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The New Ebony Heresy Thread (In Memory of Cal): A LESSON IN GARAGE SALE ETIQUETTE


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@Travis In Austin

 And all others,

 

Please allow me to introduce the following as a larger part of the potential solution:

The seller feedback rating system option

 

I just noticed that in this entire thread, no one has yet entered into the discussion the seller feedback rating system option. IF YOU ARE THE PERSON CREATING A POLL, DO YOU SUPPORT THE CREATION OF A SELLER FEEDBACK SYSTEM > YEAH OR NAY < , SHOULD BE INCLUDED IN YOUR QUESTIONAIRE in some form. This system will allow for completed transactions and their immediate associated parties an opportunity to provide information about their own experience. Implementation will also go a long way towards our dedicated and underappreciated moderators lives be reclaimed. The only thing left then to moderate in Garage would be reports of fraudulent and unfair feedback not following the TOS.

 

I will borrow the iTrader system for an example as to how this system could be constructed, as I find it simple and effective. Plus there is a nifty pdf that goes into detail that help explain it all. READ THE PDF! linked below. I provided the pdf here for the benefit of this forum, to further along this very important discussion in a more constructive and meaningful way. Reading it and commenting here about it here will benefit everyone. The document is well written, has graphics that help you understand how it works, and is comprehensive in form. I don't have the source code, not a coder either, sorry I can't help you program it. I can help answer some questions, and provide you with more details on my own real world experience using this system. Here are some basics to explain what I am suggesting here...

 

iTrader allows you to give positive, neutral, or negative feedback to the person you transact with, as well as short comment indicative of your experience. You may wish to provide comments related to communication, speed of service or payment, packing, shipping, overall helpfulness, etc. Feedback scores are accumulative and are given a point value of either +1 for positive, 0 for neutral, or -1 for negative. Remember, according to the  iTrader feedback must be left when the trade or sale is mutually complete, not before or during the transaction. Only registered and activated users can see links.

For example:

If you are a buyer or trader, even if you are satisfied with the product in the immediate aftermath of the trade deal, it is worth waiting up to 7 days to leave feedback, in order to allow time to ensure that nothing unexpected happens with your purchase.

 

If you are seller, it would be appropriate to leave feedback within 24 hours of a successfully cleared payment; however, you are certainly welcome to wait until your buyer has left their feedback.
 
 

How To Use the iTrader Feedback System.pdf

 

Thank you all for your helpful and constructive replies to this.

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4 hours ago, Travis In Austin said:

If someone wants to step up and do a good job on a Poll,

 

Why don't YOU step up and create a poll so that it adheres to your standards, isn't slanted or personal in any way?    That way, you can control every aspect.

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I collect knives. I belong to several buy/sell pages. They all use a simple vouch system. If there is a suspected trust or scam issue, the person can ask for someone to “vouch” for them. 
 

Here are the rules from the Hinderer page:

 

Eat the meat, spit out the bones

 

——————————————————

 

This group is for buying, selling and trading Hinderer Knives. This is not a discussion group, general discussions should be held in "Rick Hinderer Knives - Users and Collectors".

General Rules:
- Be respectful and courteous.
- No pricing inquiries.
- No auction or raffle listings in this group.
- No links to other groups, forums or auctions.
- Giveaways (GAWs) need to be cleared with an admin before posting. Giveaways must be clearly defined as to who is eligible to participate with a definite end time.

 

Sales Post Rules:
- All sales posts must have a fixed price.
- Describe your item(s) accurately and include current pictures.
- The item you are selling must be in your possession.
- The original poster can only bump their thread 24 hours from the most recent post.
- The only comments in sale threads should be directly related to the item for sale (e.g., "sending a PM", "what finish is the lockside", etc.) and tagging people.  There should be no extraneous comments (e.g., "nice price", "good luck with sale", "I wish I had the funds", etc.).  If you want to follow the sales thread, select "Turn on notifications on this post.”


WTB Post Rules:
- Want To Buy (WTB) posts should use the discussion format. Responses for such inquiries should be via PM - all other replies will be removed and commenting on that post locked.  Please do not post WTB or ISO posts asking "show me what you have" or similar vague inquiries. 

Trades:
- If you have a non-Hinderer item that you want to trade, please post what you are looking for and only the name of the item that you are willing to trade and add pictures of non-Hinderer items to the comments only.

 

Violations: Any posts which violate these rules will be deleted and the member will be warned once. On the second infraction the member will be removed.

Disclaimer: Rick Hinderer, Hinderer Knives, the Admins and the group as a whole have no responsibility or liability on the outcome of any buy/sale/trade transaction.  This group is not affiliated with Rick Hinderer Knives. 

Thank you.

————————————————————

 

Isn’t it possible to lock people out of just the GS section if they don’t follow the rules?

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7 hours ago, jimjimbo said:

 

Why don't YOU step up and create a poll so that it adheres to your standards, isn't slanted or personal in any way?    That way, you can control every aspect.

Like I said, none of this matters to me. If it's important to you guys it will happen, if it isn't it won't. 

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10 hours ago, jimjimbo said:

 

Why don't YOU step up and create a poll so that it adheres to your standards, isn't slanted or personal in any way?    That way, you can control every aspect.

Having had personal success in the past in the creation of such polls on this and other similar forums, I feel like I can provide structural support for those who wish to create such a poll. One that adheres to the standards of those who also wish to provide input toward the creation of it. Like Travis said earlier, a poll about taking a poll. I have some ideas which I have previously expressed in this thread, but I don't know what everyone else is thinking. I wouldn't want to be so presumptuous to create a poll as important as this without an established time period for community input. I suggest that we all agree on getting together for some good old brainstorming, to ensure a larger representation of all of our ideas are put to work, as best as possible. I have learned that regardless of how well put together a poll is, there are always those who will respond afterward about how they would have liked to change the format of the poll. We all have that opportunity now. Now is the time to speak out about it, and not after we have a running poll.

 

I am stepping back now to allow those who wish to respond, ample space to have their time to speak and be heard. Let's all agree that we should concentrate on hearing from those free thinkers, while the rest of us have a sense of restraint where we avoid stomping on the thoughts that come in before they are even compiled. So, do we agree that this is a time for expression, not indoctrination? I mean all of this in the most general sort of way, and am in no way picking anyone out here, including the member who I have quoted here.

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I'd favor the guidelines Crankysoldermeister posted from the Hinderer page. The Garage Sale is for sales & WTB. The are multiple other places on the forum we can post our thoughts, opinions and preferences (within the TOS) other than on the Garage Sale. 

 

BTW, PS Audio did away with the marketplace section in their forum last year. I'd hate to lose this avenue because Corporate carefully reviewed the postings.

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2 hours ago, michaelwardjones said:

I'd favor the guidelines Crankysoldermeister posted from the Hinderer page. The Garage Sale is for sales & WTB. The are multiple other places on the forum we can post our thoughts, opinions and preferences (within the TOS) other than on the Garage Sale. 

 

BTW, PS Audio did away with the marketplace section in their forum last year. I'd hate to lose this avenue because Corporate carefully reviewed the postings.

 

Did they say why?

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27 minutes ago, Travis In Austin said:

That's a PS Audio listing for their transport, not a marketplace ad.

PS Audio  flushed out  the 3rd Party Sales  and Forum Member Sales , they have a Factory Direct Marketplace  , and it works .

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2 hours ago, RandyH said:

PS Audio  flushed out  the 3rd Party Sales  and Forum Member Sales , they have a Factory Direct Marketplace  , and it works .

Which has what to do with this thread exactly?

 

The comment that @michaelwardjones made was they flushed their Forum Member sales. That comment was 100 percent relevant to this thread?

 

What on earth does PS audio forum having a "Factory Direct Marketplace" have to do with this thread?

 

Are you guys playing cards?

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4 hours ago, Travis In Austin said:

 

Did they say why?

 

I never read or heard why; it was just gone when I began looking for a "new to me" network card. But RandyH may be on to something. The cessation occurred about the same time PS ended its retail relationships and took sales direct.. It would not be unreasonable if one was creating a direct sale model to remove both the current retail side and the [corparately sponsored] pre-owned marketplace. Why would you want to sponsor something that potentially cuts into your retail sales? That's why I was there: to save a few bucks off retail.

 

And that potentiality worries me here if corporate takes a close look at the forum garage sale (not to mention some of the other postings...). Humor me, but if the garage sale took just one retail sale of a pair of LSII away by someone buying used on the forum instead AND I was paying the freight for the hosting and bandwidth of that forum which facilitated that sale, I might be asking: why? Corporate needs to support (and needs the support of) Heritage retailers. The loss of that one sale may not be significant to B&H or Cory, but would be a big hit for New England Hi-Fi. Just saying.

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1 hour ago, michaelwardjones said:

Humor me, but if the garage sale took just one retail sale of a pair of LSII away by someone buying used on the forum instead AND I was paying the freight for the hosting and bandwidth of that forum which facilitated that sale, I might be asking: why? Corporate needs to support (and needs the support of) Heritage retailers. The loss of that one sale may not be significant to B&H or Cory, but would be a big hit for New England Hi-Fi. Just saying.


Maybe ….. but what about in another case a retailer sells a pair of La Scala AL5 because someone was able to sell his Cornwall lll through the Klipsch forums garage sell section.  
 

I sold my 79 Klipschorns and a Belle Klipsch so that I could afford my “Underground Jubilee” in 2006 so the garage sell section benefited me and the dealer I bought the Jubs from and kept everyone involved in the Klipsch Family so to speak. 
 

miketn 

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8 hours ago, mikebse2a3 said:


 ….. but what about in another case a retailer sells a pair of La Scala AL5 because someone was able to sell his Cornwall lll through the Klipsch forums garage sell section.  
 

Agreed and perhaps our salvation as the best marketplace to allow upgrades.

 

I am still a wee bit concerned; corporate gave us a playground and told us to play nice, but that sometimes doesn't happen and on occasion, gets personal & ugly. If I was retained by corporate to assess risk & potential liability, my first advice to them would be the shut the entire forum down. My second option would be to eliminate the lounge completely substituting a strict music section instead and to clean up the garage sale. Then I would implement active moderation to cull out repeat offenders of the terms of service. At that point, corporate accounting see my bill, ask "WTF?" perform a risk benefit analysis and i think you know the outcome of that. What we must ry to avoid is pushing them to a position where they hire an a** like me to do that.  

 

Just my opinion, which with 99 cents, gets you a large coffee at McDonald's.

 

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