Grizzog Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 So I'm trying to figure out what it is about the look/sound of horns that is all but shunned in the audiophile community. I've been to multiple high end shops and most of the people there shake their head and want to run screaming from the room when I mention horns. I've heard things like they are "honky", they shout at you, shrill, etc. A lot of people won't even listen to a horn and proclaim it horrible just by sight. It's almost like saying dome tweeters are horrible because they're too round. For me, as a musician, I have found horns to be much more lifelike in their presentation. I have no bias towards any speaker, however, and I will base my opinion on what I hear. I do wonder if you did a blind test, if those that proclaim horns terrible, would change their mind. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teaman Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 I for one love horn speakers. I have never been disappointed with Klipsch offerings as far as their sound and clarity, although the fit and finish are sometimes in question. There are indeed many who shun the horns for being too harsh but I have never felt that way. I have seen several favorable reviews about the pricey but beautiful Avant-Garde horn loaded speakers. I always get a kick out of the magazines that praise a two way bookshelf speaker with a five inch woofer that costs $6k.... very few want to glorify a nice pair of Klipsch offerings. I wish Klipsch would stop overstating their sensitivity though, nothing worse than seeing the speakers bench tested and the rated sensitivity drops from 98db to 93db or something relative to that. As far as capability I think Klipsch speakers shine with rock music as few others can and the horns help to create an amazing soundstage. By the way, I would love to hear some of those Avant-Gardes... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tromprof Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 (edited) Horns offend the high dollar sensibility of "audiophiles". The fact that my cheap horns sound better than systems costing 10s of thousands is taken as an insult. It is like a lot of high dollar snobishness, senseless and purposely ignorant. Good for us though, keeps our prices down. Edited October 19, 2015 by tromprof 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minermark Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 The wife agrees, we will NOT own a "Sound Repoduction Device" without it being Horn equipted. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebuy Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 My Klipsch are down for the moment--due to upgrade work being done so we're listening to another major brand while we wait. The other brand is a nice speaker and is the middle of that line. They don't sound as good as our Klipsch entry level speakers--to my old ears. The Klipsch is way more dynamic and clear--a sound we all prefer here at home. The horn speaker sounds more natural to us and we can't wait to get them back into our system. We're glad we brought Klipsch. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 (edited) So I'm trying to figure out what it is about the look/sound of horns that is all but shunned in the audiophile community. I've been to multiple high end shops and most of the people there shake their head and want to run screaming from the room when I mention horns. I've heard things like they are "honky", they shout at you, shrill, etc. A lot of people won't even listen to a horn and proclaim it horrible just by sight. ...For me, as a musician, I have found horns to be much more lifelike in their presentation. I have no bias towards any speaker, however, and I will base my opinion on what I hear. I do wonder if you did a blind test, if those that proclaim horns terrible, would change their mind. Strongly negative and persistent memeplexes at work. The best loudspeakers on the planet are horn loaded. That's probably why those shops don't carry them. If you are talking about fully horn-loaded loudspeakers - they're big. If you are talking about horn-loaded tweeters--there are a lot of loudspeakers using horns. If you're talking about horn-loaded midrange-tweeters (one horn, one driver) they're usually big. If you're talking about horn-loaded bass bins, they're big. Most people with no real domain knowledge don't have a clue. This especially includes those that read only audiophile magazines and believe that they know something about sound reproduction. They don't. The only factors that are important to them are snob appeal ("how much does it cost?"), how they look (believe it...), and how small they are. All of those factors have little to do with the fidelity of the loudspeakers to reproduce music. The most important advances in horn-loaded loudspeakers have really occurred in the last 10-20 years or so. There are a LOT of extremely poor horns out there, in fact most of them, IMO. Most good sounding horns have straight sides: most "honky" and "frying eggs" sound horns have strongly curved throats and/or slots in their throats. Few understand how to design good sounding horns, apparently. They also don't know fidelity if it hit them like a brick. If you are a musician, trust your ears. I do mine. Chris Edited October 19, 2015 by Chris A 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyrc Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Fully horn-loaded spealers provide less profit for the dealers, at least some of the time, I've heard. They are labor-intensive to build. So some dealers talk them down. Once a falsehood lands on the Internet, it will never die. Even before the Internet, maybe c. 1980, anti-horn mythology began to spread. New dealers, with little capital, and high rent, because those districts were where the $$$ were, began to mad-mouth horns. It would have been very expensive for them to stock Klipschorns, or one of the JBL big horn systems. I sometimes wonder if they ever heard one. My ears tell me that horns have better dynamics and, to use a phrase borrowed from Sheffield, more "thereness." They are also more revealing of defects in recording. Most of the horns out there now (that I've heard) are pretty good, IMO. Heritage were always good. There were some cheap and horrible horns put in Magnavox consoles, or for sale at electronics stores. That didn't help the rep. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzydog Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 The misconceptions are interesting. Most people probably don't even realize they're listening to horn loaded drivers when they're at a live concert or movie theater. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sancho Panza Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Thanks to the electrical engineering prof who owned the hi-fi shop in the town where I went to college!!!! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Richard Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Jealousy because they don't have the room for horns. They listen to other speakers for reference purposes, not live sound. They listen to salesmen's bullshit, and are stupid enough to believe it. Most have not heard a properly set up home system with horns. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted October 19, 2015 Moderators Share Posted October 19, 2015 (edited) Well the answer is right there on the internet, from Wikipedia, from Horn Loudspeaker section: "The main advantage of horn loudspeakers is they are more efficient; they can typically produce 10 times (10 dB) more sound power than a cone speaker from a given amplifier output. Therefore horns are widely used in public address systems, megaphones, and sound systems for large venues like theaters, auditoriums, and sports stadiums. Their disadvantage is that their frequency response is more uneven because of resonance peaks, and horns have a cutoff frequency below which their response drops off. To achieve adequate response at bass frequencies horn speakers must be very large and cumbersome, so they are more often used for midrange and high frequencies. The first practical loudspeakers, introduced around the turn of the 20th century, were horn speakers. Due to the development in recent decades of more efficient cone loudspeakers, which have a flatter frequency response, use of horn speakers in high fidelity audio systems has declined." There you have it, horns have a lack of flat frequency response. Edited October 19, 2015 by dwilawyer 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 They don't sound as good as our Klipsch entry level speakers--to my old ears. The Klipsch is way more dynamic and clear--a sound we all prefer here at home. The horn speaker sounds more natural to us and we can't wait to get them back into our system. We're glad we brought Klipsch. Many excellent points in this excellent thread. IMPO, horns are much more demanding in terms of clarity and purity of the electronic and wiring input. I can't stand horn systems with opaque and fizzy-sounding electronics, irritating cabling, and non-linear sound sources. Flaws in ANY of these aspects are amazingly obvious on good horn systems. Other, non-horn systems cover them over. That's why tubes and horns are such a good mix. Horn efficiency creates gain-matching and electronic noise issues. Again, most of these are covered over with the more common levels of efficiency. And, most of us Klipschophiles are very demanding! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 That's why tubes and horns are such a good mix. Tubes cover the flaws that horns find. That's why some like tubes with horns. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzog Posted October 19, 2015 Author Share Posted October 19, 2015 I think there is something to the "how much do they cost?" High end is obscenely priced in some areas. A certain company that has basically recreated the La Scalas, audiophiles say are great, and the price is way out of the range I would consider reasonable. Do things have to reach a certain price point to be considered good? I love music and like I stated I have no bias for what speakers will sound like. However, if you come to listen to my setup or talk to me about sound, check your audiophile notions at the door. [emoji38] Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Musicians are the ones who point out the emperors lack of clothing. Rock on dude. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfbane Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Silly me, when it comes to speakers I just trust my ears when they tell me what they like. And I listen to them. Every time. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MORE KLIPSCH PLEASE Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Yea baby give me those horns......from my wall-O-Klipsch at my house.....to my Klipsch at my shop....I am surrounded by horn loaded speakers..... Now I do own some other non-horn loaded speakers......and they do have good sound.....if they didn't they would be gone.... But it's those Klipsch that bring the goose bumps to me.... MKP :-) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IB Slammin Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 That's why tubes and horns are such a good mix.[/quote Tubes cover the flaws that horns find. That's why some like tubes with horns. [/quot Timer, that is one of the more honest and correct answers that I have seen here in a long time. To my ear most SS amps have a harsh grain quality and can honk with horns. That said, there are SS power amps that have tube sounding properties. I like the sound of that kind of SS power amps with a tube preamp and tube buffered CDP. Horns don't require tube amps to sound good but tubes do cure many ills. tc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted October 20, 2015 Moderators Share Posted October 20, 2015 Thanks to the electrical engineering prof who owned the hi-fi shop in the town where I went to college!!!! Now that is cool. Do you mind sharing where that might be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David H Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Some horns speakers sound lousy, some exceptional, the same goes for cone speakers. I don't think jealousy has anything to do with it. I am sure vendors are simply promoting what they sell, and what is profitable. Dave 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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