MMurg Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 The final day of the 2024 PWK Birthday Bash featured the latest Chief Bonehead Class given by Klipsch Chief Engineer Roy Delgado. The subject of this class was to introduce the changes coming in the next iterations of the La Scala and Klipschorn (presumably the AL6 and AK7 respectively). We got a tease of the changes at SubFest last fall, but during this class Roy finally revealed the details. Just remember that all of this information is preliminary and subject to change. The first change is the replacement of the K-401 midrange horn. The tooling for the K-401 is finally wearing out. Instead of making new tooling for that old exponential horn design, it was decided that it would finally be replaced with a modern modified Tractrix horn, designated the K-406. This new horn is much shorter and features a 2” throat and “mumps”. The horns in the pictures are prototypes in white plastic. The final version will be the usual black color. The next change is the midrange driver to go with this new horn. This will be the large diaphragm, 2” exit KT-1133-HP compression driver used in the Klipsch Professional line. An external wide dispersion phase plug will likely be added for use with this driver before production. The last change is the replacement of the passive crossover with an active DSP like the Jubilee. This now allows time/phase alignment of all drivers. This also allowed the response to be flattened out, especially the hump in the bass bin range, allowing response to be flat down to 45 Hz. I forgot to take a picture of the two curves, one with the passive network and one with the DSP, but the difference was night and day. The curve with the DSP looked ruler flat down to 45 Hz. However, this also means that the new La Scala and Klipschorn will now require three channels of amplification per speaker. The question was raised as to whether a passive crossover network option would be offered as some buyers might balk at buying three channels of amp power per speaker. Roy said this may be an option. However, a passive crossover network will not provide the time/phase alignment and perhaps not all the response corrections made possible by the DSP. I asked Roy why he didn’t replace the tweeter and midrange horns with a single K-510 horn mated to a Celestion Axi2050 driver and make these speakers two-way active. He said he didn’t do this for two reasons. One was that the K-510 is a 500 Hz horn and would not allow proper crossover to the Klipschorn bass bin which can’t get that high. The other reason was the desire to continue the tradition of providing “upgrade kits” to allow La Scala AL5 and Klipschorn AK6 owners the ability to upgrade their speakers to the latest revision. The K-406 will have the same mounting screw hole pattern as the K-401, allowing a swap with nothing more than a screwdriver. I told Roy I’ll be first in line for any upgrade kit for my La Scala AL5 surrounds. Edit: I forgot to mention, any upgrade kits that might be offered would only be for the La Scala AL5 and the Klipschorn AK6, since only those versions have the Celestion tweeter that will be carried over to the new versions. We then got to hear demos with the new La Scala. How did all these changes sound? In a word, astounding. The improvement is dramatic. The bottom end sounds fuller, the speaker sounds smoother, and better integrated. The hint of shoutiness from the K-401 is completely gone. The improvement is as dramatic as when I head the comparison of the Underground Jubilee and the Hertiage Jubilee. When Roy later paired the La Scala with the large (18 Hz) Hertiage subwoofer prototype, the sound was as close to the Heritage Jubilee sound as I’ve heard from any other Heritage speaker. These are not your grandfather’s La Scala. I imagine the improvement will be similarly dramatic with the Klipschorn as well. Roy has certainly worked his magic once again. Roy also mentioned that the La Scala and Klipschorn DSP units may have a subwoofer out for use with the Heritage horn subs. This was how the demo with the sub was done. I can’t wait for these new versions to be released. 10 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMurg Posted March 10 Author Share Posted March 10 9 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 Thanks Michael for sharing the pictures and details of what Roy has accomplished with the continuing evolution of the awesome La Scala and Klipschorn. I certainly missed being there with all the Boneheads 🙂 miketn 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 I'll take 3 upgrade kits...please. Even though buying new Lascalas or Khorns aren't in the playing cards...yet. I love it and am excited for the change. I find it funny how some of the naysayers talk trash on Klipsch products, then these new ones come out and they're in awe, nicely done. Thanks for sharing and taking the time for a right up. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 48 minutes ago, MMurg said: I forgot to take a picture of the two curves, one with the passive network and one with the DSP, but the difference was night and day. Would love to have seen this 😀 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 Dang! I really hate that I picked this week to go off and work! Thanks for posting, Michael!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smitty8451 Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 Great news about the upgrade being available, not so good for the ol walllet 3 AL5’s to upgrade and a new heritage sub to boot, but it will be worth it!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkwa1959 Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 Did they give any idea of what the cost would be to upgrade a pair of ak-6 Klipschorns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMurg Posted March 11 Author Share Posted March 11 9 minutes ago, bkwa1959 said: Did they get any idea of what the cost would be to upgrade a pair of ak-6 Klipschorns Pricing and release dates were not discussed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave1291 Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 Thanks for the info Michael. Sounds like Roy and the boys got the mojo workin for sure. I feel like I'm in a video game and just levelled up. There goes the egg money! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gigantic Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 interesting. I'm curious to see the Frequency/Phase and impulse responses on them. It's impressive that Roy has managed to get them down to 45Hz without porting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 that's a pretty short HF section... they are nearly physically aligned. I wonder if you couldn't just get away with two channels of amplification... I should have kept my 691's... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 1 hour ago, gigantic said: interesting. I'm curious to see the Frequency/Phase and impulse responses on them. It's impressive that Roy has managed to get them down to 45Hz without porting. the LF bin hasn't changed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winglet Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 34 minutes ago, Schu said: the LF bin hasn't changed... Pro LF driver and lots of dsp? Some other Roy wizardry? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMurg Posted March 11 Author Share Posted March 11 12 hours ago, winglet said: Pro LF driver and lots of dsp? Some other Roy wizardry? Nothing has changed with the design of La Scala bass bin or the LF driver. It's how Roy is using that response with the DSP that makes the difference. He's doing something he couldn't do in a reasonably sized passive network. The native response of the La Scala bass bin has a big hump in it. Because of this, when that response is matched to the mids/highs, the -3 dB point for the bass point ends up in the low 50s. By using the DSP to flatten out that hump (i.e. cutting it down) and then matching the mids/highs to that flatter bass curve, the -3 dB point for the bass ends up in the mid 40s. I've heard the AL5 in that Hope lab listening room before. The low end of the bass wasn't great. This updated La Scala had really satisfying bass in that room. Many fewer people will hear this new La Scala and immediately think that they need a sub to go with it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 So basically...improvements can be made with different horns, different drivers and active DSP xovers...Hmmmm..who'da thunk it It's not an upgrade its a modification.... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gigantic Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 38 minutes ago, MMurg said: Nothing has changed with the design of La Scala bass bin or the LF driver. It's how Roy is using that response with the DSP that makes the difference. He's doing something he couldn't do in a reasonably sized passive network. The native response of the La Scala bass bin has a big hump in it. Because of this, when that response is matched to the mids/highs, the -3 dB point for the bass point ends up in the low 50s. By using the DSP to flatten out that hump (i.e. cutting it down) and then matching the mids/highs to that flatter bass curve, the -3 dB point for the bass point ends up in the mid 40s. I've heard the AL5 in that Hope lab listening room before. The low end of the bass wasn't great. This updated La Scala had really satisfying bass in that room. Many fewer people will hear this new La Scala and immediately think that they need a sub to go with it. Not boosting it down low, but attenuating from about 60 Hz to 300 Hz? Fascinating. I'd love to see the PEQ figures on that, not that it's useful to me, I have a completely different alignment, but it is interesting just the same. There are a number of us elsewhere who are using DSP, but we're getting more extension via DJK mods and unauthorized drivers. I'm particularly curious about the phase and group delays, whether Roy is using 6dB Linkwitz-Riley filters and natural driver roll-off, steeper slopes or a quasi-linear phase alignment. That can have a profound effect on imaging and soundstage presentation. All good stuff! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMurg Posted March 11 Author Share Posted March 11 4 minutes ago, gigantic said: Not boosting it down low, but attenuating from about 60 Hz to 300 Hz? Fascinating. I'd love to see the PEQ figures on that, not that it's useful to me, I have a completely different alignment, but it is interesting just the same. There are a number of us elsewhere who are using DSP, but we're getting more extension via DJK mods and unauthorized drivers. I'm particularly curious about the phase and group delays, whether Roy is using 6dB Linkwitz-Riley filters and natural driver roll-off, steeper slopes or a quasi-linear phase alignment. That can have a profound effect on imaging and soundstage presentation. All good stuff! Perhaps @Chief bonehead can comment on your questions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomBoh Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 (edited) So, if I'm understanding right, if one wanted to go the DSP route, it will absolutely be required to have three separate stereo power amps, one for each frequency range? (e.g. one amp driving left hf and right hf, one amp driving left mids and right mids, and one amp driving left lf and right lf)? Can't get away with, say, two amps? Even if you don't factor in the cost of tri-amping, it sounds like the inclusion of the DSP electronics will mean that these new versions will likely cost significantly more than the AL5 and AK6, which are already very expensive. Exciting but kind of terrifying in that sense. Also, will AL5/AK6 owners be able to upgrade the active DSP xover, or only be able to upgrade the horns and drivers? Edited March 11 by ThomBoh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjptkd Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 19 minutes ago, ThomBoh said: So, if I'm understanding right, if one wanted to go the DSP route, it will absolutely be required to have three separate stereo power amps, one for each frequency range? (e.g. one amp driving left hf and right hf, one amp driving left mids and right mids, and one amp driving left lf and right lf)? Can't get away with, say, two amps? All you need is 6 channels of amplification, I don't see why you couldn't accomplish this with a single 6 or 7 channel amplifier. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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