How do I get bass out of Klipsch Cornwall IV?

[MEH Synergy]

You are a digital guy it seems? I saw nothing but a DAC in your list.   Ditch the Preamp, not needed. Every Preamp I have tried between a high quality DAC and an amp always made things worse.  I settled on an RME ADI-2 FS DAC.   Has gone controls, parametric eq, long range remote and more gain than a lot of line stages without degradation to the DAC conversion. 

[geoff.]

12 minutes ago, Kalifornian said:

From my experience the "affordable" dsp solutions are way too noisy for high sensitivity speakers.  It wasnt till i moved to the xillica 4080 before it all just worked and sound awesome.

 

This forum is filled with the accounts of others that share that experience.

 

Put another way, you get what you pay for.

 

For an analogue solution I have noticed the Schiit Loki get favourable reviews.

[Shakeydeal]

3 hours ago, Westcoastdrums said:

You are a digital guy it seems? I saw nothing but a DAC in your list.   Ditch the Preamp, not needed. Every Preamp I have tried between a high quality DAC and an amp always made things worse.  I settled on an RME ADI-2 FS DAC.   Has gone controls, parametric eq, long range remote and more gain than a lot of line stages without degradation to the DAC conversion. 

If I were going to ditch anything it would be the receiver. A high quality preamp can be a great addition to a system. A receiver does nothing but drag the whole show down.
 

The only way to know if passive is a good option is knowing the rest of his system. He needs an amp with high input sensitivity and impedance and a robust output stage in his source(s). Most dacs can’t cut it. Maybe yours can and if you prefer it that’s good. But source direct doesn’t work for most.

[Edgar]

5 hours ago, Kalifornian said:

From my experience the "affordable" dsp solutions are way too noisy for high sensitivity speakers.  It wasnt till i moved to the xillica 4080 before it all just worked and sound awesome.

 

Ideally, you keep the signal path all-digital, from source to DAC. One and only one conversion step from digital to analog, just ahead of (or even inside) the amplifiers.

[SpeedLimit]

1 hour ago, Edgar said:

 

Ideally, you keep the signal path all-digital, from source to DAC. One and only one conversion step from digital to analog, just ahead of (or even inside) the amplifiers.

Ok,  if you have only digital sources .. it's not my case.

[Edgar]

1 minute ago, SpeedLimit said:

Ok,  if you have only digital sources .. it's not my case.

 

Understood. I have phono in my system. For that, I convert from analog to digital right out of the preamp, after which it's all digital up to the amps.

[mustang_flht]

On 6/13/2021 at 7:47 AM, SpeedLimit said:

Hello mustang_flht, just a small remark, it does not seem to have heard that closing some of the vents made it possible to get more bass. It allowed me to further tighten the bass and not to go down lower in these.

But I will still try what you specified

Hi

 

it is not that there is more bass, but that the tuning of the bass-reflex vent is located lower in frequency when a vent is blocked: here for example 44hz in green with the 3 free vents and 36 Hz in red with 1 plugged vent on CWIII (note this is a simulation, the reality may be slightly different). On the other hand, there is less level between around 45Hz and 100Hz and more between 30 and 45Hz, -3db at 50Hz, but around + 6db at 30Hz.

 

 

En français : ce n'est pas qu'il y a plus de grave, mais que l'accord de l'évent bass-reflex est situé plus bas en fréquence lorsqu'on bouche un évent : ici par exemple 44hz en vert avec les 3 évents libres et 36 Hz en rouge avec 1 évent bouché sur CWIII (attention c'est une simulation, la réalité est peut-être légèrement différente). En revanche il y a moins de niveau entre environ 45Hz et 100Hz et plus entre 30 et 45Hz, -3db à 50Hz, mais environ +6db à 30Hz.

 

Mieux qu'un long discours, les courbes

 

[MEH Synergy]

6 hours ago, Shakeydeal said:

If I were going to ditch anything it would be the receiver. A high quality preamp can be a great addition to a system. A receiver does nothing but drag the whole show down.
 

The only way to know if passive is a good option is knowing the rest of his system. He needs an amp with high input sensitivity and impedance and a robust output stage in his source(s). Most dacs can’t cut it. Maybe yours can and if you prefer it that’s good. But source direct doesn’t work for most.

I didn't read enough apparently.   Yeah I would certainly ditch the receiver in that chain then. You are correct, source direct won't work for most people.   I finally found ONE that, did for me.   Happy listening.  Never heard Cornwalls that didn't have bass before.  Usually quite the opposite in fact.  

[RickD]

Crossovers with defective components? Unlikely since speakers are tested prior to shipment.

[Islander]

8 hours ago, mustang_flht said:

Hi

 

it is not that there is more bass, but that the tuning of the bass-reflex vent is located lower in frequency when a vent is blocked: here for example 44hz in green with the 3 free vents and 36 Hz in red with 1 plugged vent on CWIII (note this is a simulation, the reality may be slightly different). On the other hand, there is less level between around 45Hz and 100Hz and more between 30 and 45Hz, -3db at 50Hz, but around + 6db at 30Hz.

 

 

En français : ce n'est pas qu'il y a plus de grave, mais que l'accord de l'évent bass-reflex est situé plus bas en fréquence lorsqu'on bouche un évent : ici par exemple 44hz en vert avec les 3 évents libres et 36 Hz en rouge avec 1 évent bouché sur CWIII (attention c'est une simulation, la réalité est peut-être légèrement différente). En revanche il y a moins de niveau entre environ 45Hz et 100Hz et plus entre 30 et 45Hz, -3db à 50Hz, mais environ +6db à 30Hz.

 

Mieux qu'un long discours, les courbes

 

 

M. mustang, votre traduction est parfait.  Your English is better than my French.  As for the curves, as all engineers know, There's Absolutely No Such Thing As A Free Lunch (TANSTAAFL).  All things being equal, every gain in one area results in a loss in another area.

[Islander]

On 6/13/2021 at 4:36 AM, willland said:

 

I get the anti-tone control folks but well designed/implemented tone controls like what the Yamaha A-S1000 through A-S3200 have are really nice and the "best" I have ever used.  Tiny adjustments really can make a difference(to me) without bloating or negatively transforming the character of the amp.

 

Bill

 

Agreed.  Sometimes the sound of a room or a recording can be improved by judicious application of tone controls.  The guys in the studio control room certainly didn't hesitate to use some tone correction when they deemed it necessary.  Yes, you're after exactly whatever they locked in and finalized for the recording, but every recording will not sound the same over every system in every room, so it's no sin to do a little bit of tuning when it's appropriate.

 

If your tone controls operate in the digital domain, like in your DSP unit or sound processor, then there's even less to worry/grumble about.

[salbake]

On 6/14/2021 at 4:18 AM, Shakeydeal said:

If I were going to ditch anything it would be the receiver. A high quality preamp can be a great addition to a system. A receiver does nothing but drag the whole show down.
 

People always hating on receivers 😜. I’ve heard plenty of nice systems with separates and, IMO, my stereo receiver to Cornwall IV system sounds as good or better 🤷‍♂️. It’s just an integrated amp w/a tuner attached

[SpeedLimit]

The room is perhaps the most important ...

 

i was this afternoon near me to a guy for listening a SAE 2200 amp. It was drived by an old optonica preamp. The speakers were Klipsch RF7 MKIII, lthe cd player a T+A.  This set was very nice to listen.

I think the RF7 mkIII is not at the same level as the CW IV .. but it sounded really good. Bass was in the room, everything was fine to ear.

[Shakeydeal]

31 minutes ago, salbake said:

People always hating on receivers 😜. I’ve heard plenty of nice systems with separates and, IMO, my stereo receiver to Cornwall IV system sounds as good or better 🤷‍♂️. It’s just an integrated amp w/a tuner attached

 

Let's dissect the receiver.

 

A preamplifier

A tuner

An amplifier

Usually some gimmicky signal processing

 

All in a package of, oh let's say 40 lbs. or so. (I'm being generous)

 

That's an awful lot of stuff crammed in a box and designed to meet a certain price point. Corners will be cut, you can bet your azz on that.

 

 

Not saying it doesn't sound good to you. But you can't compare other systems in other rooms to what you hear in your room. You have to hear YOUR receiver against other equipment in the same room with the same supporting cast. Anything else is just shooting in the dark.

 

The take away here? A high quality integrated amp, or better yet, separate amp/preamp combo will outperform a receiver in the vast majority of scenarios. Receivers are like bagging groceries. You do it when you are starting out until you can get a real job. 😆

 

 

[salbake]

7 minutes ago, Shakeydeal said:

 

Let's dissect the receiver.

 

A preamplifier

A tuner

An amplifier

Usually some gimmicky signal processing

 

All in a package of, oh let's say 40 lbs. or so. (I'm being generous)

 

That's an awful lot of stuff crammed in a box and designed to meet a certain price point. Corners will be cut, you can bet your azz on that.

 

 

Not saying it doesn't sound good to you. But you can't compare other systems in other rooms to what you hear in your room. You have to hear YOUR receiver against other equipment in the same room with the same supporting cast. Anything else is just shooting in the dark.

 

The take away here? A high quality integrated amp, or better yet, separate amp/preamp combo will outperform a receiver in the vast majority of scenarios. Receivers are like bagging groceries. You do it when you are starting out until you can get a real job. 😆

 

 

https://www.stereophile.com/content/mcintosh-mac7200-stereo-receiver

 

Mine is almost double that weight. I think it sounds good. My fist next to the autoformer for size comparison. Link to Stereophile magazine review above. 🤷‍♂️
 

 

[Shakeydeal]

Understood. Most people aren't using McIntosh receivers............😁

[salbake]

1 hour ago, Shakeydeal said:

Understood. Most people aren't using McIntosh receivers............😁

I think it’s about the most underrated thing McIntosh makes. I’ve heard just about any McIntosh separate you can think of at my dealer’s showroom. (They don’t have the 901s or the 2KWs and I wouldn’t spend that much anyway). If the separates sounded better I would have purchased them. I swear “separates-or-bust” people either sell stereo equipment or already own separates 🤣.

 

That being said, I really want an MP1100, a Transrotor Zet3, and a Kiseki Purple Heart. But I’m not going to do it. I’m about $13K into gear, $2K into cables, and $6K into the speakers. It’s time to stop and enjoy. If it’s considered a bagging groceries until I get a real job type of stereo to audiophiles I’m okay with that. I’d love to hear their system, I suppose. (I bet mine sounds as good or better 😜)

[Kalifornian]

Yes indeed. And there are a bunch of threads here on how to use it as well.

[Square Ian]

OP here, hi! After living with the CWs and trying everything (within reason), including using the cardboard boxes they came in as room treatment, I realized they don’t make the kind of sound I prefer. Not with my current system anyway. I did gain a new appreciation for my Dynaudios — I feel like they sound better now, so I’ve got that going for me :). Upscale Audio graciously agreed to take them back without too many questions (“did you try putting them against the wall,” etc.) The CWs are beautiful, and really make Gillian Welch sound like she’s in the room, but they’re just not the right speaker for me.

 

I’m out $450 for the return freight fees, and spent a couple hours arranging that freight but I don’t feel too badly about that. It was good to be able to try out something very different than I have.

 

Off to their next home..

 

[SWL]

Hey...Klipsch are not for everyone. It's cool that you now have a new appreciation for your current speakers.

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