hey deano (snipers and the jub envious, STAY AWAY)

[Coytee]

another consideration is to shelve the top end of the hf. this tends to leave the crossover transition in tact.

Can you put that into English?

[Islander]

When I purchased my K-horns and Cornwall in 1965 I thought I had my dream system for life. Now with this new Jubillee I have to start this dream all over again although I wonder what would work as a center channel.

JJK

1965? You've been enjoying what you perceived as your dream system for 42 years and now the feeling is a little shaky? Count your blessings that the feeling lasted that long, brother! That's a rare and wonderful thing. I'll admit I envy you.

[mikebse2a3]

changing levels between the hf and lf is a good way to vary the hf content. another consideration is to shelve the top end of the hf. this tends to leave the crossover transition in tact.

have a blessed night,

roy

........................................

Roy just so I'm clear on this I have found the crossover transition area around 500Hz to be perfect and I didn't want to change it any and I don't want to confuse anyone. Anytime I've tried to lower or raise the gain of the low frequency amp by just (+/- .5db) versus unity gain with the HF amp I've found it "slightly" audible(especially noticeable on vocals) and in my case I always come back to unity gain settings between amps. So for me anyway the crossover area is perfect when the LF amps and HF amps are set for Unity Gain. I'm truely surprised that just .5db is noticable but it's like the Vocal is complete and whole with unity gain between amps versus being very slightly off without unity gain settings. Another way I would describe it is the vocal is completely and sharply focused with unity gain but becomes "very" slightly out of focus when the gain is changed by .5db or more. That this is even noticable is IMHO a great complement to the excellent blending/coherence you've acheived between these two Horns and this ability to blend so well is why I say this speaker sounds as if it has just one voice and the crossover point is just seemless when the amps are balanced for unity gain. Hey Roy have I mentioned before that I Love the Vocals through the Jubilee?[]

Again just in case I didn't make it clear for everyone what I have tried: I have taken each PEQ and Shelve settings starting at 1.48khz and up and lowered them by (-1db) or (-2db). I figured this was similar to doing a slight shelve of the HF without messing with the crossover area and I guess it would be easier to just do it with one shelve filter setting like you mentioned above.

Edit: Roy I experimented with the EV Race Software(I really like this EV Unit and being able to see what effects the settings have by using the Race software to visualize what I'm doing) looking at doing things the way I was versus using a High Shelve Filter(1.48khz, 6db/slope and -1db for the settings) and I do see what you mean by this having less effect around the crossover region and looks like a better way to tweek the HF slightly so I will try a High Shelve Filter next time I'm listening so Thanks for the Tip!

Roy anyway I just wanted to give you a little feedback on what I've experienced and tried and of course to get any of your thoughts on my observations/variations.

mike tn[]

Edit again: Listened for about 3 hours today Using a High Shelve Filter and it is working out great Roy so again Thanks!

[ClaudeJ1]

When I purchased my K-horns and Cornwall in 1965 I thought I had my dream system for life. Now with this new Jubillee I have to start this dream all over again although I wonder what would work as a center channel.

JJK

I'd say you came pretty darn close, since it lasted for 40 years. Hey, it took PWK 50 years to do the Jubille, and even then, it's only a little better than the Khorn on paper.

It was Khorns and a LaScala for me in 1977, but, esentially the same thing. Only difference was that you could probably use no potentiometers (just resistors) in the 2PH3 box as the center channel attenuation was built-in the Cornwall, eh?

Claude

[Deang]

Hey, it took PWK 50 years to do the Jubilee, and even then, it's only a little better than the Khorn on paper.

Interesting statement. "On paper", all the ones that I've looked at, the Jubilee looks quite a bit better -- and a couple of hours in the listening room shows that the improvement is anything but marginal.

I shot this email to Roy before I left for church today. The only thing I didn't mention was my specific thoughts on the extreme treble. Anyone worried that they might want to add a tweeter can forget it. It was the main thing I was worried about with this configuration, and all I can say is that very top sounds every bit as good as the Beyma I had been using.

Happy Resurrection Sunday Roy!

Yesterday was my first full day with the Jubilees. No one is here on Saturdays, it's the day I get to myself, and is usually spent in front of system if I don't have work on the bench. So, I was able to drive up the volume to see what they would do. I sensed the horns were running away from the LF sections, so I grabbed a handful of resistors. I started with 2 ohms, and after a few songs from a few different CD's I went straight to the 4 ohm resistors. Volume was at what would normally be near earbleed level with my Klipschorns, but the sound was nothing short of incredible: No constriction, pinching, hardening -- nothing to make me think they should be turned down -- so I turned them up more. I kept listening for compression artifacts, but there weren't any, and at no point did I sense dynamics were being restricted. I can't remember the last time I was that impressed with the performance of something -- just a solid wall of sound, well into the room -- smooth, open, clear, and the coherency was on a level that I haven't experienced in my 30 years of audio.

I decided it couldn't get any better, and that it was time for a couple of movies and pizza. I had just picked up Flags of our Fathers, and the first series of cannon volley from the battleships startled me so much the pizza box almost came off my lap -- good grief. Bass seems to go lower in my room than the Klipschorns, as low bass material in the DVD was rattling some stuff in the room. Comparing the low end performance of the Jubilee to the LaScala is laughable, and the Klipschorn can't match her control -- which is really what I think is responsible for the "speed" Mike keeps referring to. Normally, "speed" is something that can be traced to a loudspeaker's lack of low bass -- but this is certainly not the case here.

I listened from about 11 in the morning until 1:30 in the morning, and when I was finished I noticed I didn't have the tired ears sensation I normally have after long listening sessions where higher volumes are employed. In fact, when I went to bed, I put another CD in. This is the first set of Klipsch speakers I've owned that I didn't feel could be improved. Finally, they are very much Klipschorn killers -- but I suppose you and PK knew that when you finished them. I wish I could have been there when you guys realized what you'd done, and PK's sheepish grin must have been priceless.

In Him, Dean

[edwinr]

Hi Dean. Here's a link to a free downloadable CD that contains some test tones that might help you when tuning in your new speakers. I've found it very helpful when I've tuned in my speakers to my room. I use a digital spl meter that is very accurate: http://www.realtraps.com/test-cd.htm

[Arky]

Well there you have it & from the ever tweeking Mr. Wescott. I'll bet Roy isn't surprised with your thoughts.

Congratulations to Roy & PK for what must be a most excellent listening experience.

[JJkizak]

You know I am a sucker for big horns and finally checked the commercial speakers out on the forum. I also saw the super tweeter which is useless for me with my hearing stopping at 12.5 khz. I remember PWK literature saying how hard it was to bend a 30hz freq around a bend. The re-designed Jub bass bin with all of those compound angles is pretty fastenating, as Mr. Spock would say. If Klipsch says those huge mid/hf horns are good enough for theatre THX systems they are good enough for me. As I recall the well set up THX theatre sound systems had huge dynamic range and clarity and I had no trouble understanding low distant conversations. I always kind of equated the theatre THX sound with that of the Philadelphia Airport PA system in the 60's & 70's. The Thule BMEWS pa system was also excellent. (1970) But my mind does get a bit cloudy as I reach the HF portion of my life span.

JJK

[Deang]

Thanks Edwin. I have several test CD's, and also have access to an RTA. I will probably do some FR measurements in a couple of weeks, mostly because I'm curious about what's going on with the low end -- they shouldn't be going any lower than the Klipschorns, but they sure sound like they are. I can't take distortion measurements, impulse response tests, and other complex measurements (like the polars, etc.), and I have feeling that these type areas is where the gains are found. FR is just one part of why we hear what we do (I know you know that, I'm not trying to be condescending).

JJK, it's understandable that one would try to relate the sound to what one hears in a Theater, since they come from that product line -- but the sound really is so much more refined than that. They certainly have the "huge dynamic range and clarity" that you mentioned.

[gaspr]

Sounds like true love Dean. Glad to hear that you seem so pleased

with them. Bound to get a few more folks excited about stepping

up to the Jubes. BTW what are you using to drive them??

[meagain]

Wow Dean - Thanks for the review. Gee! It's nice to be able to crank them and have 'cleanliness'. I know what a nice thing that is when an improvement gives that to you.... that makes you want to turn it louder & louder. More detail, more clean... And your ramp up is a big step so I'd probably keel if I heard them?

DON'T MAKE ME WANT THESE! My husband is already bringing it up from time to time. Which is actually rather odd. He keeps saying things like "2-way.... hmmmm" and stares at a wall for a bit.

I have to go back and read what crossovers are running these and what exactly was running the modded khorns cuz my mind keeps telling me some of the improvement might be the different 'brains'?

[Marvel]

I would certainly hope the Jubilee bass is a lot better than the La Scala. Even though I can't afford them, I would still like to hear them sometime.

Lisa- you do want these and you know it. Two way systems should be much more coherent, if the drivers do what they are supposed to do and the levels are matched, this should be rather unbeatable.

Bruce

[Daddy Dee]

Dean,

Thanks for the review. I'm glad you are enjoying the Jubs. They really are amazing.

I've wanted you to hear them, in the worst way, for two years.

It's great to hear your take on those sweethearts.

[Mike Lindsey]

I'm salivating for a pair, and I haven't even heard them yet! I do love my La Scala's with the VRD's and BBX, but I know I am missing out on a beefier bottom end and thes things certainly have me licking my chops! My problem is my room (besides money at the moment), and unless I change my wall units these just won't fit. :-( So I will live vicariously thru the rest of you until I do something about it. []

Mike

[Coytee]

Six months Dean....six months.....

[]

[rigma]

Hey, it took PWK 50 years to do the Jubilee, and even then, it's only a little better than the Khorn on paper.

Interesting statement. "On paper", all the ones that I've looked at, the Jubilee looks quite a bit better -- and a couple of hours in the listening room shows that the improvement is anything but marginal.

I shot this email to Roy before I left for church today. The only thing I didn't mention was my specific thoughts on the extreme treble. Anyone worried that they might want to add a tweeter can forget it. It was the main thing I was worried about with this configuration, and all I can say is that very top sounds every bit as good as the Beyma I had been using.

Happy Resurrection Sunday Roy!

Yesterday was my first full day with the Jubilees. No one is here on Saturdays, it's the day I get to myself, and is usually spent in front of system if I don't have work on the bench. So, I was able to drive up the volume to see what they would do. I sensed the horns were running away from the LF sections, so I grabbed a handful of resistors. I started with 2 ohms, and after a few songs from a few different CD's I went straight to the 4 ohm resistors. Volume was at what would normally be near earbleed level with my Klipschorns, but the sound was nothing short of incredible: No constriction, pinching, hardening -- nothing to make me think they should be turned down -- so I turned them up more. I kept listening for compression artifacts, but there weren't any, and at no point did I sense dynamics were being restricted. I can't remember the last time I was that impressed with the performance of something -- just a solid wall of sound, well into the room -- smooth, open, clear, and the coherency was on a level that I haven't experienced in my 30 years of audio.

I decided it couldn't get any better, and that it was time for a couple of movies and pizza. I had just picked up Flags of our Fathers, and the first series of cannon volley from the battleships startled me so much the pizza box almost came off my lap -- good grief. Bass seems to go lower in my room than the Klipschorns, as low bass material in the DVD was rattling some stuff in the room. Comparing the low end performance of the Jubilee to the LaScala is laughable, and the Klipschorn can't match her control -- which is really what I think is responsible for the "speed" Mike keeps referring to. Normally, "speed" is something that can be traced to a loudspeaker's lack of low bass -- but this is certainly not the case here.

I listened from about 11 in the morning until 1:30 in the morning, and when I was finished I noticed I didn't have the tired ears sensation I normally have after long listening sessions where higher volumes are employed. In fact, when I went to bed, I put another CD in. This is the first set of Klipsch speakers I've owned that I didn't feel could be improved. Finally, they are very much Klipschorn killers -- but I suppose you and PK knew that when you finished them. I wish I could have been there when you guys realized what you'd done, and PK's sheepish grin must have been priceless.

In Him, Dean

Dean,

You beat me by a couple hours. I finished my passives about 4:00 pm today and just spent several hour listening. I just read your review and it mirrors what I found, I started with the 1 ohm resistor, then 2, then 3 and finally 4, all this before I read your review. I agree with every thing you said in your review, these things are awesome!

With the actives I felt the bass was a little boomy, that is now gone with the passives. I don't know if this is due to the active or the fact that I was using a Crown SS on the LF and now I am using my 300B for the whole speaker.

I will post more tomorrow, including pics of the passives, I am tired after about 8 hours of building and installing the passives.

Question for Roy: Can we go to 5 ohms or maybe use an autoformer? I think the HF may need just a tad more attenuation.

rigma

[ClaudeJ1]

Hey, it took PWK 50 years to do the Jubilee, and even then, it's only a little better than the Khorn on paper.

Interesting statement. "On paper", all the ones that I've looked at, the Jubilee looks quite a bit better -- and a couple of hours in the listening room shows that the improvement is anything but marginal.

I shot this email to Roy before I left for church today. The only thing I didn't mention was my specific thoughts on the extreme treble. Anyone worried that they might want to add a tweeter can forget it. It was the main thing I was worried about with this configuration, and all I can say is that very top sounds every bit as good as the Beyma I had been using.

Volume was at what would normally be near earbleed level with my Klipschorns, but the sound was nothing short of incredible: No constriction, pinching, hardening -- nothing to make me think they should be turned down -- so I turned them up more. I kept listening for compression artifacts, but there weren't any, and at no point did I sense dynamics were being restricted. I can't remember the last time I was that impressed with the performance of something -- just a solid wall of sound, well into the room -- smooth, open, clear, and the coherency was on a level that I haven't experienced in my 30 years of audio.

I decided it couldn't get any better, and that it was time for a couple of movies and pizza. I had just picked up Flags of our Fathers, and the first series of cannon volley from the battleships startled me so much the pizza box almost came off my lap -- good grief. Bass seems to go lower in my room than the Klipschorns, as low bass material in the DVD was rattling some stuff in the room. Comparing the low end performance of the Jubilee to the LaScala is laughable, and the Klipschorn can't match her control -- which is really what I think is responsible for the "speed" Mike keeps referring to. Normally, "speed" is something that can be traced to a loudspeaker's lack of low bass -- but this is certainly not the case here.

This is the first set of Klipsch speakers I've owned that I didn't feel could be improved. Finally, they are very much Klipschorn killers -- but I suppose you and PK knew that when you finished them. I wish I could have been there when you guys realized what you'd done, and PK's sheepish grin must have been priceless.

In Him, Dean

Thanks for answering my original question about the missing tweeter, since I have just put JBL 2404's on my Khorns and recapped all my AA's. I'm using twin Large VMPS Subwoofers, balance with the Avia test DVD. Other than trying to bypass the woofer choke in the AA, I think I will not attempt any further improvements to my Khorns. Maybe I'll start saving for a Jub setup in the future.

I guess when you have an expensive, metal diaphragm (quicker response than phenolic) 2" throat driver (4x the radiating area) in the "midrange where we live" with greater bandwitdh, efficiency and lower distortion in both the top and bottom. I gotta believe that, even though 2 12" motors is the same area as one 15" motor, twin motors should have better transients. Since all the money is in component performance rather the aesthetics, that in itself is more effecient, dollar-wise, for the sonic purists, eh?

I was referring to just the frequency response plots with my "on paper" comment. I'm sure that since the Jubilees do EVERYTHING 30% better than the Khorns, they have to be totally killer, since all of my Klipsch heritage speakers have kept me in the top 99th percentile of musical enjoyment for so many years.

I look forward to jumping on the Jube bandwagaon at some point in the future, but, in the meantime, I can "suffer" just fine with what I have and keep smiling. Thanks for the comments.

[rigma]

Claude,

Actually a 15" driver is 176.625 sq" and (2) 12" drivers is 226.08 sq" which is 28% more area, which is substantial..

rigma

[rigma]

Here are the networks. I built a mirror image pair.

[rigma]

Mounted to the Jub bass bin.

rigma