM, Islander said:

I agree that a horn-loaded sub is ideal for horn-loaded speakers, but I went with direct-firing subwoofers.  Why?  For two reasons:  first, I didn't see any sensible-sized subs for sale at sensible prices.  That's two reasons.  The second one was the price.  While there are lots of kits and plans available, I have neither the skill nor the space to build a sub, since I live in a condo apartment.  

 

However, if you choose sensibly, I think you can find a sub that will pair up with La Scalas, the OG model or the La Scala II/AL4, play with minimum distortion, and easily cover the bottom two or three octaves that are out of reach of the "portable-sized" La Scala bass horns.  I'll add more later.                        

 

Adding more later.  This explanation is intended for people who don't know about Paradigm speakers or subwoofers, or Anthem DSP software, so it it seems too obvious or simple, it's not because you're too smart.  Not everybody knows everything.  The Paradigm subs can be ordered with the Perfect Bass Kit (it's included at no charge with their higher-end models), which includes a tripod and an individually calibrated microphone, plus the necessary two USB cables.  You can set it up for individual listening, in which case you place the microphone in 5 different locations around your listening position, at least 2 ft/60 cm apart.  If you're setting up your sub(s) for multiple listeners, you set the microphones at up to 10 locations (minimum 5 locations) around the room.

 

This lets the DSP program sense the attributes of the listening room, its size, shape, sound absorption, reflectivity, and so on, by using test tones that emanate from the sub and are picked up by the microphone, placed around the listening position at 5-10 spots.  The microphone has a number on its label, which you punch in to the PBK program.  The microphones are tested before they're sent out, and the curve of each one is kept on file.  Then, when you punch in the number of the mic, its curve is loaded into the program, for maximum precision.

 

When you've placed the microphone in the suggested positions, on your display you see the uncorrected curve of the sub in its place in your room.  Then, it shows the correction curve which will be applied.  It's the reverse/inverse? of the original curve, and once it's applied, the sub's curve becomes more like a straight line.  You can hear the difference immediately!  Its been a couple of years since I did the routine, so I don't remember all the details, but I think you can store the curves, maybe for different configurations of the room?

 

Paradigm makes the kit, and it was developed in cooperation with the National Research Council (NRC) In Ottawa, but there's some connection with Anthem (ARC) and Martin Logan, who also sell the kit.  On the Paradigm page, it's marked as discontinued, but I have no idea what's up with that.  It seems to be available on the Martin Logan page.

 

The Paradigm page:  https://www.paradigm.com/en/accessories/perfect-bass-kit

 

The Martin Logan page (the first picture seems to be the recommended positions where you should place the microphone for several listeners, not that you need to buy 5 of them):  https://www.martinlogan.com/en/product/pbk-perfect-bass-kit

 

Crutchfield also has them in stock:  https://www.crutchfield.com/S-htTXvPWAeTl/p_839PBK/MartinLogan-Perfect-Bass-Kit.html

[Smitty8451]

On 7/30/2023 at 6:25 PM, Chief bonehead said:

Patience….

I’ll wait, I know it will be worth it. I have AL5’s signed by you, there phenomenal.

Edited August 6, 2023 by Smitty8451
Add pics

[Shakeydeal]

* They’re 

[mikebse2a3]

On 7/30/2023 at 9:25 PM, Chief bonehead said:

Patience….

 

I bet they will be awesome especially with Heritage… 👍🙂

 

Spotted this on a facebook post for those interested…

 

miketn

 

[Islander]

1 hour ago, mikebse2a3 said:

 

I bet they will be awesome especially with Heritage… 👍🙂

 

Spotted this on a facebook post for those interested…

 

miketn

 

 

Is that a 1502 subwoofer, or an actual centre speaker?

[Marvel]

Too small... maybe there's a 1202 in the works.

 

... and nice to put PWK in the shot.

[Shakeydeal]

@Smitty8451

 

Your imaging would be so much better if you’d pull the speakers forward about a ft or so. You’ve got way too much stuff in between them. It really does make a difference.

 

Actually I’d go 2 ft.

[dtel]

16 hours ago, Islander said:

 

Is that a 1502 subwoofer, or an actual centre speaker?

Nope, way to small, 4 of those would be a little closer.

 

11 hours ago, Marvel said:

Too small... maybe there's a 1202 in the works.

I don't think so, still way to small for a 1202,  must be something new.

 

But a horn so I like it already.